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Featured The Mahdi in the Quran.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Link, Feb 2, 2020.

  1. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    [Shakir 10:102] What do they wait for then but the like of the days of those who passed away before them? Say: Wait then; surely I too am with you of those who wait.
    [Pickthal 10:102] What expect they save the like of the days of those who passed away before them? Say: Expect then! I am with you among the expectant.
    [Yusufali 10:102] Do they then expect (any thing) but (what happened in) the days of the men who passed away before them? Say: "Wait ye then: for I, too, will wait with you."
    ثُمَّ نُنَجِّي رُسُلَنَا وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ حَقًّا عَلَيْنَا نُنْجِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ {103}
    [Shakir 10:103] Then We deliver Our messengers and those who believe-- even so (now), it is binding on Us (that) We deliver the believers.
    [Pickthal 10:103] Then shall We save Our messengers and the believers, in like manner (as of old). It is incumbent upon Us to save believers.
    [Yusufali 10:103] In the end We deliver Our messengers and those who believe: Thus is it fitting on Our part that We should deliver those who believe!


    Let's start with these two verses. I believe they for-warn about the Mahdi.

    There are more verses that contextualize the above, and the waiting of disbelievers vs the waiting of believers, but God has sent many who God delivers the believers by and it's still upon him to deliver the believers from their oppressors.

    I will start with these two verses and we will see that a lot if not most of the Quran warnings are regarding the Mahdi.
     
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  2. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    There's nothing here about the Mahdi.

    You can already give us the other verses and explain why you think it's about him.
     
  3. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    This way of denial is a huge problem. Quranic verses are meant to be reflected about.

    The context is about destruction of past cities and nations, and that similar threat is given to the people of Mohammad. It was possible, that Mohammad's people be destroyed given some conditions. However, this verse, shows, believers (which were local to Mohammad at that time) it's upon God to deliver them from their oppressors. As such it was a threat to the people of Mohammad not to oppress believers and make life hard for them, as they would eventually meant with destruction. Other verses in another Surah showed were it not for some men in Madina (Yathrib) and other helpers, who God would not reveal who they are lest they be attacked, the people of Mohammad would have met destruction for their oppression. So they were lucky, that God spared them for the sake of the Messenger and believers with him and that people of Yathrib invited him over.

    But the application of verses of Quran never die brother. They go on, and it's obvious by the flow and context of other verses of Quran, believers maybe oppressed again as we are today. When the oppressors and Gog and Magog do what they will do, God will do what he will do, and it's always God delivers the believers and destroys the oppressors but this requires a Messenger as God doesn't punish unless he send a Messenger with clear miracles and signs and reminds them of what they forgotten.

    In this regard, this is one of the proofs God will send the Mahdi, but not with a revelation to be held to people, not with Nubuwa, but with job of reviving the message of Quran and with clear miracles. In this regard, Mohammad is still waiting.

    This threat from God is consistent in the past, and would not end with Mohammad. This is why emphasizes "and incumbent upon us is to deliver the believers" to show this is a continuous way.
     
  4. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I refrain from doing this, because, it will be spit fire too much info, as a great deal if not most of Quran I believe is about him. What I will try to do, is show how I've reflected over verses of Quran. Once you get this method of reflection going, he will become clearly in there.
     
  5. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, most people think, if something is not mentioned explicitly, thus it is not there.

    So, I agree Mahdi is implied in those verses and many others, but why do you think He is not mentioned explicitly? Or do you think it is explicit?

    Why are there thousands of hadithes explicitly about Mahdi, but nothing so explicit in the Quran?
     
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  6. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    The Quran needs to prove everything it says, while hadiths just compliment Quran and summarize what is already there. And proofs require sometimes different pieces to put together, while a hadith will assert something that always need to be verified and proven in Quran. Therefore hadiths sometime say something that multiple verses in Quran or entire themes are used to prove. This is why they get to be more explicit. But it's not that any true hadith concerning Islam cannot be verified in Quran.
     
