"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[3rdAngel]

God did not speak directly to the people in the myth. He told Moses and then he repeated what God said. According to Exodus 34 he was not accurate.

You will need to forgive me dear friend I do not believe you. As shown from the scripture earlier and the context you disregarded Gods' 10 commandments were first spoken by God Himself to His people in Exodus 20:3:17.

Note what the scriptures context says verbatim that are in disagreement with you...

• Exodus 20:1-18 1, And God spoke all these words, saying, 2, I am the LORD your God, which have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3, You shall have no other gods before me. 4, You shall not make to you any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5, You shall not bow down yourself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6, And showing mercy to thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7, You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that takes his name in vain. 8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9, Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: 10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: 11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12, Honor your father and your mother: that your days may be long on the land which the LORD your God gives you. 13, You shall not kill. 14, You shall not commit adultery. 15, You shall not steal. 16, You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 17, You shall not covet your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is your neighbor's. 18, And all the people saw the thunder, and the lightning, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19, And they said to Moses, Speak you with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

God then wrote the 10 commandments down on two tables of stone as shown in Exodus 32:16 as a written record. In Exodus 32:19 Moses smashed the two tables of stone that God wrote the 10 commandment on because he was angry with the children of Israel for making idols and worshiping them after God already spoke to them and wrote the 10 commandments down on two tables of stone. Exodus 34:1 tells us that God said to Moses to cut out two new tables of stone and God would re-write the 10 commandments on them. The same 10 commandment spoken by God to His people in Exodus 20:3-17 and the same 10 commandments written with Gods' own finger in Exodus 32:16. God says he will re-write them again after Moses broke them in Exodus 34:1. Your ignoring scripture context that show where your errors are.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[3rdAngel]

That's not what I said. I said the teaching of the Christian churches, from the beginning, has not been that scripture is the sole source of faith and doctrine. There's no point in trying to prove something about the history of the church by scrabbling about in scripture. That is not where the history of the church is documented.

As posted earlier that is not true at all. My evidence is 2 Timothy 3:15-16; Matthew 4:4; Ephesians 2:8 compare Romans 10:17. You will not find earlier evidence than those.

From the start, the church (and later, churches) believed the apostles and their successors remained divinely inspired and as such could lay out doctrines to clarify and expand upon what is written in the scripture, incorporating these into the traditions of the church.

Man-made teachings and traditions do not supersede scripture see Matthew 15:3-9

It was the excesses and dubious practices that had grown up in the church that led Luther to mount a "back to basics" campaign, insisting on scripture only (sola scriptura). So this was a novelty, introduced by Luther.

Kind of. The Roman Catholic Church was departing Gods' Word as the only rule of faith. All Luther was trying to do was to call the Church back to God and His Word as the only rule of faith.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

Wow. Let’s look at some of the comments that have been made here. Metis has said in Msg #7 that “Friday sundown to Saturday sundown is the "Lord's Day", but since the vast majority of Christians after the 1st century were Gentiles, it really doesn't make any difference which day was chosen. Shabbat is only mandatory for Jews per Torah.”

I really am baffled by this statement. Let me try to grasp your reasoning: Because the majority of Christians after the age of Apostles were Gentiles that makes it OK to change the Law? So if most of the original adherents to Yahshua’s faith were Jews, the Sabbath should be Friday night to Saturday night, but when more gentiles began entering the assembly, this changed to Sunday? Wow. I am really amazed at your reasoning. Sorry, what gives you, or anyone for that matter, a right to change the Law of Yahweh? You cannot just change the Law on a whim, Yahshua has said in Matthew 5 that is easier for the whole world to blow up and be destroyed than it is for one of the merest declarations to pass away from the Law. Yahshua our Savior kept the seventh day Sabbath from Friday evening to Saturday. Is he our example or not? 1 Peter 2:21 tells us he is supposed to be our example. Not a corrupted Ch-rch. If faith in Yahshua the Messiah causes Judaism to be rejected, how much more a Ch-rch who doesn’t keep the faith of Yahshua. A lot of paganism infiltrated True Worship, especially after the age of the Apostles. Act 17:30 says

“30 In the past Yahweh overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

The faith does not change. It's not a reed blown about by the wind. It’s the people that need to change. Let’s just get that point firmly established before we continue in this post.

