The Lords Prayer - ‘Thine is the Kingdom…’

[muhammad_isa]

Hell has plenty of scriptural backing. Purgatory doesn't have any.

Purgatory is only a word. It refers to a state of being after death.
..as does heaven and hell.

How is it that a believer who is guilty of a mass murder, but a true believer nonetheless, will get treated the same as a saint? i.e. go straight to heaven

 

[Soapy]

I have not found any error in the Trinity doctrine, just the opposite.
The Holy Spirit is spoken of often in the Bible. Do you just ignore that?
So you are ok with Jesus being God if there's no third person?
Thanks for confirming Jesus and the Father are One.

Your desperation gets more ridiculous the more you squirm. I did not confirm what you are claiming in the way you are suggesting. Jesus agreeing with the Father, you imply, makes Jesus the Father.


Now that has got to be the most ridiculous thing ever next to the doctrine of trinity. You suggest a binity nos that you’d trinity is dispelled…

Keep going… you will end up saying that God is one and Jesus is one and the Father is one and therefore as they are all one that means they are the same one…

I have one item that is a car, I have one item that is an apple, I have one item that is a pen… to you, then, the Car, the Apple, and the Pen are ONE SELF SAME ITEM!

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father. It is His Spirit.

Jesus has his own spirit. The Spirit of a person is what is linked to the Will of that person. The spirit is the execution of the Will through the body of a human. God has no body so his Will is executed by His Spirit IN the spirit realm and IN the physical world.

The spirit of the Father is the only spirit that is holy which is why it is often tautologically called ‘The Holy Spirit’…. That is, the spirit of the Father is NATURALLY HOLY therefore it does not need to be constantly written as being holy. It’s like constantly entitling the Father as ‘the Good Heavenly Father’.

I know that by now you realise how wrong your belief was… Honestly, there is no shame in walking away from it: Everyone who turns to the living God and his truth is a glory to God and to Jesus Christ who brought the word of God fully to mankind.

 

[Soapy]

I've listened to a lot of threats coming from Unitarians. l'm resolved not to let you, or any other, deter my unveiling of the error!

If there's any dishonesty here, it exists in your denial that Jesus was perfectly good.

Just because Jesus does not appear perfect in the eyes of some men, does not make him any less perfect in the eyes of his heavenly Father!

Jesus himself said that only God is good; and he meant perfectly good. This is no different to saying that God is without sin, and perfectly holy.

So, let me ask you again. Was Jesus Christ perfectly good and perfectly holy? It's a Yes, or a No!

You are not making any sense. The truth shown to you has turned you doolally! You say that no one can change your mind about the fallacy that you believe - Well, that’s sad for you!

You keep wanting to know if Jesus was perfectly good. I suggest you refer to the answer that Jesus gave when he referred to as ‘Good’. He said:

• ‘Why do you call me good - There is none good but God’

Trinitarians always try to trap unwary opponents with similar questions - and no matter how many times it is answered they persist hoping to get a skewed answer.

I am not as naive as many others who are asked the same question. ‘Good’ is relative. It must be accompanied by a relative subject:

• ‘Good relative to what or who?’

Jesus: Good relative to the absolutely good God?

Jesus: Good relative to the first man, Adam?

Jesus: Good relative to the great patriarch, Abraham?

Jesus: Good relative to King David?

And, even when I pointed out minor failures in the actions of Jesus (actions that are sin-class) you still persist with ludicrous questions as if ignorance is your mainstay. In fact, yes, being in ignorance by your own words is very much your mainstay.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I have one item that is a car, I have one item that is an apple, I have one item that is a pen… to you, then, the Car, the Apple, and the Pen are ONE SELF SAME ITEM!

Oh I see.... If you can't understand God you won't believe in him. I mean comparing God to an apple is pretty silly.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I know that by now you realise how wrong your belief was… Honestly, there is no shame in walking away from it: Everyone who turns to the living God and his truth is a glory to God and to Jesus Christ who brought the word of God fully to mankind.

Nope. I become more convinced that I'm right the longer you talk.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Now that has got to be the most ridiculous thing ever next to the doctrine of trinity. You suggest a binity nos that you’d trinity is dispelled…

What is this?

Purgatory is only a word. It refers to a state of being after death.
..as does heaven and hell.

How is it that a believer who is guilty of a mass murder, but a true believer nonetheless, will get treated the same as a saint? i.e. go straight to heaven

Because of grace.
We are all murderers in our hearts at some point.
The ground at the cross is level. No one person is better than another.

 

[Soapy]

Oh I see.... If you can't understand God you won't believe in him. I mean comparing God to an apple is pretty silly.

Why do you presume God is the Apple. Maybe I meant God was the car?

 

[Soapy]

Nope. I become more convinced that I'm right the longer you talk.

You mean like President Putin is convinced that it is Ukraine that is attacking Russia?

 

[Soapy]

What is this?

