• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The millennial left’s war against liberalism

Politesse

Amor Vincit Omnia
If socialism isn't "liberal", I may be misunderstanding both terms?

Never so much as heard of this Chapo thing, but this is pretty on the mark:

"In this view, the role of Clinton Democrats is to administer the decline of the New Deal, not fight for its expansion through different means. For example, instead of advocating for single-payer health care, Democrats passed Obamacare, a largely ineffective market-based solution. Instead of helping unions build a mass movement that might reshape American society to the benefit of millions, they see the Democratic ethos as technocratic and meritocratic."

If being "liberal" means having to stump for corporations and refuse to give more than lip service to indigenous concerns, I'm more than happy to abandon the label and rejoin the good fight of the "Old Left". I certainly respect FDR more than most of the chuckleheads in Washington these days.

I don't think there's such a thing as "Clinton democrats" and "not-Clinton democrats", though, at least not if you're also wanting to blame Millenials for all this somehow. We may not like her, but Millenials did all vote for her, overwhelmingly...
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
If socialism isn't "liberal", I may be misunderstanding both terms?

Never so much as heard of this Chapo thing, but this is pretty on the mark:

"In this view, the role of Clinton Democrats is to administer the decline of the New Deal, not fight for its expansion through different means. For example, instead of advocating for single-payer health care, Democrats passed Obamacare, a largely ineffective market-based solution. Instead of helping unions build a mass movement that might reshape American society to the benefit of millions, they see the Democratic ethos as technocratic and meritocratic."

If being "liberal" means having to stump for corporations and refuse to give more than lip service to indigenous concerns, I'm more than happy to abandon the label and rejoin the good fight of the "Old Left". I certainly respect FDR more than most of the chuckleheads in Washington these days.

I think Chris Hedges accurately characterized liberals (i.e. folks like the Clintons) as people who believe in change primarily as a means of propping up the system. That is, they are fundamentally for the status quo and willing to tolerate change only in so far as it helps to preserve the status quo.
 

Politesse

Amor Vincit Omnia
I think Chris Hedges accurately characterized liberals (i.e. folks like the Clintons) as people who believe in change primarily as a means of propping up the system. That is, they are fundamentally for the status quo and willing to tolerate change on in so far as it helps to preserve the status quo.
I recall thinking much the same thing back when it was Clinton and Obama on the primary ticket; both insisted that they wanted "change", but were largely unwilling to entertain the idea of any kind of serious disruption to the system that was making my generation so very poor and desperate; neither seemed to have my interests at heart, so I went for the guy with the cooler head under fire and the better stump speech. He surprised me, in the end, strengthening his position on things like gay rights and financial and housing regulation that he had been noticeably non-committal about when campaigning. Perhaps Clinton would have done the same. Or perhaps it is asking too much to get lucky twice.
 

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of confusion between classical liberalism, modern liberalism, and libertarianism. Classical liberalism was most prevalent in the 60s, and the term "liberal" was applied to those who were experimenting with drugs, unconventional sex, breaking the boundaries of gender roles. It's more tied in with the "drug war", feminism, and sexual liberty than anything else. Modern liberalism, in the other hand, borrows elements of that philosophy (mainly regarding the legalization of marijuana), but it is more socialistic and less supportive of certain personal liberties (gun rights, "hate speech", and so on). I agree with aspects of both forms of liberalism, but I am more libertarian than anything.

Left Libertarianism is a revival of classical liberalism, augmented to relate more to modern issues than issues prevalent during the era of classical liberalism. Right Libertarianism is completely different, and it is more minarchistic.

I think that the modern millennial left dislikes libertarianism because it promotes the idea of a weaker government, and because the generation is in general, very naive, they want a stronger government to enforce their "kindness" policies.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
There's a lot of confusion between classical liberalism, modern liberalism, and libertarianism. Classical liberalism was most prevalent in the 60s, and the term "liberal" was applied to those who were experimenting with drugs, unconventional sex, breaking the boundaries of gender roles. It's more tied in with the "drug war", feminism, and sexual liberty than anything else. Modern liberalism, in the other hand, borrows elements of that philosophy (mainly regarding the legalization of marijuana), but it is more socialistic and less supportive of certain personal liberties (gun rights, "hate speech", and so on). I agree with aspects of both forms of liberalism, but I am more libertarian than anything.

Left Libertarianism is a revival of classical liberalism, augmented to relate more to modern issues than issues prevalent during the era of classical liberalism. Right Libertarianism is completely different, and it is more minarchistic.

I think that the modern millennial left dislikes libertarianism because it promotes the idea of a weaker government, and because the generation is in general, very naive, they want a stronger government to enforce their "kindness" policies.

You didn't read the article linked to in the OP, did you?
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
i can't read the article on my computer without subscribing, however you have to be kidding me if you think Clinton is a liberal.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I've used up my WaPo articles for the month.

Any highlights?

"[T]the millennial left is not a return to the New Left of the 1960s — the student radicals, hippies and Yippies who raised hell in their efforts to end the Vietnam War and change American culture to make it less racist and sexist and more authentic. Rather it invokes the ideas of the Old Left of the 1930s — the militant labor unions, socialists and even communists who, in the context of the worst economic depression in American history, sought a genuine alternative to capitalism."

"The Old Left of the 1930s grew out of a 19th-century socialist movement and focused its political energy on the problems of capitalism. It was also deeply critical of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s brand of liberalism. Although Roosevelt championed the “common man” and pushed through New Deal reforms that became the bedrock of 20th-century American social democracy, the 1930s left criticized FDR and liberals for the compromises they made with capitalism."

"One of the better representations of the millennial left is Chapo Trap House, a wildly popular podcast that boasts the most paid subscribers on Patreon. Around 15,000 people pay $5 per month for weekly subscriber-only episodes, in addition to the tens of thousands of listeners who tune in to the episodes Chapo makes public. Founded in March 2016, the podcast is a sometimes hilarious, often angry, mostly smart and always irreverent conversation about politics and culture."

"Sincere in its democratic socialist leanings, Chapo is best known for its mocking and sarcastic tone, made clear by its very title, which combines a reference to Mexican drug lord Joaquín “El Chapo” Guzmán with the hip-hop slang term for a drug house (“trap house”). While it often takes on Trump and the alt-right with a sense of comedic genius, Chapo saves its most derisive material for the “libs.”

"Chapo reflects the broader generational divide on the left side of the American political spectrum between millennials and their neoliberal predecessors. Like their Depression-era forerunners, Chapo-listening millennials have moved closer to socialism in response to an economic crisis. Millennials are likely to be worse off economically than their parents or grandparents, especially those who have become job-seeking adults in the years since the Great Recession of 2008. A left-wing political response to such conditions makes sense."

I hope this helps.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
sought a genuine alternative to capitalism.

To me it seems the youth have a growing unrest in capitalism.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I've used up my WaPo articles for the month.

Any highlights?

I just use another browser when that happens. If all else fails, use Tor, and you won't have to worry about the limit of articles on sites like that.
 
Top