  7. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    I still see nothing about the Mahdi. This is just you thinking (wishing?) there's a meaning other than what it was said.
     
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  8. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    Ok, show us where.
     
  9. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Let me rephrase my question.

    Many verses of Quran implies Mahdi, rather than explicitly talk about Mahdi, The problem with this is, more disagreement among people, and specially among the Muslims. Same with 12 imams. The hadithes talk about 12 imams after Muhammad, but Quran does not explicitly talk about 12 imams, rather, some of its verses implies imams after Muhammad. The problem with this, is, Quran is causing more schism among Muslims. It causes more disagreement. Whereas if God had explicitly talk about 12 imams in Quran, and Mahdi in Quran, there would have been unity among Muslims. There would not be sunni and shia split. All Muslims would have agreed about 12 imams, if they were explicit in Quran. So, why didnt God explicitly say it in Quran to avoid problems and disagreement among Muslims?
    Likewise, in Bible, you cannot find any explicit mention of Muhammad as the next Messenger. There are verses that implies to a new Prophet, which Muslims believe it is Muhammad. But if there were explicit mention of Muhammad in Bible, the jews and Christian's would have believed in Muhammad, and now all would be Muslims, rather then different religions who are in disagreement.
    So, why God does not speak explicitly in the mentioned cases?

    Does Islam have answer to this? I mean Quran or hadith.
     
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  10. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    I will show. But first think about my previous last post to Link: this question....Why, Muhammad is not explicitly mentioned in Bible?
     
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  11. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    What does it say then according to you.
     
  12. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I think Quran is clearer then hadiths about the Mahdi. The Mahdi there is more ambiguity about him in hadiths and more then that, there is contradictions about him, while Quran is clearer in that he is a great warning to humanity, not just a good news.
     
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  13. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I think Quran and hadiths both speak about the dark forces casting a spell on every wish and will of a Prophet, this includes his revelation, and his explanation. This is the problem and has always been. This is one of the wisdom of the two ending Surahs in Quran.

    It's not that it's not clear enough, it's that, there is dark magic that put locks and blow upon knots that have made it difficult to see.
     
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  14. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    Well there can be 2 reasons.
    The first one :

    5.16 O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.

    And you know the Prophet was announced by Jesus :

    61.6 And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." (...)

    5.157 Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel (...)


    The second reason it's maybe a question of semantic (the name of the Prophet for ex) or it depends how we interpret the verses.
    In the verse 5.157 it says the Prophet is still mentioned in the Bible, both Books.


    If you are saying that the Mahdi is also in the Quran, I'm waiting for the verses. Maybe I missed something.
     
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  15. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, according to the verses of Quran you quoted, Muhammad is mentioned in Bible, and also Jesus had told people about Muhammad. Where did Jesus talk about Muhammad? Why it was not written those sayings of Jesus in Bible? Would you be able to quote from Bible and Christian or Jewish sources, those verses and sayings of prophets of past about Muhammad?
     
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  16. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    According to me Allah is warning people. He is telling them to wake up and see what happened before and to not wait until it's to late.
    It can talk about the people who live during the time of the Prophet : wait until you see what's gonna happen (that muslims will win) or wait until you die so you will know if you were right or no.
     
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  17. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    Maybe. I haven't read entirely the Bible but I've seen some verses here and there.

    But the topic is about the Mahdi so I wait to see the verses you are talking about.
     
  18. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    I see it is a good prophecy about the Mahdi and how it will happen.

    Regards Tony
     
  19. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    I see that is how it happens with every Messenger from God.

    The Key thought here is in reflecting on the past. In the time of Jesus, it was not the full body of Jews that were delivered. It was only those that accepted Jesus as the Christ.

    Regards Tony
     
  20. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    To me It is like Quran 3:7 offers;

    "It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding"

    Thus is takes the Mahdi to sort this out, as it is only God that knows the true meanings.

    Regards Tony
     
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