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Featured The Most Plausible of Islam's Claims: The Qur'an's Linguistic Prowess

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Debater Slayer, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. atanu

    atanu Member
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    I cannot judge the poetry of Holy Quran.

    What I understand about all scripture is that they point to what mind-senses cannot know. For example, Holy Quran repeats very often "Allah is the seer of all. Allah is the knower of all." I think that a very small proportion of people comprehend what that means. And so with the Bible and the Vedas.
     
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  2. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    I am looking at the very existence of the Quran itself when forming my position.
     
  3. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    But the most important part of this thread, for me, is WHY IS GOOD WILL HUNTING EQUATED WITH DEAD POETS' SOCIETY?

    :p
     
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  4. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    And, aside from one very ambiguous passage where it is possibly mentioned, what about the very existence of the Quran makes you highly confident that Muhammad was illiterate?

    The Quran itself acknowledges that the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." As such it is theologically very convenient to make the claim that he was illiterate, as many theologians have. However, gentile, or perhaps more specifically Arab seems to fit a lot better as 1) previous prophets (at least since Moses) had all been Jews 2) the Quran emphasises its "Arabicness" 3) the language used:

    The phrase is al-nabi al-ummi, you might have heard Muslims refer to the ummah, the community of Muslims.

    In Hebrew, umma signified a 'nation of Gentiles,' or non-Jews, implying by this the idea of 'peoples who did not have a Scripture and did therefore not read it.'

    Ibn Abbas: the term ummiyyun refers to all Arabs, i.e., those who did write and those who did not; [they were called in this way] since they were not People of the Book.

    Tabari: He [it is who] sent a prophet to the ummiyyun, who was from amongst them;' [the expression 'from amongst them'] means 'from amongst the ummiyyun.' Furthermore, it is said 'from amongst them' because [Muhammad] as [an] ummi, [i.e.] arising from the Arabs.1

    There are no incident in the Quran of the term ummi or related terms meaning 'illiterate'. Source

    So what makes you so confident?
     
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  5. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Chinese isn't really that "hard"... it's the reading part that people are really scared of.
     
  6. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    The short psalms of the Bible are remarkable

    psalms 117 (2 verses) an invitation to the nations to enjoy the covenant goodness of God and worship God and prelude to the song Jesus sang after the last supper which is also followed by the longest psalm 119
    psalms 131 133 134 ( 3 verses) three short psalms remarkably packed, muddle around and highlight the longer psalm 132 to remember the sufferings of David

    One rhymes, one is full of paradox, all pack a great deal into a small package. Some are like staccato notes to give a little punch to some flow of thought in the psalms around them. They also frequently contain ideas found in the sermon on the mount, punching important points.

    but a good sampling is the12 shortest here:
    Discussion guide week 12 - Psalm 117
    Discussion guide week 11 - Psalm 100
    Discussion guide week 10 - Psalm 93
    Discussion guide week 9 - Psalm 134
    Discussion guide week 8 - Psalm 133
    Discussion guide week 7 - Psalm 131
    Discussion guide week 6 - Psalm 127
    Discussion guide week 5 - Psalm 125
    Discussion guide week 4 - Psalm 123
    Discussion guide week 3 - Psalm 15
    Discussion guide week 2 - Psalm 70
    Discussion guide week 1 - Psalm 43

    A comparison with short passages from other religious views would be interesting
     
    #66 whirlingmerc, Dec 3, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  7. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    You are flipping the question I am addressing.

    The question I was addressing: What is most reasonable to believe about the origins of the Quran; is it the most reasonably the work of human creation alone or is it more reasonable to believe it is the work of a human with spiritual inspiration?

    The question you are now asking: How does the Quran show Mohammed to be illiterate?


    Anyway, I believe that the literary genius described in the OP after listening to discussions for decades now, is most reasonably explained as being revealed/inspired/channeled.
     
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