The meaninglessnes of the Pentagram, and other things...

[omnifarious]

The way the pentagram is used today is truly ridiculous. It seems people tend to pursue this design more for aesthetic purposes than anything else. Just draw a Pentagram and arbitrary assign its points five baseless values, pay no mind to the effect. It is a child's plaything. Aside from that, the way the Pentagram itself has very little psychic versatility. Very little, if at all, association with nature/physical world/geometric principles. I call bullcrap on its use in 98% of the present-day "grimoires".

Aside from that, I call bullcrap on all psychic chanting of words in your non-native tongues. God does not speak Hebrew, Koine Greek, Aramaic, or Latin - Ok? They are human languages which have derived from older human languages which have been meshed together with other local languages over the course of history. What psychic values does chanting a word you barley understand, much less pronounce, have?

Chanting "Rafael" without understanding "God Heals"?

They are ment to be studied in their original language to be transferred into a concept your mind can actually work with.

 

[Quintessence]

The way the pentagram is used today is truly ridiculous. It seems people tend to pursue this design more for aesthetic purposes than anything else. Just draw a Pentagram and arbitrary assign its points five baseless values, pay no mind to the effect. It is a child's plaything.

I'm a little confused. Are you saying that because a symbol is used in other ways by other people, that somehow negates its value and invalidates its usage in your practices? What's the problem with something being used by children, specifically?

Aside from that, the way the Pentagram itself has very little psychic versatility.

Can you elaborate on what "psychic versatility" is? That word "psychic" is a nebulous term, so I'm not really clear on what you mean by that especially in the context you've used the word in. I see plenty of versatility to this symbol, but I don't know what "psychic versatility" is, specifically.

Very little, if at all, association with nature/physical world/geometric principles.

Really? As one example of such associations, five-petaled flowers are among the most common flower morphologies on the face of the planet. Study more botany, man!

I call bullcrap on its use in 98% of the present-day "grimoires".

I'm indifferent considering the symbols on other people's grimoires means nothing in the context of my practice, but I can't say I see it on anywhere near 98% of modern grimoires. But if you've done the research and have a well-researched statistical breakdown of symbols found on modern grimoires, I'd be curious to see it.

Aside from that, I call bullcrap on all psychic chanting of words in your non-native tongues.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean to suggest that conducting practices in any language other than your native one is silly? What's wrong about using another language in ritual? Is it the problem with form and substance? Something else?

God does not speak Hebrew, Koine Greek, Aramaic, or Latin - Ok?

What language does the one-god speak? I personally have no idea given I don't worship that god, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable assuming that the one-god doesn't speak the above languages. What experiences have led you to the conclusion that the one-god doesn't speak these languages?

They are human languages which have derived from older human languages which have been meshed together with other local languages over the course of history. What psychic values does chanting a word you barley understand, much less pronounce, have?

What is "psychic value?" I could certainly illuminate the value of these things if you were genuinely interested, but I don't know what that is, and the apparent values I see may not be what you call "psychic value."

 

[LuciaStar]

I see it as more or a 'to each their own' sort of thing. You may find it ridiculous, but to someone else it may enhance what they're doing. Let's say they're doing magical workings, since both these things can be used for ritual and magical stuff. The pentagram and chanting can enhance their experience, put more power into the magical workings and also put the one doing all this into a more magical mindset. That's the 'psychic value' about them, I find.

However, someone else may find it completely unnecessary to use either of them, as they feel they don't enhance the experience nor does it de-emphasize the experience. They may still do things that puts them into a more magical mindset. I, myself, use the four elements and light up some incense that reminds me that I am doing something a bit outside of the mundane, even though I do not use the pentagram nor chant in another language. There's a sense of 'psychic value' in that, too.

They're more or less motions and actions that would use to put them into another mindset, different from the one they usually are in. It doesn't matter how ridiculous or unnecessary one finds it to be, people will still use it if they find it works in putting them into the desired mindset.

 

[1137]

Symbols have no objective meaning. The pentagram is indeed meaningless - as are all symbols - and that's why they're useful, powerful tools. The "psychic" value (lol) of anything is irrelevant, leave it to the fluffy new agers. Psychological value is what matters.

 

[Quintessence]

Symbols have no objective meaning. The pentagram is indeed meaningless - as are all symbols - and that's why they're useful, powerful tools. The "psychic" value (lol) of anything is irrelevant, leave it to the fluffy new agers. Psychological value is what matters.

That might be what he meant by "psychic" value, though. I have no idea. It's why I asked about it a couple of times, because I'm not accustomed to the term.

 

[Mindmaster]

Meaning is highly subjective anyway. If you're speaking pentagram use like the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram remember that western occultism views god more in a sense of a masonic "Grand Architect" and generally when invoking some sort of divine force are actually addressing their spark of divinity and proving their authority over their own respective microcosm.

Thus "Thine is the power and glory forever" at the end of a Kabbalistic Cross is actually the operator speaking over their own immediate universe -- being the supreme authority and actually confirming their own power over the same. It may seem similar to Jewish or Christian uses of the word, but the modus operandi is completely different.

Inverted Pentagrams are more associated with metal music than any devils. Get over it. =)

 

[1137]

That might be what he meant by "psychic" value, though. I have no idea. It's why I asked about it a couple of times, because I'm not accustomed to the term.

No answer huh?

 

[Quintessence]

No answer huh?

Well, it hasn't been that long. Not everybody is a forum addict. :run:

 

[1137]

Well, it hasn't been that long. Not everybody is a forum addict. :run:

Should be a requirement.

 

[ScottySatan]

The way the pentagram is used today is truly ridiculous. It seems people tend to pursue this design more for aesthetic purposes than anything else. Just draw a Pentagram and arbitrary assign its points five baseless values, pay no mind to the effect. It is a child's plaything. Aside from that, the way the Pentagram itself has very little psychic versatility. Very little, if at all, association with nature/physical world/geometric principles. I call bullcrap on its use in 98% of the present-day "grimoires".

Aside from that, I call bullcrap on all psychic chanting of words in your non-native tongues. God does not speak Hebrew, Koine Greek, Aramaic, or Latin - Ok? They are human languages which have derived from older human languages which have been meshed together with other local languages over the course of history. What psychic values does chanting a word you barley understand, much less pronounce, have?

Chanting "Rafael" without understanding "God Heals"?

They are ment to be studied in their original language to be transferred into a concept your mind can actually work with.

Whining about what you think things mean to other people, what you think things should mean to other people, and what their priorities should be, is an ignorant novice mistake.

That it bothers you enough to be mention worthy is an admission that it has power over you.

Also, foreign words or meaningless sounds like mantras are very well documented to be powerful to some, including me. If it's not powerful to you...no loss to me. If you don't have a well loved song in your record collection in a language you don't understand, I would pity you if I were into that sort of thing.