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The Media-Fed Animosity Between the Arab World and Israel

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
The older I get and, consequently, farther from my largely anti-Jewish upbringing I get, the more I feel that the hatred between Israel and Arab countries is perhaps intentionally fuelled by the media and driven by self-serving regimes far more than well-informed public sentiment.

Take, for example, Saudi Arabia's military escapades in Yemen and contribution to a famine and the suffering of millions of fellow Arabs and Muslims, or the brushing aside of Palestinian concerns and struggles by the UAE. Countries that are most supposed to unite in tackling the region's struggles and human rights issues are the ones most contributing to said issues.

These issues are arguably no less inhumane or conducive to the ongoing struggle of the Arab world than illegal settlements built by Israel, yet the public sentiment in the Arab world isn't nearly as hostile toward Arab countries contributing to them as it is toward Israel. In fact, if number of deaths of innocent Arabs is a primary measure for the Arab world's biggest enemies, then the likes of Bashar al-Assad, Saddam Hussein, Muammar al-Gaddaffi, and the House of Saud put Israel to shame.

This is not the case in mainstream Arabic media, however, which continues to encourage hatred and enmity between Jews and Arabs--especially Arab Muslims. Most people I know have never met or even talked to an Israeli, yet they wouldn't hesitate to express that they wish Israel would literally be wiped off the planet. To them--and to me, before I talked to Israelis online--Israelis are a hated, almost demonic abstraction or archetype of mostly horrible qualities. And when the media keeps conjuring this image in the minds of its audiences, is it any surprise that this is the result?

When I first joined RF around 10 years ago, I was surprised to find Israeli members here and talked to them with significant hostility in the forum's then-chat room. Only after months on the forum and further interactions did I gradually realize that they weren't any different from my friends and people I regularly met. They didn't wish for the destruction of all Arabs or Muslims, didn't even want war, and didn't talk to me differently because I was Arab or Muslim. It dawned on me that perhaps the prevalent notions about Israelis in the Arab world would be very different if we--Arabs and Israelis--actually had more communication with each other without intermediate layers mainly in the form of the media, clerics, and politicians.

In a considerably large bubble of misunderstanding and animosity created by mainstream media and maintained by religious and political demagogues to shape up public sentiment, it seems to me that perhaps it's time the populations of the Middle East sought more independent sources to understand and communicate with groups they have long associated with negative abstractions and oversimplifications in the absence of any direct contact. It is possible the Internet Age may facilitate or enable this. I sure hope so, both for the sake of the region and for the sake of human understanding and compassion.
 
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Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
The up and the down of the internet is that it can both heal and hinder. Certain folks can use it to connect to folks they never would have, whereas now they can also spread entrenched beliefs like never before, compounded by religion to a large degree in the ME, and gather followers who turn cultlike. I don't know enough ME politics to talk on this at length, but it seems you're right, that the Arabs' worst enemy is other Arabs; figuratively as well as literally, because they're the ones doing the brainwashing.
 
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epronovost

Well-Known Member
Even many American Christians seem to hate Palestinians without considering that many Palestinians are Christians themselves. Not that it's okay to hate Muslim Palestinians either.

When it comes to Christian Zionists, while they adore Israel, they hate the people who inhabit it and can't wait for them to either die or embrace christianity as Judgement Day rolls over.
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
The older I get and, consequently, farther from my largely anti-Jewish upbringing I get, the more I feel that the hatred between Israel and Arab countries is perhaps intentionally fuelled by the media and driven by self-serving regimes far more than well-informed public sentiment.

Take, for example, Saudi Arabia's military escapades in Yemen and contribution to a famine and the suffering of millions of fellow Arabs and Muslims, or the brushing aside of Palestinian concerns and struggles by the UAE. Countries that are most supposed to unite in tackling the region's struggles and human rights issues are the ones most contributing to said issues.

