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Featured The Mormons are being sued for doing the right thing:

Discussion in 'Religious News' started by Subduction Zone, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. SoyLeche

    SoyLeche meh...

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    From the handbook of instructions (a compilation of church policies) book 2 (publicly available). There is certainly more detail in book 1, but that is only available to certain leadership positions - and I’m not in one of those at the moment.

     
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  2. gnomon

    gnomon Well-Known Member

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    Depends on how the Church reacted.


    Utter nonsense.
     
  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The church turned him in. He was found guilty of child rape and sentenced for 15 years.
     
  4. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Utter sarcasm would be more like it, gnomen.
     
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  5. gnomon

    gnomon Well-Known Member

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    Ya'll are quick. I wanted to delete what you nailed my post was.

    I apologize.
     
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  6. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I've never been to confession myself, but I've been told it doesn't work the way you describe.

    ... but the scenario you describe sounds very strange:

    - this church offers mental health supports to predators who confess crimes.
    - the church apparently doesn't try to connect its parishioners with mental health supports outside of confession.

    ... and stays in what he considers to be a state of mortal sin? He prefers Hell to prison?

    So for the predator in this scenario:

    - his faith is important enough to him to care about confession, even if there's a significant cost associated with it (i.e. pressure from the priest to confess, which would end up with him in prison).

    - his faith is unimportant enough that he'd abandon confession if there was a somewhat higher cost associated with it (i.e. prison from the priest reporting him).

    - his faith is also so unimportant that the idea that a sin is effectively unpardonable wouldn't stop him from committing the sin.

    This seems like a very narrow category of predator you've imagined up.

    I don't think either scenario is particularly realistic, so the question's moot.
     
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  7. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    To me, the only important goal is preventing immoral behavior. In this thread we're talking about a particularly heinous crime, child molestation. But it isn't the only criminally immoral behavior anybody confesses to having committing.

    Where do you think a line can be drawn? At what point does making the clergy law enforcement officials become counterproductive?
    Tom
    Unless I misunderstand, quite possible as we all know, the church is not being sued for turning him in.
    LDS is being sued for not sufficiently explaining to him that they turn in child molesters.
    The difference is very important.
    Tom
     
  8. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Oh.
    Now I understand your opinion.

    Dunning Krueger.
    Got it.
    Tom
     
  9. The Hammer

    The Hammer Virtue, Piety, Study

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    But can you win.
     
  10. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    :rolleyes:
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    i would draw the line at property crimes.

    And it was rather foolish to assume that he would not be turned in.
     
  12. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    How much authority does your opinion hold amongst Mormons?

    Why?

    People who seem to know very little about confession are the ones with the clear and simple opinions.
    Tom
     
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  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    None, but you asked.

    Because this is not the Catholic church, the Mormons do not go by the Catholic rules for confession. Did you read the linked article? Their standards were made clear.
     
  14. SoyLeche

    SoyLeche meh...

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    I agree that this is the issue. I posted the church’s published policy though, which he had access to at any time. I would hope that would indemnify* the church.

    * I’m not a lawyer - I’m not sure if that’s the right word.
     
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  15. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Post #41

    Yes, I agree.
    You have demonstrated it well.
     
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  16. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Hells Bells, I ain't even a Mormon and I knew about the linked policy.
     
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  17. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't know how anybody...especially any LDS...could claim that s/he doesn't know about the 'mandated reporter' thing.

    One really shouldn't go to a Bishop to confess something unless one is willing to do the WHOLE repentance thing. Telling the Bishop and putting HIM in an ethical/moral dilemma is simply adding to the problem, We don't believe that a Bishop can exonerate or pardon one. It's part of the process, but 'restitution' and asking for forgiveness from the victim...and willingness to pay any legal consequences of one's actions has always been a part of repentance. One simply cannot go to a Bishop and say "I killed my wife/abused my kids/robbed the bank/whatever" and expect the Bishop NOT to report this to the police. IMO, the most he should say is "Fine, we can help you through this, but if you don't turn yourself in by...say...Friday, I'll have to report you to the police."

    This policy is very clearly stated in our policies, on LDS.org...just about any place one cares to look if one is thinking about this. As someone else has noted: the job of our leadership (bishops) is to help with the repentance process...NOT to hide things from those who may have been harmed, or from the authorities. I know of very few LDS who do NOT understand this, except, perhaps, this man and his wife. Who are being terminally stupid.
     
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  18. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    So was this guy supposed to go to his bishop and ask, "Bishop, I have a question for you... a hypothetical question, mind you. If I knew of a member of the Church (it's actually a friend of my brother-in-law's next-door neighbor) who was molesting his daughter, and if you were his bishop, what would happen to him if he were to confess this to you?" At any rate, I think I already pretty much answered this objection in a prior post. I'm assuming the offender was an active, practicing member of the Church. If so, he had no excuse for not knowing what was going to happen to him.
     
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  19. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Perfect answer. This post probably won't, but should, lay the matter to rest.

    Either that, or maybe both of them were crazy like a fox (or "stupid like a fox," as Homer Simpson might say). Man molests his daughter. Wife learns of the abuse and confronts him. Both know what this means and what's going to result from his confession. He'll end up in jail. She can sue for $9 million. He'll serve out his term. Daughter will be safe while he's incarcerated and will be grown and out of the house by the time he gets out. Husband and wife will have a nice retirement income.
     
    #59 Katzpur, Jan 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
  20. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Let me get this strait; she's suing the church because it refused to aid and abide the rape of her own daughter?

    What a horrid, wretched ****.
     
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