The second part of metis’ post claims that the Sabbath was for the Jews. Here we have another opinion that has no merit whatsoever. The Sabbath Day was established at creation. It was the day in which Yahweh rested from all His work after 6 literal days of creating this planet in to a paradise. He blessed and hallowed this one day as holy. You cannot sanctify a day as holy, only Yahweh has the power to do that. This was the Sabbath Day. If you keep the Sunday as the Sabbath, you are not going to receive the blessings and sanctification from keeping what should be the correct day holy. Friday sunset to Saturday sunset is holy time. The Sabbath was created before Jews were even around. Adam and Eve would’ve kept the Sabbath Day. They were not Jews.

Have you not read the scripture. Isaiah 56:2 clearly states: “Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that holdeth it fast; that keepeth the sabbath from profaning it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.” The word ‘man’ here proves that it is not simply the Jew that is required to keep the Sabbath.

In msg 2 exchemist says: “Well of course it's a tradition, like so much else in Christianity. Why is that a big deal to you?” Of course this wasn’t addressed to me, but again, tradition should not overrule scripture. If there was a tradition to sacrifice three humans a year and somehow it came in to Chr-stianity, would you agree to it? We have to reject tradition and uphold scripture. Many times traditions come from pagan sources, such as the Xmas celebration. What did our Savior have to say about tradition? “Then there come to Yahshua from Jerusalem Pharisees and scribes, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 And he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of Yahweh because of your tradition?” (Matthew 15:2-3) Well, Yahshua is asking you the same question today and what answer do you have? Why would you adhere to a Sunday Sabbath when Yahweh's commandment tells us to keep the seventh day Sabbath. Because of tradition?

Kenny in msg 19 quotes from Col 2:16, but as I have pointed out, this does not advocate lawlessness. It does not advocate that we should not keep new moon, or Sabbath, or feast day or the dietary laws.

It says: “16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: 17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is the Messiah’s. “

The scripture clearly tells us not to allow man to judge us regarding these things. Yahshua is our judge. You can also read John 5:30. Hence what is says ‘the body is the Messiah’s’. Taking scriptures out of context doesn’t help anyone. Please read verse 17, it tells us these things are a shadow of the things to come. In the Kingdom of Yahweh we will realise the full potential of the Laws of Yahweh, when everyone will be keeping the holy days, the dietary laws etc.

Unfortunately, I don’t have time to go through all 7 pages and respond to all the excuses people are coming up with to get out of keeping the seventh day Sabbath. Even Jews will claim that only they need to keep the Sabbath Day and some of them sadly don’t keep it properly. But, you 3rdAngel keep at it, keep keeping the Sabbath Day. It certainly is a blessed day and they are blessings attached to keeping this holy day properly. May Yahweh bless you.

Thankyou, I enjoyed reading most of this post. Thanks for sharing it. I am sure it will be helpful to some.

 

[3rdAngel]

And Jesus not only had nothing to 'say' about the Sabbath, he didn't have anything to say about drinking, gambling, being respectful in service, dressing moderately, doing drugs, kids out of wedlock etc etc etc..
Funny thing is - you can tell a lot about what he believed just by reading his parables, general doctine and standard of his life.
People loved him so much they 'followed his example', and that's where we get not only gathering on Sunday, but the nature of the service, by the service he had on his last night.

You say Jesus had nothing to say about the Sabbath? Are you sure.....

1. Jesus said He is Lord of the Sabbath day (the Lords day) - Mark 2:27; Matthew 12:8
2. Jesus taught everyone that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day - Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56
3. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath - (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22)

It seems you have may have ignored of not known a lot of scripture that disagrees with you here.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

God created the heavens and earth in six days and rested on the seventh. Sunday would be the eight day, thereby beginning a new cycle. Sunday was the first day and the eighth day, which becomes the new first day of another divine cycle; Son; Sunday. It has it do with a change in dispensation from Old to New Testament.

The first Sunday was connected to the original creation; let there be light! The days of the week then pass with Creation being fine tuned, until the Sabbath or Saturday, when God rests. As God rested, others were put in charge. Satan, for example was placed in charge of humans after the fall, while God was resting.

One is not allowed to work on the Sabbath, so when Adan and Eve fell from paradise, God was resting and did no work, so the fate of Adam and Eve; humans, was left in the hands of the hired help; Satan. Jesus said nobody has seen the Father; God, but the son. This is because God was resting and what humans thought was God answering their prayers, actually his hired help. Satan; Lord of the Earth, who was good and evil like how what was called "God" behaved in the Old Testament.

The second Sunday, after the Sabbath is about a new beginning. This is also a time, when God is no longer resting from the first cycle of creation. Rather he starts to work again and gives the gift of the Holy Spirit through his Son, Jesus. This new spirit of truth is better than just knowledge of good and evil. Faith and the Holy Spirit replace Satan and knowledge of good and evil. Satan is thrown from heaven, along with knowledge of good and evil, which was the theme of the first Sabbath as God rested; law is superseded by Faith.

