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Featured The Messiah Rejected by All

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by wizanda, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Him being not the Messiah, and a very naughty boy instead is part of the problem... It is like a denial of poetic facts we can see as historical.
    Thus suggesting selling to the audience; rather than beating them with multiple books at the same time... Excellent point.
    The reality we're within is scripture; everything is for a reason, and everything is more than it seems.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  2. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    You are
    Your understanding is almost "gnostic". Which is my belief as well. When you seek outside the box (orthodoxy) there is much more to learn.
     
  3. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Hope you noticed the links, as posted masses of data as contradictions... Which will back up with scripture if anyone asks...

    Here is a second link for the John thread, which lists numerous other points.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  4. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Have had lots of gnosis (unreal experiences), would be deemed a child of light, recognize the deception placed by YHVH to embroil the world; yet don't blame him as being the demiurge, instead see it as an evolving concepts of legislation on top of of each other, to see if people pay attention to Law they say they follow.
    The box of religion tried to contain something that is our whole reality.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  5. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely. It's like Dylan. Go back and listen to all along the watch tower. He's the outsider the world is confused, and he points outside the city walls a wild cat and two riders. He is young he k ow its bs. The song itself isn't new its only new clothing. Then he literally walks right into culture hotel California church. He eventually goes running out the door with his hair on fire literally in real life.

    It's the irony of life. Bob had a brief moment of trying to be not wierd bob, and it didn't work out to well. It's getting around on the intellect but you can say it in such a way direct and forget it good luck that's just hitting a wall. It's like complaining about the hotel California and complaining about it in such a way that the captives understand it but then what you are saying is also held captive by that!!! It's like being an atheist and pretending you arent really, but in fact you are really just a southern baptist without jesus!!!! In fact its not pretending its a hallucination called normal. Hotel California is like the singer saying its normal world and it is an acid trip of crazy. Lol. Like one giant strip mall disneyland. Lol. That is the curse of an artist. Its to see that.
     
  6. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    wizanda, I have two questions for you.

    Why do you emphasize all religions being about Christ instead of all religions being good of their own merit and therefore similar to Christ's?
    What, in your opinion, would it take for someone to accept Christ, given that everyone or nearly everyone rejects Him?

    As you can see I am neither being a Pharisee or a Saducee.
     
  7. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    I see it as close. Gnosis teaches God has no name. Only created things have names. In the Jews religion, they heard what they understood from angels as Stephen saw with the HS within him Acts 7. Paul says the same thing and Jesus says so in John 6, 8, 10.

    Gnosis is filled with the same mind. If one eludes John and Paul, to me it's hard to bring the mystery of the gospel to light. I agree with Peter not being the main character to base it all on. In all gospels and Paul, Peter struggled most of all mentioned disciples, next to Judas.

    The best thing to do is to remove the names of what is read, and see the message instead. The Holy Spirit will reveal if she is the author or not.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  8. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    @wizanda even if we take Paul, Peter, etc. from the picture, that still doesn't argue for what you want it to. It doesn't make Jesus and the Buddha the same. As for the Buddha being Vishnu- we don't believe that. That is an Advaita view in Hinduism. India at the time of the Buddha didn't believe the gods equated to Ultimate Reality. Even the old Vedics did not believe that. It was actually Buddhists and Jains that were some of the first to move the scope to a Brahman with concepts like Buddha-nature and Anekantavada in Jainism. However, this idea of Vishnu, etc being Brahman's plays is a developmental idea that Shankara emphasized over 1000 years after the Buddha's life.

    I believe in Vishnu @wizanda, as traditional Buddhist cosmology does put forth there is the Vedic deity Vishnu. However, Vishnu isn't even at the high place in the original order of the pantheon. That's Indra, Brahma, and Agni. Buddhist cosmology as concerns the Devas doesn't reflect the Advaita view of Vishnu and Shiva supremacy because that came about with later schools. For the Buddha, Indra was still the king of the gods.

    All Buddhist long praise mantras that include the Devas place Indra in the foremost place, as it used to be. I can't speak for Jainism there. I love Hinduism @wizanda. It's a beautiful tradition in many ways, but we don't agree there. Earlier on in Indian cosmology, the gods are not facets of Brahman. Brahman is transcendent even of the gods. The gods are good beings however, and they care about people.

