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The myth of Jesus' second coming

Discussion in 'Qur'anist DIR' started by Union, Oct 10, 2013.

  1. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    The accepted faith of most of the Muslims is that Jesus(pbuh) is alive in the Heaven. According to them Jews wanted to kill him on the cross and Allah raised him alive in the Heaven.

    Muslims all over the world uphold the Christian faith that Jesus(pbuh) is alive. The whole foundation of the Christian faith is rested on this concept and most Muslims overtly support their viewpoint. Somehow the Christian concept has infiltrated in Muslim faith long ago and now it seems it is part and parcel of Islamic concept.

    Muslims take the help of two sites from the Holy Quran to obtain support for their viewpoint. The verses are 3:54 from Surah Al-e Imran and 4:157-158 from Surah An-Nisa’. We will give you correct translation of the verses, word for word, so that you can get the point. It is a sad that many Muslims blame the correct translation to be false and cite incorrect translations as authentic. We will show you several examples of correct and incorrect translations so that any sensible person can find out the true picture.

    Analysis of the verse 3:54 from Surah Ale Imran

    In the verse 3:54 Allah says:

    3:54 Behold! Allah Said: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me and I shall clear you of those who reject Faith, and I am going to make those who follow you above those who reject Faith - until the day of Awakening. Then towards Me is your return, so that I shall decide among you as to in which you used to differ.

    They key words here are : Ya Isa, inni mutawaffika wa rafi’uka ilaiya

    Meaning: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me….."

    Interpretation of the word ‘wafat’:

    The key word here is "wafat" . The most correct meaning of "wafat" is death, or take away soul. If soul is taken away from a person, it is nothing but death. The problem arises with regards to this verse, when Muslims refuse to interpret the meaning of "wafat" as death. Irony is that all scholars who translated the Holy Quran do agree "wafat" means death. Each and every scholar translated the word "wafat" as death in at least 20 different instances in their translations. However, in this particular verse, they interpreted the meaning as ‘take away’ and insinuate physical ascension. These translators did not hesitate to twist the actual meaning of the word of Allah to support Christian faith and to some extent Hadith narrated by Wahab bin Munnabba, Kab Akbar and one isolated Hadith by Abu Hurairaa.

    In the verse 3:54, two conditions are stipulated about Jesus(pbuh):

    first, Allah will cause his Death,

    second, he will be raised.

    The second condition can not take place till the first condition is met. In other words, before Jesus(pbuh) can be raised, first, he must die. Let us see various translations of the same verse.

    Correct translation : "O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me…"


    The most correct meaning of the word "wafat" is death. Wherever in the Holy Quran the word "wafat" is used, all these translators derived the meaning as death, except in this verse 3:54, where they don’t see "wafat" as death!!!! What is the problem here? Why are they contradicting the meaning of 'wafat'? What stops them from translating the words of Allah in its true context? They are seeing imaginary words only to support heresy they learned during their childhood.

    Here are some of the verses in the Holy Quran where Allah used the word "wafat". The verses are 2:234, 2:240, 3:193, 4:15, 4:97, 6:61, 7:37, 7:126, 8:50, 10:46, 10:104, 12:101, 13:40, 16:28, 16:32, 16:70, 39:42, 40:67, 40:77, 47:27 etc. In each of the instances, all these scholars translated the word "wafat" as death, or a word very close to death but none of them used a word to mean take away in alive condition. Let us examine some of the verses and see how these translators derived the meaning of "wafat" in these instances.

    Verse 3:193

    Yusuf Ali: "…and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous"

    Pickthall: "…and make us die the death of the righteous."

    Khalifa: "…..let us die as righteous believers"

    Sarwar: "…let us die with the righteous ones."

    Shakir: "….and make us die with the righteous."

    Hilali & Khan: "……and make us die in the state of righteousness…."

    Farooq Malik: "…And make us die with the righteous."

    Ahmed Ali: "…And grant us (the glory of) death with the just."

    Verse 4:15

    Yusuf Ali: "…until death to claim them…."

    Pickthall: "…until death take them…."

    Khalifa: "…until they die,…"

    Sarwar: "…until they die…"

    Shakir: "….until death takes them away…"

    Hilali & Khan: "…until death comes to them…"

    Farooq Malik: "…until they die..."

    Ahmed Ali: "…until death ..."

    Verse 7:126

    Yusuf Ali: "…and take our soul unto thee as Muslims!"

    Pickthall: "…and make us die as men who have surrendered."

    Khalifa: "…And let us die as submitters."

    Sarwar: "…let us die Muslims (submitted to God)."

    Shakir: "…and cause us to die in submission."

    Hilali & Khan: "…And cause us to die as Muslims."

    Farooq Malik: "…And cause us to die as Muslims."

    Ahmed Ali: "….that we may die submitting (to You)."

    Verse 10:46

    Yusuf Ali: "…or We take thy soul…"

    Pickthall: "…cause thee to die,…"

    Khalifa: "…or terminate your life…."

    Sarwar: "…or you die…"

    Shakir: "….or cause you to die…."

    Hilali & Khan: "…. - or We cause you to die,- ….

    Farooq Malik: "…Or cause you to die…."

    Ahmed Ali: "…or take you to Ourself,..."

    Verse 12:101

    Yusuf Ali: "…take Thou my soul (at death) as one submitting…"

    Pickthall: "… Make me to die muslim (unto Thee), …"

    Khalifa: "…Let me die as submitter…"

    Sarwar: "…cause me to die as a Muslim…"

    Shakir: "…make me die a Muslim…."

    Hilali & Khan: "…cause me to die as a Muslim…"

    Farooq Malik: "… make me die as a Muslim …"

    Ahmed Ali: "…let me die submitting to You."

    You many go ahead and verify the translations of all other verses. If you do so, you will start discovering an emerging corruption (pardon me) by all the scholars. They misguided you by not translating a word correctly. Given all these facts, may we conclude that Jesus(pbuh) must die first before he can be raised?

    Some Muslims say that ‘wafat’ here means death of Jesus(pbuh) after his descent from the Heavens in the later years. Good thing is that these Muslims do agree that 'wafat' means death! Please note, the verse here clearly denotes his relationship with his own people and not with any other people of the later days. The people of the later days would admittedly be followers of Muhammad(pbuh) and not of Jesus(pbuh). [Also see: Did Allah Say Jesus(pbuh) will Come Down?]

    Cont..
     
  2. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Interpretation of the word "rafa" – to raise/to exalt:

    In the same verse 3:54 use of two words "wafat" and "rafa" may have led you to a double jeopardy. On top of that you are under constant influence of Christian doctrine. As a result you simply believe that Jesus(pbuh) did not die and instead was raised alive in heaven. In doing so, you are actually believing the Christian faith and failing to see the true teaching of the Quran. Not only that, now you are making one verse of the Quran contradict another.

    The meaning of the word is ‘to raise’, ‘to exalt’. In order to validate the Christian faith, first, you refuse to see ‘wafat’ as death, and then interpret ‘rafa’ as physical ascension. When these two incorrect interpretations are combined, you find that Jesus(pbuh) was raised to the heaven.

