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Featured The Miracle of Water.

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Deeje, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There is no substance on earth as vital for life as water is.....can it be just a fluke of nature?...or is it evidence of purposeful design?

    Please watch the video and see what logical conclusion you come to.....

    Jehovah's Witnesses BROADCASTING
     
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  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Logical conclusion? People that deny science should leave discussing the sciences to those that understand them.
     
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  3. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Oxygen is quite important too.and Carbon Dioxide - we couldn't live without those either.
     
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  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    The universe is not subject to evolution, so did these wonders just pop into existence by undirected chance? Look what's out there.....! It's mind blowing. All accidental?

    Jehovah's Witnesses BROADCASTING

    Just a reminder that childish sniping is not an adequate response....it's a pathetic cover up for inadequate lines of evidence and an excuse for having no credible answers......IMO the awesome power behind creation requires something beyond human comprehension....and beyond empty rhetoric.
     
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  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Indeed, but without water there would be no plants and hence no flow on effect vital to life. Where does oxygen and CO2 come from?

    The properties of water are unique.
     
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  6. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Without oxygen all mammals/reptiles/birds would not live.
    Without Carbon Dioxide there would be no plant life

    So, of course water is essential BUT it is not the only essential thing; we also need warmth, i.e. the sun or all the water would be frozen.
     
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  7. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    And all of those things that make life possible did not just come together by accident. How could you make a list of all the things that make life possible and come to the conclusion that it was all coincidental? How many flukes would it take, do you think?
     
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  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Why do creationists call the science that they do not understand "by accident"?

    Just because something was not caused by magic does not mean that it was caused by accident.
     
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  9. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Who said anything about magic? Just because something is unexplainable by science doesn't mean it got there by magic.

    If it all came together by design, then it indicates a designer.

    Here is all the evidence I need.....you can have your flukes....

    Jehovah's Witnesses BROADCASTING
     
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  10. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    Anthropic principle.
     
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  11. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    How many flukes does it take for the vessel to be the EXACT shape of the liquid it holds?
     
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  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    According to Wiki.....to hold that view means to "believe it is unremarkable that this universe has fundamental constants that happen to fall within the narrow range thought to be compatible with life."

    Unremarkable to whom...? Blind people.....? o_O

    Was that supposed to be a legitimate response?

    Please tell me what would happen on planet Earth if water froze the same way as other liquids do?

    How many other substances exist that have three very different and yet vital expressions? How would the oceans provide fresh water for land animals and plants to exist if there was no evaporation? Just another fluke? :shrug:
     
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  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    An argument from ignorance is not evidence. In fact I would be willing to bet that there is no scientific evidence at all for the beliefs espoused in that video.
     
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  14. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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  15. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    They didn't come together by 'accident', it is all explained by evolution. It is all about adapting to suit the surroundings.
    If the conditions were changed then totally different creatures may have evolved. But the plants, animals, etc. have evolved to suit the conditions we have on this planet. If, as is happening with global warming, the conditions change then species are likely to adapt and even die out to suit the warmer climate, higher seas, etc. There is nothing 'fluky' about it, it is adaption and selection of those animals best suited.

    Creationism explains nothing. Evolution explains everything.
     
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  16. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    According to my understanding oxygen and carbon are formed by fusion in the stars.
     
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  17. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it could be a “fluke of nature” and it isn’t evidence of design.

    I’ve concluded that someone made a video. In it they casually referred to some facts about water, some facts about general fluid dynamics falsely attributed to water alone and some facts about other fluids that aren’t water then, with absolutely no rational basis, asserted that it all exists because of the very specifically defined and characterised “Jehovah God”. :cool:
     
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  18. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    In our universe, the three most common atoms are Hydrogen, Helium and then Oxygen. Carbon is number four. In terms of the most common reactive elements in the universe, hydrogen is number one and oxygen is number two. This is why water is so common. H2 + O2---->H2O is the main chemical reaction of the universe. Water or H2O is also the second most common molecule in the universe behind only hydrogen gas or H2.

    Water is the most common solid material in the universe; ice. Ice is responsible for second generation star formation. Water has the unique characteristic of expanding when freezing and contracting when melting. Almost all other natural materials do the opposite.

    In terms of star formation, as solid ice and other materials collect due to gravity, the pressures built. This heats and pressurizes the ice, which melts and lowers it volume by about 10%. This results in a sudden escalating collapse of the star precursor, that can create an affect called fusion hammer, which lights the star. Water, as heavy water, contains the hydrogen used for fusion.

    Water is the most studied substance in all science. There are more scientific papers on water than on any other substance. Water is in a class all by itself with exceptional properties when compared with other materials. The 74 anomalous properties of water are those where the behavior of liquid water is entirely different from what is found with other liquids. For example, water is the only common material found as ice, liquid and gas, at the same time, at the conditions of earth.

    Water is critical to life. There is no substitute. If we dehydrate a cell, nothing will work. If we substitute any other solvent, still nothing works properly and there is no life. If we add water, everything now works and life appears again. Water provides a very unique nano environment, in which organic life was able to evolve. Water makes use of its many unique and anomalous properties to induce inert organic compounds into the animated building blocks needed for life.
     
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  19. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    Ugh. The point of the "vessel " metaphor is that fluid systems take on the shape of the vessel they are in, n9t the other way around. The universe has all the constants needed for our form of life, because our form of life developed in this universe to fit those constants. If universal constants were different, some other form of life would have developed to perfectly fit them.

    The bottom of a lake isn't perfectly shaped to fit the exact 3D shape of the water within it, the water changes it's shape to perfectly fit the bottom of the lake. In our analogy, life is the water, the universe is the lake bottom.

    Now, believing that God would design a system as wonderfully adaptive as evolution makes theological sense to me. And we know life changes and adapts (like the water in our analogy) but believing God super fine tuned the environment to "fit" us perfectly (i.e. made every crevice, crack, rise, dip, rock and stump of the lake bed to microscopic tolerances) doesn't make sense. I believe God is a landscaper, not a diorama modeler.
     
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  20. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    The order in which these originate: ether, air, fire, water and earth
    Air originates from Ether. Fire from Air. Water from Fire. Earth from Water.

    So Water is important, but water originated from Ether, Air and Fire
    So I guess they are more important
     
    #20 stvdv, Oct 22, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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