These issues are arguably no less inhumane or conducive to the ongoing struggle of the Arab world than illegal settlements built by Israel, yet the public sentiment in the Arab world isn't nearly as hostile toward Arab countries contributing to them as it is toward Israel. In fact, if number of deaths of innocent Arabs is a primary measure for the Arab world's biggest enemies, then the likes of Bashar al-Assad, Saddam Hussein, Muammar al-Gaddaffi, and the House of Saud put Israel to shame.

This is not the case in mainstream Arabic media, however, which continues to encourage hatred and enmity between Jews and Arabs--especially Arab Muslims. Most people I know have never met or even talked to an Israeli, yet they wouldn't hesitate to express that they wish Israel would literally be wiped off the planet. To them--and to me, before I talked to Israelis online--Israelis are a hated, almost demonic abstraction or archetype of mostly horrible qualities. And when the media keeps conjuring this image in the minds of its audiences, is it any surprise that this is the result?

When I first joined RF around 10 years ago, I was surprised to find Israeli members here and talked to them with significant hostility in the forum's then-chat room. Only after months on the forum and further interactions did I gradually realize that they weren't any different from my friends and people I regularly met. They didn't wish for the destruction of all Arabs or Muslims, didn't even want war, and didn't talk to me differently because I was Arab or Muslim. It dawned on me that perhaps the prevalent notions about Israelis in the Arab world would be very different if we--Arabs and Israelis--actually had more communication with each other without intermediate layers mainly in the form of the media, clerics, and politicians.

In a considerably large bubble of misunderstanding and animosity created by mainstream media and maintained by religious and political demagogues to shape up public sentiment, it seems to me that perhaps it's time the populations of the Middle East sought more independent sources to understand and communicate with groups they have long associated with negative abstractions and oversimplifications in the absence of any direct contact. It is possible the Internet Age may facilitate or enable this. I sure hope so, both for the sake of the region and for the sake of human understanding and compassion.
The Arab Israeli conflict has been going on since the time of Abraham, when his sons Issac and Ishmael began the hostilities due to one having an Arab mother and the other having a Jewish mother.

The media thrives on controversy, it relies on the ignorance of the masses to sell their stories. The Arab Israeli conflict is the perfect subject to feed a hungry media. Both the Jews and Muslims believe their religion is the only true religion, both believe God gave them the disputed land.

It's easy to exploit this situation for financial gain, most of the main players are not interested in peace as they're quite happy with the status quo as long as the money keeps coming in. The last consideration in this cruel game of chess are the ordinary citizens of the effected countries, they are used as pawns and cannon fodder.

The religious leaders have a lot to answer for as well, they can't expect a peaceful resolution while they continue to demonise the other side. The Arabic religious leaders will have to stop preaching that the Jews don't have a right to live and the Jewish religious leaders will have to stop preaching that Muslims are not of equall value as human beings as the "chosen people" Jews are. .
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
As a general rule, @Debater Slayer, whenever you see one group hating another group anywhere in the world, someone is making money off of that hatred. Money, power, prestige, etc.

Sometimes they start it, sometimes they merely see their opportunity. But there is almost always at least one vulture fanning it, ginning it up, so they can benefit from it.

But you knew that. Most of us either know that these days, or we're becoming aware of it.

I guess those of us who pile onto the hatred can at least claim we're good for the economy.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The older I get and, consequently, farther from my largely anti-Jewish upbringing I get, the more I feel that the hatred between Israel and Arab countries is perhaps intentionally fuelled by the media and driven by self-serving regimes far more than well-informed public sentiment.

Take, for example, Saudi Arabia's military escapades in Yemen and contribution to a famine and the suffering of millions of fellow Arabs and Muslims, or the brushing aside of Palestinian concerns and struggles by the UAE. Countries that are most supposed to unite in tackling the region's struggles and human rights issues are the ones most contributing to said issues.

These issues are arguably no less inhumane or conducive to the ongoing struggle of the Arab world than illegal settlements built by Israel, yet the public sentiment in the Arab world isn't nearly as hostile toward Arab countries contributing to them as it is toward Israel. In fact, if number of deaths of innocent Arabs is a primary measure for the Arab world's biggest enemies, then the likes of Bashar al-Assad, Saddam Hussein, Muammar al-Gaddaffi, and the House of Saud put Israel to shame.