    Let us examine the use of the word ‘rafa’ in the Quran. The word ‘rafa’ occurred many times in the Quran conveying a meaning of spiritual honor and exaltation. Please note carefully what Allah says in the verse. He is saying that Jesus(pbuh) will be raised towards Him and not towards Heaven. So the question of Jesus(pbuh) being alive in the Heaven can not arise, because he was not raised in the Heaven. In the literal context even if we think that he was raised bodily near Allah, question comes, where is Allah? Is He ensconced somewhere in the sky, in Heaven or in a throne like a king? Didn’t Allah say that He is omnipresent – in other words, He is present everywhere? Would you say that Allah is confined in a physical body towards which He raised Jesus(pbuh)? Please answer, how can Jesus(pbuh) be raised to sky or Heaven when Allah said he will be raised towards Him. And that Allah is present everywhere (2:115); Allah is nearer to man than his heart (8:24); Allah is nearer to man than his jugular vein (50:16).

    If that be true, then Jesus(pbuh) could not have been raised physically and bodily in to the sky. If really he was needed to be raised bodily towards Allah, then he could very well stay in Jerusalem, yet be near Allah - because Allah is present everywhere and in Jerusalem too.

    This drives home the true meaning of the word ‘rafa’ – exalt in honor and/or exalt in spiritual dignity. This verse tells us that while the Jews were planning to kill him, (he will not be killed, rather) Allah will cause him to die a natural death and sanctify him against the charges of the enemies. Once again, please notice the sentence: Ya Isa, inni mutawaffika WA rafi’uka ilaiya… that is ‘rafa’ will take place only after the ‘wafat’. ‘Rafa’ after death can not mean physical ascension, but only exaltation in rank. This is more implied when the words ‘I shall clear you of those who reject Faith’ are present with it. This shows that while Jews plotted heinous crime against him, and brought him utter disgrace and condemned him as a cheat and planned to put him to a shameful death on the cross etc. Allah will instead save him and exalt him in honor and dignity.

    Since the use of the word 'rafa' raised Jesus(pbuh) alive, the use of the same word in case of other prophets must do the same thing! Ask yourself, if you know of any other prophet who was raised alive in the Heaven? None? What about Prophet Idris(pbuh)? Regarding Idris(pbuh) Allah says in Surah Maryam 19:57 as: And We raised him to an elevated state. (WA rafa’naa hu…). The use of ‘rafa’ here should prompt you to declare that Allah raised Idris(pbuh) in alive condition in the Heaven or at least to a place hanging high above. If we apply the same logic, in case of Jesus(pbuh), use of the word 'rafa' kept him alive for 2000 years; therefore the same use of the word 'rafa' in case of Idris(pbuh) must keep him alive for 2000 years or so. The problem now is about these two alive people in the Heaven – Jesus(pbuh) and Idris(pbuh). The Muslims already made stories and speculations that Jesus(pbuh) will descend from the Heaven in the later days, but what about Idris(pbuh)? Has Idris(pbuh) come down already or when is he going to descend or is he going to stay there perpetually?

    The word ‘rafa’ was used in different places in the Quran to mean spiritual honor and exaltation. Let us see some of the examples:

    Great Prophets like Muhammad(pbuh) are exalted.

    43:32 …And We have raised some of them above others in rank. (…WA rafa’ na…)

    94:4 And We have exalted for you your mention (…WA rafa’ NA…)

    Prophet Ibrahim(pbuh) has been exalted by Allah.

    6:84 ….We exalt in degrees whom We please (…narfa’u darazaa…)

    Prophet Idris(pbuh) has been exalted by Allah.

    19:57 And We raised him to an elevated state. (WA rafa’naa hu…)

    Righteous servants of Allah are raised in degrees.

    6:166 …and He raises some of you above the others in degrees…. (…WA rafa’ aa

    ba’dakum…)

    7:176 And had We wished We would invariably exalted him; …. (…rafa’naa hu….)

    56:3 It will abase it will exalt (…rafi’aah…)

    All good deeds are raised towards Allah.

    35:10 …all pure speech and all good deed, --He exalts it…. (…yarfa’uhu. …)

    House of pious Muslims are raised high by Allah.

    24:36 in (certain) houses which Allah has permitted to be raised up… (…an turfa’a WA yuzkara…)

    From this discussion we see that no where the use of ‘rafa’ meant physical ascension. However, in 3:54 verse, you would interpret physical ascension just to validate the Christian faith. Whereas, if we honestly translate the word 'wafat' as death, then 'rafa' after death cannot mean physical ascension, rather exaltation in honor.


    With this let us revisit two verses from Surah Ale Imran, 3:53-54.

    3:53 And they made plots and Allah made His plans. And Allah is the most Excellent of the plan-makers.

    3:54 Behold! Allah said: ‘O Isa! I shall cause you to die and I shall exalt you towards me and I shall clear you of those who reject Faith, and I am going to make those who follow you above those who reject Faith - until the day of Awakening. Then towards me is your return so that I shall decide among you as to that in which you used to differ.

    In case of each prophets, Allah made plans against plots made by oppressors. This is the practice of Allah to protect His messengers at the time of aggression of enemies. Allah protected Musa, Ibrahim, Yusuf, Lut, Muhammad (pbu them) to name a few. In case of Jesus(pbuh) snatching him away from the enemies and lifting him alive in the Heaven can not be called a subtle and better plan of Allah when neither was it in the power of Jews nor in the power of anybody to counter it. In fact a better and subtle plan can be designed against another plan when it is contrived in a parallel manner.

    Analysis of the verses 4:157-158 from Surah An-Nisa’

    Verse 4:157-158 from Surah An-Nisa' are the other two verses often analyzed to prove that Jesus(pbuh) did not die. Let us examine to see if the contention is valid one or a corrupt analysis.

    In the verse 4:157-158, Allah says:

    4:157 And (because of) their saying: "Surely we have killed the Masih, - ‘Isa, son of Mar-yam" the Rasul of Allah, and they could not murder him, nor could they kill him by crucifixion, but he was made to resemble to them. And verily those who differ regarding him are certainly in a doubt about him. They have no knowledge about it but are merely following a guess; and they could not kill him for certain;

    4:158 On the contrary, Allah exalted him towards Himself. And Allah is Exalted in Power, most Wise.

    …WA ma qataluhu yaqinan (157). Bal rafa’ahu-llahu ilaihi …..(158)

    The Jews always claimed that they killed the Masih, the son of Maryam. Allah is telling Muhammad(pbuh) that although they claimed that they killed the Masih, in reality they could not murder him nor could they kill him by crucifixion. Then again, in the very same verse, Allah is telling that they could not kill him for certain.

    Two types of death are being discussed here (a) a general murder (b) killing by crucifixion. The Jews wanted to cause either of the two types of death to Jesus(pbuh). Allah assures us that they failed to cause either type of death to him. The traditional Muslim faith is that since Jesus(pbuh) was not murdered or killed by crucifixion, only possibility is that he is alive somewhere!!! Muslims totally ignore the fact that Jesus(pbuh) could have died a natural death later on! If Jesus(pbuh) died a natural death, it is still valid that the Jews could not (a) murder him or (b) kill him by crucifixion.