    Vishnu is mentioned in some long praise mantras, as is Rudra/Shiva- as being protectors of the Buddha's Dharma and those that practice. I venerate Vishnu and Shiva every day because I use a long form Buddhist liturgy that includes the Deva veneration to those gods that are either good and advocates of humanity, or have taken refuge in the Triple Gem.
     
    #28 Buddha Dharma, Jan 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
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  9. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    @wizanda you don't find it problematic that as one believing in the Bible, as you do, which argues for a monotheistic worldview- you're taking all these ideas, deities, and premises from polytheistic worldviews like Buddhism and the Vedic religion? The Buddha was simply not a monotheist. I have to tell Baha'is this too, as much as I respect that faith in many ways. Vishnu and Shiva are not part of a monotheistic framework.
     
  10. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Thankyou! :)
    I have only been exposed to such treatment by one group in the last year, but it was mind-bendingly shocking.
    Where a group believes that it is Ordained by God and Divinely Holy, then any adversary of any kind has to be, by definition, Unholy! This seems to affect the mindsets of such believers to the point that they begin to perceive unholy thoughts and past actions within their adversaries, and even make such claims!
    I write 'unholy' because the group I refer to is not supposed to (does not) accept the existence of Evil.

    Thankyou again.....
     
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  11. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Because there is only one God (CPU), and each avatar is only a representative made manifest by the One; so Christ is Buddha, is Lao Tzu, if people don't see it as ultimately from One Source, they're not getting into Heaven or the Age of Godliness to come, as they do not properly accept the Oneness of God.

    As someone who loves each individuals teachings, character, and expression of the divine; find it disappointing that people see them as talking about different things, when they unify in many places...

    Like a jigsaw puzzle, that when we put it all together we see the bigger picture of Oneness; all these people wandering around with one jigsaw piece claiming they understand the whole, are naive and very confused.
    Thank you for the excellent questions... Pray to do them justice.

    To follow Yeshua properly, his Gospel was to do the the work of God, to heal the sick, help the poor, be charitable because you can, not out of reward, cleanse the inside of the cup, not trying to clean others when we're full of hypocrisy, remove self and replace it with unconditional love for the Divine first, and then others after, put God before everything, and bringing Oneness (Heaven) to earth before anything else.

    Do not say Yeshua came to die for us, do not touch his blood or anything not specified without permission; like literally stay as an unprofitable servant, who goes the extra mile than expected, without seeking or expecting any reward.

    Yeshua Elohim had the spirit of YHVH Elohim within him, and the One God Most High (El Elyon - CPU) is all of our father...

    Yeshua is Messiah as no one else can be, only he was murdered before the 2nd temple destruction, cut off and put the Jews under a curse at the same time period, and has been rejected by the world, whilst many think they follow him.

    Of course there are loads of things i've missed, and tried to include the majority of things; yet please ask questions, there are always additional contexts, and scriptures for everything being said.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
    #31 wizanda, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  12. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    We never dismiss or elude anything to be logical, it is all evidence to what people believe, where ideas come from, and has prophetic contexts.

    The problem is Paul contradicts Christ on well over 36 points, and almost every tenant of the belief system...

    The most fundamental point tho, is that Yeshua challenged the Sanhedrin for murdering the prophets as atoning sacrifices in Matthew 23:27-38, Mark 7:1-13, and the Parable of the Wicked Husbandman (Matthew 21:33-46, Mark 12:1-12, and Luke 20:9-19)...

    Thus the idea Paul is teaching jesus came to die, is totally off the rails, and doesn't understand the prophets or Law, as it defiles it in multiple places, and anyone naive enough to follow Paul also shows they have very low moral standards.

    The Gospel of John tho having a Gnostic slant to its ideologies, also contradicts Yeshua on over 31 points in the Synoptic Gospels; it also makes this faulty idea God pre-meditatively sent Yeshua to die as a sin sacrifice, which is Balaam teachings, as God doesn't require sacrifice.

    There are two Gospels, there is Yeshua's in the Synoptic Gospels which is a living Gospel of doing the work of God, will make it Heaven on earth, and then there is a dead Gospel by the pharisees, they've murder the Messiah, so we can all get free atonement, which they've made up after his death.

    This is all prophetic tho, with John and Paul fulfilling specifically some of the concepts prophesied as the deception, to set a snare to remove the ravenous/bloodthirsty, who are not worthy of the Messianic age.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
  13. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    No, of course it does not worry me. Why would I ever believe in that?
     
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  14. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    They're the same as two pieces of the same jigsaw puzzle....They're the same being two Elohim/Avatars/Elders...