Just before Jesus began his ministry, he was visited by Satan who promised him all the power and glory of the kingdoms of the earth, if Jesus would bow and serve Satan, the Lord of the Earth. Jesus does not say this is a trick, since he knew Satan had that authority. Instead Jesus refuses the offer. Had Jesus accepted the offer, Jesus would have become the Messiah anticipated in the Old Testament; rich, powerful and able to subdue all enemies. But instead, this undermines Satan's prophetic plan. There is a political battle in Heaven, and Satan is thrown from heaven.

When Jesus was dying on the cross, he pleads to God the Father, ands asks why have you forsaken me. It has to do with God the Father still on his Sabbath rest. Rules were rules. Jesus has to accept the fate that was occurring, until the Father returned to work. Then the Holy Spirit appears; Sunday.

There is only seven days in a week not eight. The above is not biblical or factual.

 

[3rdAngel]

God made Shabbat but didn't mandate it until the time of Moses, whereas Jewish Law [halacha] began to be established.

God people knew and practiced Gods' law before they were re-given it at Mt Sinai - see Genesis 6:5. According to the scriptures the purpose of Gods' 10 commandments of which the Sabbath is the 4th is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken and right doing when obeyed (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 Psalms 119:172 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin (see James 2:10-11)

 

[3rdAngel]

No, the "Law" is Jewish Law [halacha], thus only is mandated for Jews per Torah. Thus, it's not the Law that's changed but whom it applies to varies if one is Jewish versus not. The mandate to obey the Law was first given to Moshe, who then kept giving the Law both during and after Sinai, followed by those who YHWH told Moshe to appoint as a council.

IOW, here: The 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

See above.

OK, so I betcha your "Ch-urch" isn't, right? Gee, where have I seen this before?

Genesis 26:5 Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The Hebrew word used for laws here is תֹּורָה or tôwrâh
Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H8451
תֹּורָה (tôwrâh | to-raw')
Derivation: or תֹּרָה; from יָרָה;
Strong's: a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch

Abraham was not Jewish

.........

Furthermore, the name Israel is not covenant dependent. The name Israel is only a name given by God to His people that believe and follow what His Word says. God never made a promise to gentiles believers. Gods' new covenant promise was only ever made to Israel so if your not a part of God's Israel you have no part in Gods' new covenant promise (see Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:10-12). According to Romans 11:13-26 Gentile believes are now grafted in to God's Israel through the blood of Christ and we are all now one in Christ.

God's Israel therefore in the new covenant are no longer only those born of the flesh but are now only all those who are born of the Spirit into Gods' new covenant promise through faith.

• ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

• ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

• COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.
  
  ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

• EPHESIANS 2:11-14 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

• GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

If you are not a part of Gods' Israel then according to the scriptures you have no part in God's new covenant promises. Therefore being a part of Gods' Israel all Gods' laws are to be obeyed from the heart and breaking anyone of them is sin according to the new covenant scriptures (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 compare James 2:10-11; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:2-3; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 etc)

Hope this is helpful.

 

[3rdAngel]

I don't celebrate Jewish law because I am not Jewish and don't have to. I celebrate a day of rest in Honor of Jesus which is more than can be said for some people.

There is no scripture to support these teachings. Its time to unlearn the lies they have been teaching us from Sunday school. According to the scriptures if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin and death (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4: James 2:10-11; Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4).

 

[3rdAngel]

I believe some people would not know God from a hole in the wall which is why they follow a law of death instead of a law of life.

According to the scriptures Gods' law is holy just and good (Romans 7:12) and is what gives us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin. It is sin that brings death *see Romans 6:23 not Gods' law. All God's law does is to give us the knowledge of right doing when obeyed and sin when not obeyed. The purpose of Gods' law in the new covenant is to show us that we are all sinners in need of Gods' salvation *Romans 3:9-23 and to lead us to Christ that we might receive Gods' forgiveness through faith see Galatians 3:22-25

 

[3rdAngel]

Good questions. In the Tanakh (or OT) thre were the
ORDINANCES - religious observances such as diet, dress, holy days etc
JUDGEMENTS - legal stuff mostly such as inheritances, civil law
COMMANDMENTS - moral observations

These three get mixed up somewhat. I hold that Sabbath observance is an ORDINANCE, like observing the Passover and the various feast days
Jesus' take on the issue is summarized in Matthew 5,6 and 7 - it's heavily into moral and character issues with no mention of things like special days.
Example: there are dietary rules in the Tanakh, Jesus dispensed with these by stating that whatever enters a person does not defile them - it's what comes out of that person that matters.
And yet Jesus' own church DID observe a Sabbath - it just wasn't Saturday.