    Cont...
     
  3. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Crucify vs. Kill by Crucifixion:

    Your strongest argument is that this verse clearly tells "…. They could not murder him nor could they crucify him….". I have checked the translation of the word "swalabu" by Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, Hilali & Khan, Rodwell, Sarwar, Khalifa and Shakir. They all translated the word as "crucify" and not "kill by crucifixion." I would not say they are wrong. To understand the word 'crucify' you will have to apply your analytical mind.

    The very intent of putting a person on the cross was to kill him as an evil or a wretched person. On few occasion if a person did not die on the cross, the Jews used to break his legs and hands and leave him to die. Jews would make sure that if a person was doomed for cross that person must die. Jews would not put a person on the cross and later let him walk away. So the meaning of crucifixion has an inherent sense of causing death thereby. Webster dictionary defines the word "crucify" as "to put to death by nailing or binding the hands and feet in a cross." In case of Jesus(pbuh) if the scholars translate the word as "crucify" they are not wrong. But if we interpret the meaning that he was never ever hanged on the cross, then we are missing the entire message. If we further say that Jehova or someone else was hanged in his place, then we are really messing up everything and failing to see the true message of the Quran.

    Please look carefully at the verse. The question of "killing" is the issue. In response to the claim by the Jews that they killed Jesus(pbuh), Allah's reply is that (1) he was not killed or murdered in the normal fashion (2) he was not killed by crucifixion. This negates the possibility of Jews killing Jesus(pbuh) in any manner whatsoever, supported by the very last sentence of the same verse: "they could not kill him for certain."


    Invention of a story:

    Although every attempt was done to prove that Jesus(pbuh) evaded death and was raised alive, because of verse 3:54, the Muslims could not prove conclusively that Jesus(pbuh) was raised alive. So they took the refuge of verses 4:157-158 to justify the belief. In order to substantiate the belief, now they invented a rambling story that has no support from the Quran. However, let us analyze the story.

    According to the story, on the eve of actual crucifixion, a different person's features became exactly like Jesus(pbuh). The Jews mistook the other person (Jehova?) as actual Jesus(pbuh) and hanged the wrong person on the cross. We don’t want to go into the debate of how absurd it is for person's features to get changed. Let us give the benefit of doubt by saying that the other person's features did not change but to the Jews it appeared so. They mistook the other person to be actual Jesus(pbuh).

    Regardless of whether this story is true or false, regardless of whether Jesus(pbuh) was hanged on cross or not, fact remains that he could not have been raised before his DEATH, as testified by verse 3:54. If he was raised alive, then the verses 4:157-158 and 3:54 are in contradiction. The Muslim scholars will never want you find out that their preaching are contradictory and that they cannot conclusively reconcile these and several other verses.

    Let me show you an extreme case of corruption. This translation is of verse 4:157, done by Hilali & Khan and published by the Saudi Government. They have placed Arabic text by the side of the English translation. Any naïve reader would think that the translation is representing the actual Arabic wordings. A naïve reader may further think that the combination of Hilali &Khan and Saudi Government must have produced correct teaching. On the contrary, it is incorrect and corrupt. You will be surprised to see the extent of manipulation. Let us examine:

    4:157 Hilali & Khan :"And because of their saying (in boast) "We killed Messiah Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," -but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Isa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)….

    Please note carefully, Hilali & Khan translated the Arabic WA lakin subbiha lahum as "but the resemblance of Isa (Jesus) was put over another man". In the actual Arabic where are the words "of Isa" and "another man"? How dare Hilali & Khan put interpolated words inside the translation and surreptitiously suggest that these were "revealed text"? Did Allah reveal these words secretly to them, because apparently He forgot to reveal to Muhammad(pbuh) (nauzubillah!!!!). Or do they mean that they know better than Allah? Please note, Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, Shakir, Rodwell, and many others did not go this extreme.

    If we leave aside the stories and concentrate on understanding the verse we will see a different perspective. In the verse 4:157 please notice carefully, WA lakin subbiha lahum means "He was made to resemble to them" or "it was made to resemble to them" or "a likeness of that was made for them" or "a similitude was made for them" -- not "someone was made to resemble him". In the sentences, "it" or "that" refers to the incident and not a person. So Jehova resembling Jesus(pbuh) can not arise. It was Jesus(pbuh) who was made to "resemble" to them. Resemble to the very issue in question here: likeness or similitude of death. The issue is not Jesus(pbuh) resembling a different person or a different person resembling Jesus(pbuh). Jesus(pbuh) was set up on the cross and he was made (by Allah) to resemble to them (as if he really died) by sending him to a comatose or fainted state.

    The Jews took a fainted or comatose Jesus(pbuh) as dead. "Verily those who differ regarding him are certainly in a doubt about him." The word "differ" here refers to the those people who, at that time and later on refuse the clarification given by Allah that "…. They could not murder him nor could they crucify him….". It is also possible that they would differ with their original contention that "Surely we have killed the Masih - 'Isa son of Maryam". Question remains, why should there be confusion if they really, positively and absolutely killed Jesus(pbuh) by crucifixion? Remains of his body should have been somewhere in Jerusalem to prove their contention. However, based on the clarification given by Allah, based on the fact that he lived till he had gray hairs (3:45, 5:40 - discussed next), based on various happenings after the incidence of crucifixion and in absence of any proof of his tomb in Jerusalem, they were in doubt whether these people really killed Jesus(pbuh) or not. This confusion among "those" people came up because after the incidence of crucifixion, they may have heard about Jesus(pbuh) talking, walking and mixing with his disciples (openly or secretly).

    If they really killed Jehova taking him to be Jesus(pbuh), then his mortal remains or tomb should have been somewhere in Jerusalem. This tomb should have come to be recognized as the tomb of Jesus(pbuh). In reality there is no tomb in Jerusalem that was ever identified or can be identified (correctly or otherwise) as the tomb of Jesus(pbuh).

    In Summary: The confusion arises because Allah said "…they did not crucify him.." What is important to understand is the word means ‘to kill by crucifixion’. The reason Jews put a person on the cross is to kill him according to their custom. They would not put a person on the cross and later let him go away. So, the word "crucify" has an inherent meaning of killing by crucifixion. Killing by crucifixion was their intent, and with this intent they did put him on the cross, however, they failed to kill him.


    Cont...
     
  4. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Many Muslims say verse 4:159 indicates Jesus(pbuh) will come back. If you think so, please read an interpretation of the verse 4:159: Interpretation of Verse 4:159.

    What Happened to Jesus(pbuh) After the Incidence of Crucifixion?

    Evidences from the Bible and other authentic history tells us that Jesus(pbuh) was tried on the cross when he was 32 years old. For the sake of debate, if Allah did not raise him alive and if he did not die on the cross, what happened to him thereafter? Are there any evidence from the Quran? Trust me, there are evidences.

    In Surah Ale Imran, Allah says:

    3:45 And he will speak to the people in the cradle and then of gray-haired age and (he will be) one of the righteous

    5:110 ... you speak to the people in the cradle and in old age.....