This is not the case in mainstream Arabic media, however, which continues to encourage hatred and enmity between Jews and Arabs--especially Arab Muslims. Most people I know have never met or even talked to an Israeli, yet they wouldn't hesitate to express that they wish Israel would literally be wiped off the planet. To them--and to me, before I talked to Israelis online--Israelis are a hated, almost demonic abstraction or archetype of mostly horrible qualities. And when the media keeps conjuring this image in the minds of its audiences, is it any surprise that this is the result?

When I first joined RF around 10 years ago, I was surprised to find Israeli members here and talked to them with significant hostility in the forum's then-chat room. Only after months on the forum and further interactions did I gradually realize that they weren't any different from my friends and people I regularly met. They didn't wish for the destruction of all Arabs or Muslims, didn't even want war, and didn't talk to me differently because I was Arab or Muslim. It dawned on me that perhaps the prevalent notions about Israelis in the Arab world would be very different if we--Arabs and Israelis--actually had more communication with each other without intermediate layers mainly in the form of the media, clerics, and politicians.

In a considerably large bubble of misunderstanding and animosity created by mainstream media and maintained by religious and political demagogues to shape up public sentiment, it seems to me that perhaps it's time the populations of the Middle East sought more independent sources to understand and communicate with groups they have long associated with negative abstractions and oversimplifications in the absence of any direct contact. It is possible the Internet Age may facilitate or enable this. I sure hope so, both for the sake of the region and for the sake of human understanding and compassion.
It has long been my view that criticism of the policies of the Israeli government is not antisemitism ─ despite the numerous spokesfolk for that government who have been very quick to assert the contrary.

It is, for example, the longstanding policy, enforced by the military, to prevent the Palestinians from becoming an independent state, the only humane way forward that's been on the table. To this end they've used their military to blockade Palestinian trade, and to seize Palestinian land.

True, one possibility for a peaceful and just settlement was lost at Camp David under Clinton (2000) when PLO boss Yasser Arafat was too afraid of his own team to allow agreement to be reached. A shame it was not at least attempted.

I make no attempt to paint Hamas as angels; but what would you do in their position?
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
When it comes to Christian Zionists, while they adore Israel, they hate the people who inhabit it and can't wait for them to either die or embrace christianity as Judgement Day rolls over.
No, that's not fair ... they certainly do tend to love Jews at least. It's just their love of Jews blinds them to any wrong doing by Israeli government.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
The religious leaders have a lot to answer for as well, they can't expect a peaceful resolution while they continue to demonise the other side. The Arabic religious leaders will have to stop preaching that the Jews don't have a right to live and the Jewish religious leaders will have to stop preaching that Muslims are not of equall value as human beings as the "chosen people" Jews are. .

^^

Agreed. The people of the region are mostly cool. It's the religious / political leaders who keep emotions high. Once again, as an anti-theist, I see how many things religion poisons.
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
^^

Agreed. The people of the region are mostly cool. It's the religious / political leaders who keep emotions high. Once again, as an anti-theist, I see how many things religion poisons.
I have very close Jewish and Arabic friends, people are all equal before God regardless of their ethnicity. Every single person will be judged individually on judgement day, they won't be able to hide behind any religion or ethnic group.
Murder and hatred is equally wrong, no matter who commits them. The sad reality is, the majority of people are like sheep, they just follow their leaders blindly so it's easy to radicalise them and tell them they have the right to kill infidels. The Jews are taught that Muslims are infidels and the Muslims are taught that the Jews are infidels.