According to the scriptures Gods 10 commandments are Gods' 10 commandments *Exodus 20:3-17. God's 4th commandment is the seventh day Sabbath of creation *see Exodus 20:8-11 from Genesis 2:1-3. Therefore Gods' 4th commandment is a moral observation or our duty of love to God just like not taking the Lords name in vain by pretending we are Christian and following him but not doing what he asks us to do and breaking His laws.

 

[3rdAngel]

I did not say that the OT is no longer applicable to Christians. It is as much the word of God as the NT is.
It is the Law of Moses however, which includes the 10 commandments, which is part of the Covenant of Moses, the Old Covenant and not part of the New Covenant that Jesus is mediator of (and which was promised in the OT)
The OT points to Jesus and the New Covenant and shows Jesus to be the true Jewish Messiah, without the OT as a witness to Jesus, Jesus would be just some guy making unjustifiable claims.

According to the scriptures, God's 10 commandments are the law of God. God's law was written and made by God alone on two tables of stone and spoken by God himself to his people and nothing was to be added to it. (God's LAW; Exodus 32:16; 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; 10:4; Exodus 20; Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Ps 119:172; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 8:10-12; Galatians 3:24; Deuteronomy 5:22; Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 10:4 Ecclesiastes 3:14; Exodus 25:16; Deuteronomy 10:5)

It is called God's Law or the 10 Commandment, because he was the one alone who made it and commanded Moses to keep in separated from the book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Nehemiah 10:29; Deuteronomy 10:4-5; Deuteronomy 31:25-26; Deuteronomy 4:13; Exodus 34:28)
God's law was not made by Moses it was made by God alone on two tables of stone and nothing was to be added to it and it was to be separated from the Mosaic book of the law. That is why it is referred to in the scriptures as God's LAW or the 10 commandments (not the 613). The Mosaic law was made and written and spoken by Moses as directed by God in the book of the covenant. (Mosaic Book of the law; Deuteronomy31:9; Exodus 24:3-4; Deuteronomy 31:24-27; Colossians 2:14-17).

Hope this is helpful.

 

[3rdAngel]

@3rdAngel

The only time the expression "The Lord's Day" is used in the Bible is in revelation, and it doesn't mention which day of the week it was. To find out which day it refers to, you have to go to Christian writings outside the Bible, which clearly state that the Lord's Day is not the Sabbath:

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

Hi Indigo nice to meet you. According to the scriptures, you do not need to go outside of the bible to know what day "the Lords day" is. The Lords day is clearly defined in the bible.

The term "the Lord's day" was used by some in the early Church as a reference to Sunday worship in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It comes from a scripture in the bible found in Revelation 1

• REVELATION 1:10 10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for Lord's day are

• REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23

The problem here however is that there is not a single scripture that references Sunday or the first day of the week (bible names for the days of the week) to being "the Lords day" in scripture.

According to the scripture "the Lords day" however can be referenced to "the Sabbath day" of Gods' 4th commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11.

Letting the scriptures answer this question

• WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the Church as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday. Yet there is many scriptures referencing "the Lords day" or Gods' specific claims to ownership of any particular day to the Sabbath day that he blessed and set aside as a holy day of rest for a memorial of creation (see Genesis 2:1-3) and made one of Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11).

God's "ownership" of the Sabbath day or "Lord's day is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)

• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.

• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.

............................

Your challenge here in this OP is to prove from the scriptures alone that the Lord's DAY is in reference to the First day of the week. If you cannot all you have is a teaching and tradition of men that is not supported in the scriptures. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that refers to Sunday as being "the Lords day".

 

[3rdAngel]

Indeed.

Why would I prefer a Christian view of this to the Jewish view?

The Sabbath is a Jewish idea.

The Christian one is a later devising, I suspect for political reasons ─ it can't be down to a Christian appetite for strict historical accuracy.

Hey blu nice to meet you. You are correct. It was the Jews who started Christianity.

God bless.

 

[3rdAngel]

Romans 14 certainly has to do with the Sabbath.

Then perhaps you can show me a single scripture, Romans 14 that mentions the Sabbath and is not really talking about eating and not eating on days that that men esteem over other day?

 

[3rdAngel]

The Jewish observation of the Saturday Sabbath continued unabated, I dare say. Certainly there's no suggestion to the contrary.

But of course if you can point me to a quote of Jesus saying, "Listen up, y'all, no more Saturdays! No, it's Sundays from here on in, and don't you forget it!" ─ well, then I'll be better informed.