    23:50 ... We sheltered them in a plateau having meadows and springs.

    Various commentators of the Quran do agree about the use of words 'gray-haired age' and 'old age'. However, they contend that old age refers to the time when he will descend from the sky. As we can see from this discussion, Jesus(pbuh) was not raised alive in the Heaven and he is dead. This gray hair age must have happened while he was still living during his time, some 2000 years ago. Then Allah also tells us that Jesus(pbuh) was later on sheltered in a place full of meadows and springs. These verses supports other verses and we can further ascertain that Jesus(pbuh) survived the incidence of crucifixion and lived up to old age.

    Is Jesus(pbuh) Alive?

    All traditional Muslims join the Christians and declare that Jesus(pbuh) is alive in Heaven. Muslims say that Allah raised Jesus alive and placed him beside Himself. If that is true, then today, his age is nearly 2,000 years!!! How is it possible for a man to live that long ? A Muslim will say, why not, if Allah wishes, He can do anything. No doubt about it, yes, Allah is the Almighty, and He has the capability to do anything. But the question is will Allah do this? Will Allah break the rule of nature? Will Allah break the same rule that He has set forth? Let us investigate this issue here:

    67:3 Who has created the seven heavens in harmony. You can not see in the creation of the Rahman any inconsistency. Then turn again the gaze. Do you see any crack?

    67:4 And then turn again the search once more, the eyesight will return to you defeated, while it is fatigued.

    There are several other verses where Allah says there is no change in the course of Allah, that there is uniformity in the law of nature.

    17:77 … And you will not find any change in Our course.

    30:30 … there is no altering in the creation of Allah

    33:62 … and you will not find any alteration in the course of Allah.

    35:43 … But you will never find any change in the course of Allah and you will never find any shifting in the course of Allah.

    48:23 the law of Allah which has been in operation from before, and you will never find any change in the course of Allah.

    Which law of Allah has been in operation since before? Is it just the law of earth moving around the sun and movement of the planets and nothing more? What would you say about the law of birth, senescence and death? Don’t you agree that even birth and death are laws of Allah? That flower bloom, wind blows, day and night happen, sunrise and sunset—everything is in accordance to the law of Allah. Then Allah testifies you will never find any change in the course of Allah. Had there been a change, don’t you think Allah would have specifically told us so?

    If Jesus(pbuh) is alive in the Heaven, his age today is more than 2000 years!! How can he live that long defying rules and laws set forth by Allah? Are we not making words of Allah contradict when we say in case of Jesus(pbuh) Allah changed his law and made him live that long? This brings us to the next question: can a person live that long? Let us see what Allah has to say about it.

    16:70 And Allah creates you, then He causes you to die; and among you someone is caused to return to the worst of the age, resulting in his not knowing anything after knowledge. Allah is truly all Knowing, most Capable.

    22:5 … And of you is one who is caused to die, and among you is one who is turned back to the worst part of life until he does not know anything after having known...

    36:68 And whomsoever We lengthen life, We reverse him in constitution

    These verses tell us that whoever lives too long, Allah returns them as crippled and not knowing anything after knowledge. This is more like a cycle of life. Birth --> Infancy --> Childhood --> Adulthood --> Old age. At very old age, a person reverts to a state much like infancy, depending on assistance for almost every daily routine: eating, bath, walking, toilet etc. As if Allah reverts the person in constitution (36:68) and makes him another infant. Like an infant, at this time he does not remember things and has no knowledge of events around him.

    In this context, if Jesus(pbuh) is allowed to live that long, by now he is so crippled and in the worst part of life that there is no use of him to come back and do anything for Islam. In fact he cannot do anything worthwhile at that age.

    Thus you can see, when a Muslim denies the death of Jesus(pbuh) he is putting so many verses of the Quran to contradict each other. Most Muslims don’t realize that they are putting one verse to contradict another. When it is pointed out to them, they get so alarmed that now they try desperately to justify themselves. They successfully justify themselves, however, in the process first they invent several ridiculous stories, then they mutilate the translation to gain support for these stories and then they approach the Quran like hypocrites – believe part of it and reject part of it. They interpolate new words in translation as if these were Allah’s words and refrain from correctly translating a particular word. The Quran cannot support the stories they invent. Rather these rambling stories contradict the Quran again and again. It is sad that Muslims don’t want to believe in the total Quran.

    Proof of Death of Jesus(pbuh)

    There are several convincing proofs in the Quran regarding death of all living being and particularly all Rasuls. Most Muslim don’t like to pay attention to this for various reasons, mainly due to fear of being caught in double jeopardy regarding Jesus(pbuh) death. If one does not believe in these verses and teachings, then he is in a way rejecting part of the scripture and believing in those parts that suits him. Like a hypocrite.

    Let us begin with the verse from Surah Ma'idah where Allah says as under:

    5:75 The Messiah, son of Maryam, was none but a Rasul, surely the Rasuls have passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman and they both used to take food…

    Among other things, this verse tells two things:

    (1) Jesus(pbuh) was only a Rasul,

    (2) Rasuls before him have passed away.

    Based on this, we can interpret that since all Rasuls before Jesus(pbuh) passed away, he too will pass away. Both you and I agree to this, but the question is when he will pass away? I say he passed away after spending his normal life, you say that he is alive and eventually he will pass away when he will come back on the earth, revive Islam and so on. It is important to understand the meaning of the words ‘passed away’. If you think ‘passed away’ do not mean ‘death’, then there must be other prophets who are alive. You must specifically tell us which other prophet(s) before Jesus(pbuh) did not die and living at that time. Since we know that all prophets before Jesus(pbuh) are dead, the use of words ‘passed away’ clearly means death.

    If the above verse is not all convincing to you, let us explore another verse from Surah Ale Imran. In the battle of Uhud, prophet Muhammad(pbuh), leading the Muslim army, fell down injured. A rumor spread that Prophet has been killed. The Muslims were in despair and brokenhearted. At that moment, in order to instill confidence and boost morale of the Muslim army, a revelation came saying:

    3:143 Muhammad is no more than a Rasul, surely the Rasuls before him have already passed away. If then he dies or be killed, will you turn upon your heels?…

    Among other things, this verse tells two things:

    (1) Muhammad(pbuh) was only a Rasul,

    (2) Rasuls before him have passed away.

    In the verse 5:75, we know that all Rasuls before Jesus(pbuh) died, but right now based on this verse alone we are not sure about him. Then in verse 3:143, we further come to know that all Rasuls before Muhammad(pbuh) passed away. We already concluded ‘passed away’ in the verse 5:75 meant ‘death’. In this verse, the meaning of 'passed away' is very clearly given by Allah as (a) he dies, (b) be killed. So by 'passing away' Allah meant death and killing and nothing else. Thus we can conclude that the use of the same word in verse 3:143 can not mean anything different other than death. If Jesus(pbuh) was an exception and did not pass away, Allah surely would have mentioned it. It is not a small exception by any means.