Now that has got to be the most ridiculous thing ever next to the doctrine of trinity. You suggest a binity now that your trinity is dispelled…

Your belief is that Jesus and God are both God?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Now that has got to be the most ridiculous thing ever next to the doctrine of trinity. You suggest a binity now that your trinity is dispelled…

Your belief is that Jesus and God are both God?

The Godhead is three in one. They are all three equally God.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Why do you presume God is the Apple. Maybe I meant God was the car?

Still silly to compare God to inanimate objects. As if he has limits and can't be more than one thing at a time. Newsflash, he can be an infinite number of parts and still be One... he has no limits.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Because of grace.
We are all murderers in our hearts at some point.
The ground at the cross is level. No one person is better than another.

No. That makes no sense.
Our deeds don't only have an effect on our lives now, but in the life hereafter too.
Any other belief is meaningless. It's a fantasy world, where people all get treated the same, despite what they might be doing.
Almighty God is not a fool.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No. That makes no sense.
Our deeds don't only have an effect on our lives now, but in the life hereafter too.
Any other belief is meaningless. It's a fantasy world, where people all get treated the same, despite what they might be doing.
Almighty God is not a fool.

Thank God he is merciful, however, and does not give us what we deserve.
Again, no one person is greater than another, that's biblical.
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, “Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons . . .” Acts 10:34 (KJV)

The Greek word that is translated as “respecter” is prosopolemptes. It means “to show favoritism.” God is not partial... God is impartial in His dealings with people.
A few verses later in Acts 10:43 it says that everyone who believes in Jesus Christ will be forgiven their sins.

For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:11 (NASB)

And Jesus said:

Therefore, I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins. John 8:24 (NASB)

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Romans 10:9 (NASB)

 

[muhammad_isa]

..that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Romans 10:9 (NASB)

Cherry-picking a verse from Paul won't help you on the day of judgement.

Notice he says "with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness".
True.

..but it doesn't mean we are no longer sinners.
We all are .. some more than others.
If you want to believe that you will go straight to heaven without question, that's your prerogative..
I certainly don't think that about myself .. or anyone else for that matter.
I think, that just as in this life, we will be brought to account for our misdeeds in a court of law, we will have to answer to the Most High in the next life.

Of course, G-d can forgive whomsoever He wills.
..but isn't it strange, that you think you are guaranteed heaven, just because you believe in a certian creed .. whereas you think that others, who have a different creed .. such as Jews and Muslims, are not so fortunate.

I'll leave it all up to the Almighty.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Cherry-picking a verse from Paul won't help you on the day of judgement.

Notice he says "with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness".
True.

..but it doesn't mean we are no longer sinners.
We all are .. some more than others.
If you want to believe that you will go straight to heaven without question, that's your prerogative..
I certainly don't think that about myself .. or anyone else for that matter.
I think, that just as in this life, we will be brought to account for our misdeeds in a court of law, we will have to answer to the Most High in the next life.

Of course, G-d can forgive whomsoever He wills.
..but isn't it strange, that you think you are guaranteed heaven, just because you believe in a certian creed .. whereas you think that others, who have a different creed .. such as Jews and Muslims, are not so fortunate.

I'll leave it all up to the Almighty.

Lol, I have lots of verses that say belief in Christ is the only condition for salvation. But you continue to deny it's so. No it doesn't mean we don't sin, but it does mean we aren't sinners anymore by definition.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Lol, I have lots of verses that say belief in Christ is the only condition for salvation.

I don't care if you have 500 million.
I like things that make sense.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I don't care if you have 500 million.
I like things that make sense.

Then you should stay away from religion, because it's not about what we think makes sense, it's about what God decides to do.

 

[Soapy]

The Godhead is three in one. They are all three equally God.

What ‘Three’?

You only ever mention TWO persons. For instance in verses such as:

• “I and the Father are one”
• “I am going to the Father”
• “[Father]… You are the ONLY TRUE GOD…”
• “[Father]… You sent me!”
• “He sat down next to the Father”
• “Stephen saw GOD on his throne, and Jesus STANDING next to [GOD]”
• “To the one who sat on the throne (God), AND to the Lamb (Jesus) STANDING in front and centre of the throne AMONGST THE ELDERS (Human Beings : Prophets)

((There’s more and I’ve paraphrased the examples.))

What is ‘missing’ from your TRINITY GODHEAD?

What is a Godhead, anyway. Where does that word come from in scriptures…. I’ve never seen it in a legal verse?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Then you should stay away from religion, because it's not about what we think makes sense..

We all make mistakes .. but if belief in God is not supposed to make sense, then why study religion?
..it would all be non-sense.

 

[Soapy]

Still silly to compare God to inanimate objects. As if he has limits and can't be more than one thing at a time. Newsflash, he can be an infinite number of parts and still be One... he has no limits.

An ANALOGY works for all things since they serve only to show the general aspect of what the theme is about. Jesus ANALOGISED the Kingdom Of Heaven to something the people would know about. That is the same as when he used Parables to illustrate the themes he was talking about: things the people would know about (review the parables and see what I mean).

What you are doing is attempting to waysway the truth of what you are reading from me.

You really aren’t very clever in hiding your deceptive methodology!