PS I notice from Wikipedia that Eastern Christianity keeps the Saturday Sabbath, as do the Mormons. So as for the Western Christians with the Sunday Sabbath I'm reminded of the Irish joke (from back when Irish jokes were permissible) of the lady watching the army parade and saying proudly, "They're all out of step except my Paddy!"

Perfect! This is based on historical evidence of both scripture and the early Church after Jesus and the Apostles. Although I do not think the Mormons keep the seventh day Sabbath of Gods'10 commandments

 

[3rdAngel]

But just because the RCC says it doesn't mean it's historically accurate, however doctrinally accurate it may be.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are four gospels, not one, no? The first one written was Mark, around 75 CE. There was one earlier version of Jesus, namely Paul's. Of the other three models of Jesus, Matthew and Luke have similarities, but John's is closer in many ways to Paul's.
No, Paul never met Jesus. And he says

Galatians 1:11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not man's gospel. 12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.​

and what Paul claims to know about the biography of Jesus will fit into two or three lines.
In my view that claim is not sustainable. There are five distinct versions of Jesus in the NT. Paul's and John's are influenced by gnosticism, lived in heaven with God, and created the material universe. Mark's is an ordinary Jew who doesn't become son of God till God adopts him (on the model of David in Psalm 2:7) on his baptism; and Matthew's and Luke's are the product of the divine insemination of a virgin.

So refreshing to see someone educated on the subject matter. Thank you.

 

[3rdAngel]

According to my q&d look at the net, no one knows just when Western Christians got all Sundayly ─ and a lot of Christians still observe Saturday. But (given an historical Jesus) it seems more than clear that it didn't have in the lifetime of Jesus, who was a circumcised Jew and a player in the Jewish religious scene. Nothing he says indicates any unorthodoxy about the date of the Sabbath.

Agreed. There is historical evidence that Gods' 4th commandment has been kept unbroken from the days of Jesus and after Jesus death through the Apostles in the scriptures to this very present day. The change of the Sabbath to Sunday was a gradual one in the RCC then spread from here to the rest of Christianity.

 

[PruePhillip]

Agreed. There is historical evidence that Gods' 4th commandment has been kept unbroken from the days of Jesus and after Jesus death through the Apostles in the scriptures to this very present day. The change of the Sabbath to Sunday was a gradual one in the RCC then spread from here to the rest of Christianity.

Good point, but as usual its complicated. By 'commandment' I don't just mean the ten commandments but all moral injunctions. 'Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth' is a moral commandment.
And the author of Revelation, John, could say, 'I was in the spirit on the Lord's day.' He didn't say the Sabbath but the day of his Lord Jesus - and to John's church that was Sunday. There was still a day of rest, only to the foudation church it was the first day and not the last day.

 

[PruePhillip]

You say Jesus had nothing to say about the Sabbath? Are you sure.....

1. Jesus said He is Lord of the Sabbath day (the Lords day) - Mark 2:27; Matthew 12:8
2. Jesus taught everyone that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day - Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56
3. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath - (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22)

It seems you have may have ignored of not known a lot of scripture that disagrees with you here.

Take Care.

And Jesus came to his own temple, taught in the temple, overthrew the money changers in the temple, was presented to the temple as a child.
Yet... he said God doesn't dwell in the temple, and he destroyed the temple.
Jesus fulfilled the law in coming to the temple, and he did away with temple worship (something the later Catholics did not understand.)

And here we see people coming together on the Sunday after his decease. And Jesus appeared to them.
And the following Sunday the same people again came together, and Jesus appeared. Why were they coming together? Either as a memorial to him or they were told by him.
Now, Acts 2 Day of Pentecost these Christians were gathered together in a home on the Sunday.
From these events Christians observed home memorials on the Sunday - this later became, in Gentile societies, the new Sabbath.

 

[PruePhillip]

Don't blame me,. His whole approach to morality was extremely vague and inefficient. Had he been worth his salt, he'd have said, Do no harm, and treat others with decency, respect and inclusion (and saved me the trouble). But as the thousands of Christian sects around the world demonstrate, Christians tend to find inclusion difficult, schism easy, and thus fragmentation natural.

Here you judge Jesus by people who claim to follow him. HOW you serve him is fairly clear in scripture - by his doctrine and by his example.
So anyone killing another in the name of God clearly violates this law - and there are countless ways 'Do not kill' are stated in the New Testament, even to the point of praying, loving and even healing those who would kill you. Seeing a Catholic, for example, kill someone on the Inquisition, says nothing about Christ but a lot about that church.