    These two verses are so convincing and unambiguous that there should not be any doubt about his death! But alas! Muslim people have tremendous hesitation in accepting the words of Allah! The verse conclusively proves that Jesus(pbuh) who arrived more than 600 years earlier to Muhammad(pbuh) has definitely passed away.

    Remember, if you don’t believe the teaching of the verses, you are not believing the total Quran. When the verse 3:143 was revealed, if the Muslims had any knowledge that Jesus(pbuh) was still alive, they would have raised a question.

    Cont...
     
  5. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Much later, when Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) actually died, it was hard for Muslims to accept the sad news. Thinking that it was conspiracy of the rumormongers, Hazrat Umar (r) drew his sword and declared that whosoever would say that Muhammad(pbuh) was dead, he will behead him. At this critical situation, Hazrat Abu Bakar arrived, seeing the critical situation, he went into the hut of the Prophet and ascertained the truth. Then he came out and recited the same verse from Surah Ale Imran 3:143 and further declared that whosoever wants to worship Muhammad, let him know that he is dead, and whosoever wants to worship Allah, let him know that Allah is all abiding.

    This incidence conclusively proves that all the companions of the Prophet and Caliphs knew that all Rasuls before Muhammad(pbuh) had died. If the companions believed that Jesus(pbuh) was still alive, then at least someone would have raised a point here.

    If this is not enough, let us explore more verses. From verse 5:75 above, we already know that "the Messiah, son of Maryam was none but a Rasul…". Let us see what Allah tells about Rasuls in general.

    In Surah Al-Anbiya' verse 21:7-8, Allah declares:

    21:7 We did not send before you (O Muhammad(pbuh)) any but man to whom We sent revelations; therefore you ask the followers of the Reminder if you do not know

    21:8 And We did not give them bodies not taking food and neither are they abiding

    Among other things, the important findings from these verses are:

    (1) All Rasuls were human beings

    (2) Their mortal bodies sustained on food

    (3) They are all dead

    The Quran categorically tells that all prophets were human being, they were not superhuman or god. Because they were human beings, whatever is natural to a human being has to apply to them as well. All human being eat food for sustenance, so also all Rasuls were dependent on food for sustenance of their physical bodies.

    25:20 And We did not send before you any the Rasuls, but they surely ate food and walked through the street.

    Whatever applies to human being has to apply to Rasuls also. Emphasis on such mundane thing like eating food and walking on street suggest that there is nothing extraordinary in their lives. They are just like any other human being. This is true about their life and death. Once again, I must reiterate that if you don’t believe in the death of Jesus(pbuh) you are putting all these verses to contradict each other. Not only that, you are believing only part of the Quran that suits you and rejecting other part that does not fit your notions and Christian dogma.

    Yet Another Proof

    There is one verse in the Quran where Jesus(pbuh) summarizes his relationship with his people.

    The verse is from Surah Ma'idah 5:116-117.

    5:116 And behold! Allah will say: ‘O Isa, son of Maryam was it you who said to the people (-- the Christians, especially the Roman Catholic) "Take me and my mother for two deities besides Allah?" He will say: "Glory to be to You! It is not fit for me to say what is not right for me (to utter). If I had said that, You would then have known it indeed. You know what is in my mind, while I do not know what is in Your mind. Surely you are the great Knower of hidden matter

    5:117 "I did not say to them anything except about what You had ordered me, namely, "serve Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb" and I was witness over them so long as I was with them, but when you caused me to die (wafat), You were Watcher over them. And You are a Witness over all things

    This is another definite evidence of death of Jesus(pbuh). On the Day of Judgment Allah will question Jesus(pbuh) whether he taught his people to take him as a god. Jesus(pbuh) will reply that he did not teach so, and he bears witness that during his lifetime his people did not take him and his mother as gods besides Allah, but he does not know what they did after his death.

    We all know that Christians do regard Jesus as Son of God and Mary as a goddess. If Jesus(pbuh) is alive, this should not have happened. How to reconcile this verse? According to the verse, the Christians were supposed to take Jesus and his mother as deities only after his death (wafat)!! And his death is yet to happen!!!! The answer is if this has to happen, then according to the verse Jesus(pbuh) must have died. It is only after his death people accepted him and his mother as god and goddess.

    The key word here is ‘wafat’ - death. Falamma tawaffai tani - that is, ‘but when you caused me to die.’ Those who don’t want to believe in the message, translate it saying that ‘when you took me away’ thereby suggesting that when he was raised alive. Thus when Jesus(pbuh) was not with them physically, they started accepting him and his mother as god and goddess.

    This is yet another instance where the meaning of ‘wafat’ is not taken in its true context. We already discussed above that the scholars and translators of the Quran interpreted the meaning of the word ‘wafat’ as death but in one or two instances they twist the meaning and suggest physical ascension. [See: Interpretation of the word 'wafat'.]

    Did Allah Say Jesus(pbuh) Will Come Down?

    Based on two different verses you believe Jesus(pbuh) was raised bodily in Heaven. If that is so, he has to come down one day. At least you believe he will come down one day. Please show me just one verse where Allah said He will send him back. The verse should be at least as clear and precise as the those where Allah said Jesus(pbuh) will be raised. If you find one, please e-mail me back. If you think verse 4:159 is THE verse about his Second Coming, please read the following site by the same author: Interpretation of Verse 4:159 .

    There is absolutely no verse in the entire Quran where directly or indirectly Allah said anything about Jesus(pbuh) coming back later days. Since Allah did not say anything about Jesus(pbuh) coming back, where and how did you come up with the story?

    Your contention is that Allah specifically said Jesus(pbuh) was raised alive in the Heaven! My argument is in that case Allah must specifically tell us when and where Jesus(pbuh) will come down. Allah can not just leave the matter unanswered. It is a serious matter. Allah can not leave such an important and serious matter to be answered outside of the Quran by a Hadith or Christian commentary or an Islamic Fatwa.

    Brothers of Islam, please note here that in the Quran Allah has spent plenty of time and space to narrate about Jesus(pbuh), his birth, his mother Maryam, his childhood, his bringing up, his death and so on. In case of few other prophets Allah has given so much details. And then do you think Allah just forgot to mention about his coming back, especially keeping him alive for more than 2000 years?

    Cont...
     
  6. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Are you Contradicting?

    Briefly speaking, let us find out who is contradicting. If you say Jesus(pbuh) did not die, then you must admit the Quran is full of contradiction. Whereas Allah clearly told us there is no discrepancy between different verses:

    4:82 Do they not then ponder over Quran? And had it been from anyone except Allah, they would surely have found therein a great deal of discrepancy.

    86:13-14 Verily this (- the Qur-an) is a conclusive discourse, and it is not a thing of joke.

    Facts from the Quran If you believe Jesus(pbuh) is alive, then

    All Rasuls before Muhammad(pbuh) passed away (3:143) This is a serious contradiction

    Meaning of the word ‘wafat’ is death in more than 20 different verses in the Quran Use of the word ‘wafat’ in 3:54 and 5:117 are serious exceptions and contradictory.

    Christians would regard Jesus(pbuh) and his mother as God ONLY after his death (wafat) (5:116) The verse is contradictory since the Christians have been considering Jesus(pbuh) and his mother as god for a long time.