The world leaders have tried to broker some kind of a peace agreement for the past 70 years and they have never succeeded. It's hard to be optimistic when we consider that sad statistic.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
The Arab Israeli conflict has been going on since the time of Abraham, when his sons Issac and Ishmael began the hostilities due to one having an Arab mother and the other having a Jewish mother.
Hagar was an Egyptian slave. It doesn't say she was an Arab.
While it's true there were hostilities between the mothers, if I remember correctly, nowhere in Genesis is it said that Yitzchak and Yishmael were hostile to one another. When Abraham died, the two buried him together.
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
Hagar was an Egyptian slave. It doesn't say she was an Arab.
While it's true there were hostilities between the mothers, if I remember correctly, nowhere in Genesis is it said that Yitzchak and Yishmael were hostile to one another. When Abraham died, the two buried him together.
But didn't Hagar turn around and promise revenge when she and Yismael were told to leave the family. From memory Hagar said something like my sons offspring will out number yours and they will come after yours.

I haven't studied the Book of Genesis for a long time so I could do with a refresher course.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
But didn't Hagar turn around and promise revenge when she and Yismael were told to leave the family. From memory Hagar said something like my sons offspring will out number yours and they will come after yours.

I haven't studied the Book of Genesis for a long time so I could do with a refresher course.
I don't recall any promises of revenge.
Maybe it's something in the NT?
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
I don't recall any promises of revenge.
Maybe it's something in the NT?

Moreover, the angel of the LORD said to her, “I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they shall be too many to count.”

The angel of the LORD said to her further, “Behold, you are with child, And you shall bear a son; And you shall call his name Ishmael, Because the LORD has given heed to your affliction.

“And he will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, And everyone’s hand will be against him; And he will live to the east of all his brothers.” (NASB) Genesis 16:10-12

Notice God’s statement about the conflict that would follow. The conflict would be between Isaac and Ishmael. God promised to make great nations of both Isaac and Ishmael. Isaac would be the father of Israel and Ishmael the father of the Arabs.

It sounds like these two brothers were destined to be hostile towards each other.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Moreover, the angel of the LORD said to her, “I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they shall be too many to count.”

The angel of the LORD said to her further, “Behold, you are with child, And you shall bear a son; And you shall call his name Ishmael, Because the LORD has given heed to your affliction.

“And he will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, And everyone’s hand will be against him; And he will live to the east of all his brothers.” (NASB) Genesis 16:10-12

Notice God’s statement about the conflict that would follow. The conflict would be between Isaac and Ishmael. God promised to make great nations of both Isaac and Ishmael. Isaac would be the father of Israel and Ishmael the father of the Arabs.

It sounds like these two brothers were destined to be hostile towards each other.
I'm sorry, but I see nothing in the verses you quoted about hostilities specifically between Isaac and Ishmael.
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
I'm sorry, but I see nothing in the verses you quoted about hostilities specifically between Isaac and Ishmael.
That's right, there is nothing specific but we can include Issac in the "everyone's hand will be against him". I'll ask my pastor if there's anything specific this coming Lords day and get back to you cheers
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
I frequently run into people from the Middle East in my line of work - these days, predominantly refugees and migrants from Syria and Iraq - and not a single one of them had anything good to say about either Saudi Arabia or Israel (with the exception of one young Syrian woman who had attended a fairly expensive private school in the KSA before migrating).

The key difference here appeared to me that the people expressing animosity towards the former were typically speaking from personal experience due to SA being somewhat of an economic heavyweight in the region, while their opinions on Israel largely seemed to come from the media.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
The Arab Israeli conflict has been going on since the time of Abraham, when his sons Issac and Ishmael began the hostilities due to one having an Arab mother and the other having a Jewish mother.
[...]
I find that there is a large portion of anachronistic backward projection going on when people are talking about the historical roots of the Israeli vs Arab conflict.

First of all, before the advent of Islam, "Arab" was a regional rather than an ethnic term, and did not encompass the regions of Syria, Egypt, the Maghreb, or modern day Iraq, where the majority of modern day "Arabs" actually live. When we see a sort-of kind-of "Arab" identity, it comes in the form of Islam - but we should remember that Islam spread beyond the immediate Arab cultural space fairly early on, and quickly incorporated communities that did not - and still do not - see themselves as "Arab" or even Arabic-adjacent, most famously Iran/Persia, but also the Turkic peoples of Central Asia, and the people of Subsaharan Africa and South Asia.