    Their knowledge of Oneness (Heaven) is unified, as they both teach the same methods to reaching it.

    Yet if you would like to list where you believe they are not the same, that might be easier; as currently you seem to encompass much of Christian ideology, without knowing all the differences. o_O
    You see i don't find that, i find Buddha referring to the universal mind, and removing concepts of deification of the Divine, as it creates self ideas.

    Thus my knowledge of what Buddha is referring to is Brahman without self, and without a name; as then it eliminates Buddha's ideologies being confused with the Hindu ideas already established, that he was trying to show have flaws..

    Where one of the biggest concepts is 'self' realization, so encompassing Advaita as the school of thought some of this came from is totally alien, when that is the concepts Buddha was rejecting.
    I don't believe in books; i fulfill certain bits, and know how some of it historically and prophetically adds up...

    Thus based on probability, there is a 90+% chance its prophetic implications are real, and are going to take place...

    Also because these same prophetic implications are revealed in multiple other religions eschatologies the same.
    Elohim (H430) is plural, El (H410) is singular...

    There is one God Most High (El Elyon) in the first temple period, and then a council of Elohim (Avatars) with YHVH at its head.

    Judaism since the return from the Babylonian Exile has tried to create a stricter form of monotheism, that doesn't exist in their text...

    And thus they didn't understand when Yeshua came claiming to be YHVH, as they think that is a name for God, and not that it means the "Lord To Be" physically manifest.

    This is why i was saying to you about 24 elders in Revelation, these are similar to the 24 incarnations of Vishnu surrounding Brahman (CPU).
    Since Hinduism is ultimately Monotheist, and the statements by Buddha about the universal mind is ultimately Monotheist (Laṅkāvatāra Sūtra); thinking representatives are gods, is of a lower materialistic mind then the comprehension of Buddha was at.... All is ultimately One.
    Vishnu means "all pervasive".
    Shiva means "Auspicious".

    They are aspects of the Oneness of the CPU, there isn't two CPUs manifesting reality; there are just many different forms of the Divine, including us (if we recognize it).

    Like in the Psalms 82:6 it says, 'we're all Elohim, and are children of the Most High'; many get this confused, try to re-translate it to make it fit with their own presuppositions, rather then question what it actually says...

    All of us are fallen angels in someway, and it is due to our own potential that we can ascend back again, if we walk consistently towards enlightenment.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
  15. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Because of being logically consistent in researching what is going on in this reality, and if we can see objectively verifiable prophetic events that have happened in history, then it is logical to question that the rest will take place.

    If you only believed it, and didn't actually know the data, then that would also be a naive stance; as a belief always has an element of doubt, and thus why it always contains a 'lie'.

    Understandably if we took the Jewish, Christian, Muslim view, and didn't dissect the texts properly as they do, due to their own presuppositions overriding the text; then that also wouldn't be logically consistent, due to not assessing if they actually know what they're talking about.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
  16. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I guess I disagree then.
     
  17. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    Well guess I disagree with your opinion Wizanda, I am telling you however, that the Vedic pantheon wasn't always seen how it is today. India has had a lot of philosophical ideologies and worship styles come and go.
     
  18. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    @wizanda: you don't find that for the Buddha> Indra was king of the gods? Indeed?

    "It is through earnest effort that Indra became the Lord of gods. Those that strive earnestly are always honored. The thoughtless and slothful, never"- Dhammapada

    Do you know where Indra sits in traditional Buddhist cosmology even? He's more than just the King of the Devas. He was the Buddha's guardian and protector. He witnessed the Dharma, as in- Indra would confirm the Buddha said so and so. Indra and Brahma were at the Buddha's birth.

    Oh and, there's plenty of evidence for Indra being the highest god of the Indian pantheon in ancient times. Besides it being in his Mantra, I mean: Om Namo Bhagavato Indra Rajadeva Vajrahasta.

    Hindus probably chant it a bit differently. I know those are Sanskrit words.These are Indra's titles. King of the Devas and holder of the thunder weapon- the Vajra.

    Indra isn't only the highest god in that pantheon @wizanda, but he was for virtually every Indo European form of polytheism. Zeus for example, is the Greek equivalent to Indra.
     
    #38 Buddha Dharma, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  19. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    That's entirely possible. It's difficult to say considering probably a lot of older copies of Zoroastrian scripture were destroyed when Alexander sacked Persepolis.
     
  20. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    We interrupt this broadcast to inform you that skype goddamnit.
     
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