    Laws of Allah has been in operation from before (48:23) He has defied the law and put the verse in contradiction

    You will not find any alteration in the course of Allah (33:62) This is a serious alteration in the course of Allah. A man is alive for over 2000 years. The verse is contradictory.

    Several verses say there is no inconsistency in the law of nature and law of Allah (67:3-4; 17:77; 30:30; 33:62; 35:43; 48:23) All these verses are in serious contradiction - for no man can live that long!!

    Allah will first cause Jesus'(pbuh) death and then raise him (3:54) How did he get raised before his death? This is a serious contradiction.

    Whomsoever Allah grants long life - He reverts them to worst age and the person forgets all the knowledge (16:70) By now Jesus(pbuh) has no knowledge of anything at all. How can he come back and do any good for Islam?

    All Rasuls before Muhammad(pbuh) are no more abiding - or alive (21:8) This verse is in serious contradiction.

    Mortal bodies of all Rasuls sustained on food (21:8). Somebody must tell who is providing food for Jesus(pbuh)

    Whomsoever Allah grants long life, He reverts them in constitution (36:68) Jesus(pbuh) must have been reverted in constitution - he is fragile, crippled - dependent on others like an infant.

    There is no inconsistency in the creation of Allah. The more we search for inconsistency, the more the eye will come back fatigued, but we won't find any inconsistency (67:3-4) This itself is the biggest inconsistency in the creation of Allah. A man is living for 2000 years!! The eyes are not fatigued yet, but we seem to have found utter incoherence in Allah's words!!!

    It is up to you to summarily reject the arguments because it appears like a Qadiani or Ahmadiya debate. Once again I am reminding you, you don’t have to become a Qadiani or Ahmadiya to believe in the total Quran. In order to reject the Qadianis or Ahmadiyas, you are trying to burn your own house. For one brief moment, can you leave the Qadianis alone and think over the whole message. How come the way you understand the Quran cannot justify two verses, how come they way you understand the Quran is full of contradiction, how come the Quran is full of so many mismatch?

    Once again, I will request you, go back to the content of the table above, and first justify each of the verse.

    The Great Dilemma

    I know in spite of all the discussion, it is extremely difficult for you to come out and accept the truth. Deep inside something is prohibiting you from accepting the logical discussion. Many of you will say all these are wrong interpretation. Your mind will prompt you to say these are falsification of the teaching of the Quran. Please read again and tell me which part is false, where did I misguide you, where is the forgery. There is no forgery.

    That is why I requested you to have a hard copy of the page handy so that you can go back again and again to check each analysis. There are other sites mentioned at the bottom of the screen, please read those topics too.

    Please think about it: If you do not believe that Jesus(pbuh) is dead, then you must come up with concrete evidences from the Quran and only from the Quran. You must conclusively reconcile all the verses that I mentioned in my discussion. Please don’t say such and such scholar told that he is alive!!!! Please don’t say such and such book clearly tells that he is alive!!!! Please don’t say such and such Fatwa testifies that Jesus(pbuh) is alive!!!! To validate the words of these scholars, are you going to shatter the words of Allah? Please don’t give greater value to a man-made book over that of divine scripture.

    Please have courage to accept the truth. It has nothing to do with Qadianism. You are not converting in to Qadiani faith. This is not a Qadiani propaganda.

    Last of all, what about the prophecy that Jesus(pbuh) will come back to the earth in the later days and revive Islam? After the above discussion, we can conclude that a dead person can not come back no matter what. This is against the principle of Islam. The Original Jesus(pbuh) - the prophet can not and will not come back in the later days. Period. However, in fulfillment of various prophecies, it is possible for another person to come Jesus's spirit and do something for Islam. This is outside the scope of current debate.

    Conflicting Hadith:

    Many readers responded back with several Hadith narrating Jesus(pbuh) will come back and do something. The readers are unable to discard those Hadith or justify their validity.

    If we take the literal meaning then these Hadith fails to satisfy the common sense. However, most of these Hadith may be interpreted in allegorical sense and not in their literal sense.

    A few absurdities are: Jesus will fight with a sword (in 21st century or later! Come on, give me a break.); Jesus will land on the Minaret (why not on the ground); Jesus will kill a swine and break a cross (what purpose will it serve, or does it mean one swine and one cross is standing in the way of Islam? Or will he kill all the swine in the world and break all the crosses, a formidable job indeed.); Jesus will end the jijya (where is jijya practiced today, is it in Syria? Then why not stop it before his advent, so that his mission will be easier. Does it mean he will confine his mission only to Syria? What about the fiscal policies of the rest of the countries, will he interfere with them?).

    The Dajjal is viewed by many as an individual. Jesus is supposed to kill the Dajjal. The attributes of Dajjal-the individual fail to satisfy any reasoning. Quran is not very clear about Dajjal (Gog and Magog). Dajjal will be faster than cloud, he will command barren land to grow vegetables, on his command milch animals will produce abundant milk, he will occupy most peoples house, he will command the sky and rain would fall, his followers will live in abundance etc. statements are probably NOT referring to an individual, rather a government, a superpower or may be a system. It could very well be America. Please recollect all the attributes of Dajjal and see if you can find likeness with what is happening in America and what the government practices there. Many scholars indicated similar notion. They think Dajjal would not be a singular individual, rather a superpower government or country. I leave this debate up to you.

    The purpose of the article is not to discuss the Dajjal rather drive home this point that Jesus(pbuh) is dead.

    Excerpts from : Jesus : Dead or Alive ?
     
  7. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Another good article to prove from Qur'an that Jesus is dead .

    The Holy Quran emphatically proves that Jesus has passed away like other mortal human beings, and is no longer alive anywhere. It clearly states that Jesus possessed only human characteristics, and was in no way divine but a servant of God and his messenger. From birth to death, he was subject to all the physical and biological limitations that God has ordained for human beings.

    First evidence: All human beings live and die in this world.

    Prophets belong to the human race, and they are, therefore, subject to the eternal Divine law that human beings live and die in this world. The Quran states :

    "Therein (i.e. on the earth or physical world) shall you live, and therein shall you die, and therefrom shall you be raised." (7:25)
    "And there is for you in the earth an abode and a provision." (7: 4)
    "Have We not made the earth draw to itself the living and the dead." (77: 25, 26)
    "From it (i.e. the earth) We created you, and into it We shall return you, and from it raise you a second time." (20:55)
    In these verses God has set forth His law that all human beings shall live their lives, with their physical bodies, in this world. Furthermore, it is opposed to the Divine law, according to which prophets have to bear persecution here in this world, that Jesus should be raised up to heaven when he was opposed by the Jews. His supposed physical life in heaven for two thousand years without food or drink is also opposed to the Divine law expressed in the above verses.

    Second Evidence: Physical life depends on food and drink.