Second, while there were certainly conflicts betweeen Jewish communities and Arabs after the Islamic Arab conquest of the Middle East, I would argue that the nature of these conflicts significantly differs in nature to the modern Israeli-Arab conflict insofar as they were a conflict between rulers and the communities they ruled over, not a conflict betweeen two nominally equal parties with similar (or at least mirroring) goals. In this, I would argue, they are closer in nature to the conflicts between Jews and Christians in Europe, than the modern Israeli-Arab conflict.

Third, "Israel" as a concept of a state rather than a Jewish ethno-religious identity did not really take shape until the rise of Zionism in the 19th century, essentially as both a transposition of, and a specifically Jewish response to, European nationalism.

It was only with the advent of a Zionist movement that Western Jews specifically started to think seriously about a Jewish national state in the Middle East, and it was not until the turn of the century that migration to modern day Israel had started in earnest - and it is in this time period that we see the first eruptions of conflict between the Arabic people living in that region on one hand, and both the native Jewish population and the newly arriving European colonists on the other. Here, we see the first signs of the problem that will continue to plague the region up to our modern day.
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
I find that there is a large portion of anachronistic backward projection going on when people are talking about the historical roots of the Israeli vs Arab conflict.

First of all, before the advent of Islam, "Arab" was a regional rather than an ethnic term, and did not encompass the regions of Syria, Egypt, the Maghreb, or modern day Iraq, where the majority of modern day "Arabs" actually live. When we see a sort-of kind-of "Arab" identity, it comes in the form of Islam - but we should remember that Islam spread beyond the immediate Arab cultural space fairly early on, and quickly incorporated communities that did not - and still do not - see themselves as "Arab" or even Arabic-adjacent, most famously Iran/Persia, but also the Turkic peoples of Central Asia, and the people of Subsaharan Africa and South Asia.

Second, while there were certainly conflicts betweeen Jewish communities and Arabs after the Islamic Arab conquest of the Middle East, I would argue that the nature of these conflicts significantly differs in nature to the modern Israeli-Arab conflict insofar as they were a conflict between rulers and the communities they ruled over, not a conflict betweeen two nominally equal parties with similar (or at least mirroring) goals. In this, I would argue, they are closer in nature to the conflicts between Jews and Christians in Europe, than the modern Israeli-Arab conflict.

Third, "Israel" as a concept of a state rather than a Jewish ethno-religious identity did not really take shape until the rise of Zionism in the 19th century, essentially as both a transposition of, and a specifically Jewish response to, European nationalism.

It was only with the advent of a Zionist movement that Western Jews specifically started to think seriously about a Jewish national state in the Middle East, and it was not until the turn of the century that migration to modern day Israel had started in earnest - and it is in this time period that we see the first eruptions of conflict between the Arabic people living in that region on one hand, and both the native Jewish population and the newly arriving European colonists on the other. Here, we see the first signs of the problem that will continue to plague the region up to our modern day.
There are many different historical accounts which are fundamentally different, so it's difficult to know which one to believe. The Jews have their version, the Arabs have theirs, the Turks have theirs, the Greeks and Romans have theirs.
Regardless of which version we hold to, the Jews do have a historical claim to the disputed territories. They have been there since the days of Moses, so they're never going to abandon their claim. The only possible way to make them give up the land is to do what the Iranian leaders have always vowed to do and that's to wipe them out completely or push them into the sea.

I can't see the sense in the Palestinian claims to the same land, knowing Israel's military is vastly superior to all the Arabic powers combined. The US and many other countries are behind Israel so that makes it impossible for anyone to defeat the Jews.

If I was a Palestinian leader, I would accept the fact that the Jews will never surrender any territory and since there's no sense in taking a military action as it means certain destruction. I would seek to find a solution which satisfies Israel for the sake of peace and prosperity. I realise this option may sound unfair, but the reality is we live in a world where those who are richer and stronger get their way.
 
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