    God has described His law, applicable not only to ordinary people but to all prophets as well, that life depends on food and drink:

    "We did not send before you (O Muhammad) any messenger but they surely ate food." (25:20)
    "We did not give them (i.e. the prophets) bodies not eating food." (21:8)
    Of Jesus and his righteous mother, it is stated : "They both used to eat food" (5:7). So if Jesus no longer eats food — all Muslims hold that he does not eat food in heaven — he cannot, by the Divine law stated above, be alive with his physical body. The body requires food, so Jesus no longer eating food must be dead.

    Third Evidence: Human body suffers ravages of time.

    There is not a single human body in the world which is impervious to change. The living body is necessarily changing all the time. The Quran states:

    "And We granted abiding for ever (khuld) to no mortal before you (O Muhammad). If you die, will they abide (khalidun)" (21:34).
    "They (i.e. the prophets) did not abide for ever (khalidun)" (21:8).
    As regards the meaning of the word khulud (translated above as abiding for ever), the famous Quranic dictionary of Imam Raghib explains:

    "Khulud is that a thing be immune from decay, and that it endures in an unchanging condition. The Arabs call such a thing khulud... i.e., to persist in one condition, not being subject to change" (pp. 153, 154).

    According to Arabic lexicology, therefore, khulud signifies persistence in one and the same state, with no change or decay taking place. In the verses above, a Divine law has been explained under which every person is affected by the passage of time. He is first a child, then an adult, then old and finally he dies. This is corroborated by many other verses, for example:

    "Allah is He Who created you from a state of weakness, then gave you strength after weakness, then ordained weakness and hoary hair after strength." (30:54)
    "Of you is he who is brought back to the worst part of life (i.e. old age) so that after knowledge he knows nothing." (22:5)
    "And whomsoever We cause to live long, We reduce to an abject state in creation. Do they not understand?" (36:68)
    A general law of God has been stated here, to which no human being is an exception. From being a child, a person develops physically to attain his fullest development. After that he begins to decline, and ultimately reaches his ‘second childhood’ when he loses all his former attainments.

    If, for the sake of argument, Jesus were to return to this world, he would be about 2000 years of age, and hence, according to the above Divine law, too old to be capable of doing anything at all. In fact, it is certain that, under this law, Jesus died a very long time ago.

    Fourth Evidence: Death of all Prophets

    "The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; messengers before him had indeed passed away." (5:75)
    "And Muhammad is only a messenger — messengers have already passed away before him. If, then, he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels?" (3:143)
    The second verse here explains the first one. Both verses are similarly worded, the first referring to Jesus, and the second to the Holy Prophet Muhammad. The Quran’s verdict here is very clear for a truth-seeker. The first verse explicitly states that all prophets before Jesus had died — and all Muslims accept this. In the second verse, the same words are used to state that all prophets before the Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him) had died. In fact, since no prophet arose between Jesus and the Holy Prophet, the second verse could only have been revealed specifically to show that Jesus had died. Classical works of Arabic grammar tell us that, owing to the prefix al (the), the word messengers (al-rusul, lit. "the messengers") in the above two verses really means all messengers (see Bahr al-Muhit, vol. 3, p. 68).

    Meaning of khala

    It should be remembered that the word khala (translated above as "passed away") in the past tense without a particle, when used about human beings, refers to their death (see Lisan al-‘Arab and Aqrab al-Mawarad). In the Quran too, whenever the words qad khalat without the particle ila are used about any persons, the meaning is that they passed away and died, and will not return to this world. For instance:

    "Those are a people that have passed away (qad khalat)." (2:134)
    "…before which other nations have passed away (qad khalat)." (13:30)
    "…among nations that have passed away (qad khalat) before them." (46:18)
    "Such has been the way of Allah with those who have passed away (khalat) before." (33:38)
    In interpreting the two verses about all prophets before Jesus and the Holy Prophet (may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him) having passed away, the commentators have generally adopted the same meaning:

    "The Holy Prophet would leave the world as had done previous prophets, by natural death or murder." (Qanwa ‘ala Baidawi, vol. 3, p.124)
    In fact, the above verse about the Holy Prophet (3:143) itself clarifies the meaning of khala (passing away of all previous prophets) by using the words "if he dies or is killed" with regard to him. Obviously, the "passing away" of all previous prophets must also be one or other of "dying" or "being killed".

    Cont...
     
  8. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Fifth Evidence: All "gods" are dead

    All those who are taken to be gods besides the One God are described by the Quran as "dead":

    "And those whom they call on besides Allah created nothing, while they are themselves created. Dead (are they), not living. And they know not when they will be raised." (16:20-21)
    And as to Jesus being taken for a god, the Quran itself bears witness:

    "Certainly they disbelieve who say: ‘Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Mary’." (5:72)
    These verses prove conclusively that Jesus, who is taken to be ‘god’ by a large section of mankind and is called by them as "Lord Jesus", must have been dead when these verses were revealed. Otherwise, this exception would have been mentioned here.

    After amwat — "Dead (are they)" — the words ghairu ahya’-in — "not living" — clarify the matter absolutely, and re-affirm the death of these "gods".

    Sixth Evidence: Jesus’ second coming contradicts Finality of Prophethood

    Jesus’ coming again into this world would infringe the principle of the Finality of Prophethood because the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him) is the last and final prophet according to that principle. The Quran says:

    "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last of the prophets." (33:40)
    The Holy Prophet’s being the last prophet (Khatam an-nabiyyin) necessitates that after him there should not appear any prophet, neither a new one nor a former one. Just as the coming of a fresh prophet would infringe the Finality of Prophethood, so would the appearance of a former prophet, because the Last Prophet is the one who appears after all other prophets. If Jesus comes after the Holy Prophet, he (Jesus) would be the Last Prophet, the Khatam an-nabiyyin.

    It is wrong to argue that, in his supposed second coming, Jesus would not be a prophet (nabi). For the Quran says:

    "Jesus said: I am a servant of God: He has given me the Book and made me a prophet, and made me blessed wherever I may be." (19:30-31)
    So, were he to return to this world he would still be a prophet. His coming without prophethood would be meaningless, for the task of leadership of the Muslims (Imamah) and successorship to the Holy Prophet (Khilafah) could be performed by a member of the Muslim community. Hence it stands proved that Jesus died, as did all other prophets, and that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him) is the Last Prophet.

    Seventh Evidence: Holy Quran specifically mentions Jesus’ death

    Having explained so many general principles on the subject of life and death, it was not necessary that the Holy Quran should speak specifically of the death of Jesus. Nevertheless, Almighty God has particularly mentioned Jesus’ death in the Quran. When the Jews succeeded in their plans to have Jesus sentenced to crucifixion, he prayed to God to be delivered from this fate, and was answered by Him thus :

    "O Jesus, I will cause you to die, and exalt you to My presence, and clear you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve till the day of Judgment." (3:54)
    Here God made with Jesus four promises:

    "Cause you to die" (tawaffa), i.e., Jesus would not be killed by the Jews, but would die a natural death.
    "Exalt you in My presence" (raf‘a), i.e., he would not be crucified, which the Jews sought to do to prove him accursed, but rather he would receive Divine nearness. In fact, raf‘a is the opposite of wad‘a, the latter meaning disgrace and the former meaning honouring.
    "Clear you of those who disbelieve" (tathir), i.e., he would be cleared of the Jews’ allegations against him, as he was by the Holy Prophet Muhammad.
    "Make those who follow you above those who disbelieve till the day of Judgement", i.e. his followers would forever have the upper hand over his rejectors.
    The above verse proves that Jesus has died, for raf‘a (exaltation to God’s presence) is attained only after death when all the material veils have been removed. Every righteous person is granted raf‘a to God after his death. The Holy Prophet has said:

    "When a believer nears death, angels come to him. So if he is righteous, they say: ‘O pure soul! leave, you were in a pure body’ … So that pure soul comes out, then they take it to the heavens and its gates are opened for it." (Mishkat).
    Hence, whenever a righteous individual dies, the angels take his soul up to heaven. The very same happened in Jesus’ case, so that after his death it was his soul that was raised to heaven, and he joined the ranks of the righteous among the dead.

    Thus God fulfilled all the above promises in order: He rescued Jesus from the hands of the Jews, and eventually granted him a natural death; after his death, God honoured his soul with Divine nearness; He cleared him of the Jews’ allegations against him through the Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him) and He gave Jesus’ followers the upper hand over his rejectors.

    Eight Evidence: Christians went astray after Jesus’ death

    Jesus’ statement, on the Day of Judgment, that his people made him a "god" after his death, is recorded in the Holy Quran as follows:

    "And when God will say: ‘O Jesus, did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides God?’ He will reply: ‘Glory be to Thee! it was not for me to say what I had no right to say. If I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. Surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen. I said to them naught save as Thou didst command me: Serve God, my Lord and your Lord; and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die Thou wast the Watcher over them. And Thou art Witness of all things’." (5:116, 117)
    This extract proves the following:

    Jesus shall deny preaching the erroneous present-day Christian doctrine of his divinity;
    He shall confirm the teaching he actually gave to his people;
    So long as Jesus was among his people, his followers held correct beliefs;
    It was after Jesus’ tawaffa (translated above as ‘Thou didst cause me to die’) that their beliefs became corrupted.
    Meaning of tawaffa

    Lexicons of Arabic tell us that tawaffa Allahu fulan-an, i.e., ‘God did the act of tawaffa to such a one’, means that God took his soul and caused him to die. This is the meaning given in Taj al-‘urus, Al-Qamus, Surah, Asas al-Balaghah, Al-Sihah and Kullyat abi-l-Baqa.

    In the above verse, Jesus speaks of two distinct periods of time. The first one is mentioned in the words "so long as I was among them", and the second one when only "Thou wast the Watcher over them"; ‘them’ being Jesus’ people, the Christians. The first period (that of Jesus’ presence among his people) changed into the second period (that of only God, not Jesus, being their watcher) as a result of tawaffaitani or "when Thou didst cause me (Jesus) to die".

    Now according to the above verse, the Christians held right beliefs in the first period, and wrong views in the second. As the Quran tells us repeatedly, and as all Muslims believe, Christian beliefs had become corrupted (or, in other words, the second period had begun) by the time of the advent of the Holy Prophet. So Jesus was dead by that time, as the second period was to come after tawaffaitani or the death of Jesus.

    Summary

    According to the Holy Quran, Jesus holds no more than the following three positions:

    He is a mortal from among mortals;
    He is a prophet of God from among the prophets;
    He is one of those who is worshipped as god by some people.
    The Jews believe him to be an ordinary mortal, while the Christians worship him. The Muslims accept him as one of God’s prophets. The Quran has proved Jesus to be dead with respect to each one of the above three positions.

    1. Jesus as an ordinary mortal:

    The Quran states:

    "We have not made before thee (O Muhammad) any mortal to abide for ever. If you die, will they (the opponents) abide?" (21:34)
    This verse shows that the human body is never immune from change, and that it must live and die here in this world. As Jesus too was human, he must be subject to the laws God has established for men. Therefore, under the Quranic law "every soul must taste of death", he has died.

    2. Jesus as a prophet:

    "And Muhammad is only a messenger —messengers have already passed away before him." (3:143)
    This verse proves the death of all previous messengers by the time of its revelation. Jesus was thus dead by that time.

    3. Jesus as a supposed Deity:

    As regards all those who are taken for gods besides Allah, the Quran tells us:

    "Dead (are they), not living. And they know not when they will be raised." (16:21)
    It is universally known, and confirmed by the Quran, that Christians believe Jesus to be divine and call to him in their prayers. So, according to the above verse, Jesus is dead and "will not answer them till the day of Judgment."

    Hence it is fully and conclusively proved that Jesus died long ago, and belief in his continued life is against the clearest teachings of the Holy Quran.

    Excerpts from : The death of Jesus - 1
     
  9. W3bcrowf3r

    W3bcrowf3r Active Member

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    They said they killed and crusified him, but they didnt since Christ was Resurrected three days later.

    Context is key. And i wouldnt dive into this topic if you dont know Arabic and Greek. Else you will have a chance of being wrong no mattrr what

    He is the firstborn of the Resurrected. And cant die anymore. He will be protected by God if he Heavens and earth will be destroyed and when there will be made new ones. And he is not the only one who will stay alive in the presence of God.

    We will be Resurrected at the new creation.

    Read the Gospel. And read the Quran in 5:68 if you are anti Gospel.

    Peace was with him when he was born, when he died and when he was resurrected. That doesnt mean he will be resurrected twice. It actually confirmed that Christ wont die anymore and already has eternal life. Since the Gospel clearly talks about hes Resurrection.


    Similarly John the Baptist. Which indicates that he is also already in the presence of God.

    Moses and Eliah where risen from the death as well. Read the Gospel.

    Enoch was risen as well to Heaven. Read the Tora and Gospel.

    Melchizedek, another example in the Tora and Gospel..

    So there is a difference between us and them. They have their own path. And we have our own.

    Some topics are just hard to grasp. Because people think there is only 1 resurrection with everyone and everything at the same time. But if you study the Tora, Psalms, Gospel and Quran. You will find out that God has different plans with some chosen ones.
     
  10. W3bcrowf3r

    W3bcrowf3r Active Member

    Joined:
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    Have you read the Injeel? Read the Quran 5;47 and 5;68, Muhammad is telling them to Judge with the Gospel and uphold the Tora and the Gospel.

    This whole anti Bible movement is just created by the sectarian muhaditheen and their followers.

    About Jesus Christ. The Gospel talks about how He will come in the clouds.

    I believe it's either in this life, or on the Day of Judgement.

    I am still learning Greek. So i am still wondering, since the translations are made by sectarians.

    I believe Christ was crucified and murdered. I believe people are misunderstanding the Quran. Read the Gospel, he sacrificed himself as the Lamb for the sins of others because he loves them and want them to repent. The sectarian Jews and Romans were boasting with the crucifixion and how they killed him. So context is key.

    But God raises Jesus Christ 3 days later from death. And he is now sitting in Heaven at the Right Hand of God, says the Gospel. He wont die again, he is already resurrected. The firstborn of the resurrection.

    If you dont read the Gospel. This topic will be really hard to grasp.
     
    #10 W3bcrowf3r, Oct 13, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
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