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Featured The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 3rdAngel, Nov 15, 2019.

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  1. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    You have been provided Gods Word which are not my words but God's. I am sorry my friend this is only more of your words denying Gods' Word when only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. We will have to agree to disagree. :)
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Wrong. It’s your interpretation of biblical texts. If you were spouting Gods words, you’d be a prophet. You’re no prophet.
     
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  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Yet here you still are 34+ pages latter denying God's Word with your words and not able to prove a single thing that you claim. Does this not worry you? It should because only God's Word is true and we should beleive and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *ROMANS 3:4; MATTHEW 15:2-9 as it is written he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him *JOHN 3:34
     
  4. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Ditto
     
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  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    As posted elsewhere I believe that there is no ditto for you. You have been provided Gods' Word as supporting evidence to this OP. You on the other hand have only denied God's Word with your own words that are not God's but yours.
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Nope. You’re no prophet. Claiming to be one don’t make you one. Your words do not ring true.
     
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  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him. *JOHN 3:31
     
  8. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    Actually Christ is the 'true Israel', and Christ is made up of a head, and a body. The body, the Church, consists of both Jew and Gentile. Paul's epistle to the Hebrews was written to a Jewish congregation of the Church, probably in Jerusalem, and in it he reminds them of the promise in Jeremiah 31.

    But this makes little difference to our disagreement, because our disagreement is about what it means to live by grace. Here is how I understand your gospel of grace.

    • The Ten Commandments are God's law [as distinguished from the whole law of Moses].
    • Unlike the law of Moses, the Ten Commandments are for ever, and do not come to an end.
    • Under the Old Testament, sin prevented the children of Israel from doing the Ten Commandments and the whole law.
    • Christ took away sin, and by faith in Christ we can now receive the Holy Spirit and DO the Ten Commandments. The Holy Spirit gives the Church, 'the true Israel', a new heart to do the Ten Commandments.
    • Since the Fourth Commandment is one of the Ten Commandments, we should still keep the Friday/Saturday sabbath [which is the seventh day according to a continuous tradition from Genesis 2:3].
    Tell me if this is a fair summary. Let's see if we can get to the heart of the issue.

    At the moment, I see your stylus as stuck in a record groove, and it's not playing Gospel music!
     
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  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    I believe where your missing the point here is that if both JEWS and Gentile believers are now a part of God's true ISRAEL then that means all scripture is given for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come *2 TIMOTHY 3:16 and we are to live by every word of it *MATTHEW 4:4. Respectfully dear brother your argument here is a silly one. Why? That is just like saying that the four Gospels are only written for JEWS therefore not relevant to gentile believers. Can you see where your reasoning is leading you and why it is not true?

    Here let me provide some comments below...

    Lets be clear here as all the torah (all laws) are Gods laws however the 10 Commandments are specifically God's laws as it is the work of God alone written by God on two tables of stone and spoken by God alone and called God's law *EXODUS 32:16; EXODUS 20:1-17; NEHEMIAH 10:29. The book of the law or covenant is the work of Moses as directed by God and written and spoken by Moses alone *EXODUS 24:7; DEUTERONOMY 31:24. Both God's LAW (10 commandments) and the Mosaic book of the law collectively made up the old covenant and were separated and housed in the Ark of the covenant. God's LAW (10 commandments) were place "inside" the Ark of the covenant while the Mosaic book of the laws and ordinances were placed in the side of the ark of the covenant *DEUTERNOMY 31: 26; DEUTERONOMY 10:2.

    The MOSAIC laws for remission of sins are called "SHADOW" laws *HEBREWS 10:1-7 as they were prophetic in nature pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant. This is shown in detail in HEBREWS 7; HEBREWS 8; HEBREWS 9; HEBREWS 10; COLOSSIANS 2. While the scriptures teach that God's LAW (10 commandments) are the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. God's LAW is the work of God alone *EXODUS 32:16. I believe the scriptures teach that "I know that, WHATSOEVER GOD DOES, IT SHALL BE FOREVER: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God does it, that men should fear before him". *ECCLESIASTES 3:14

    Not everyone, please read HEBREWS 11. God's people in the old covenant were saved the same way as Gods people in the new covenant and that is by faith. The only difference is that they looked forward in faith to the coming of the Messiah through sin offerings, and the ceremonial laws and sacrifices in ordinances and feast days while we look back to the Cross of JESUS and see the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world *JOHN 1:29; JOHN 1:36.

    Yes. this is what it means to be born again to love and is God's new covenant promise of a new heart to love and live in newness of life and walk in God's Spirit *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:4; GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; HEBREWS 8:10; ROMANS 13:8-10; MATTHEW 22:36-40; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14. Sin (breaking God's LAW) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:10. This is the promise of JESUS of salvation by faith in God's Word as written in JOHN 8:31-36. (read the scriptures provided)

    God's 4th Commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. According to God's WORD alone, All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23 and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *HEBREWS 10:26-39.

    All the above however are only a part of the everlasting Gospel as the everlasting Gospel is every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

    Now do you want to know what is my Gospel of Grace?

    Well my Gospel of grace is JESUS (the Word of God) *JOHN 1:1-4; JOHN 1:14 and every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God *MATTHEW 4:4. His Words are Spirit and his Words of life *JOHN 6:63 and we are to live by every word of God and all scripture that is given by inspiration of God *2 TIMOTHY 3:16. This is my gospel that I am sharing with you my dear brother. It is God's Word and it is indeed good news for all those who have ears to hear and eyes to see the love that God has for us in giving us his only begotten son that who so ever believes in him (the Word) shall not perish but have everlasting life *JOHN 3:16-21. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. There is no GRACE without God's LAW as it is God's LAW that leads us to God's GRACE that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25 but many do not know the meaning *MATTHEW 9:12-13.

    May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear as it will be our judge come judgment day dear brother *JOHN 12:47-48.
     
    #669 3rdAngel, Mar 19, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  10. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I don’t think you have a call.
     
  11. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    I'll amend the statements that summarize your belief, but please feel free to add anything extra.

    You believe:
    • The Ten Commandments are God's eternal law [as distinguished from the book of the law of Moses, the complete Torah, Genesis to Deuteronomy].
    • Whilst the sin of the faithful, from Adam to Jesus Christ [Hebrews 11], was 'not imputed', sin was accounted to those 'under the law'.
    • Christ took away sin, and by faith in Christ we can now receive the Holy Spirit and DO the Ten Commandments. Those who receive Christ are called the Church ['the true Israel'], and it is they that have received a new heart to do the Ten Commandments.
    • Since the Fourth Commandment is one of the Ten Commandments, we should still keep the Friday/Saturday sabbath [which is the seventh day according to a continuous tradition from Genesis 2:3]. This is because obedience to the Ten Commandments is the fruit of God's work in us.
    Is this a fair summary?
     
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  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    What you think my call or not call is is irrelavant my dear friend but JESUS says by their fruits you shall know them. Those who hear His Voice (the Word) believe and follow him. Those who do not believe and do not follow are not His but theives and robbers. He is the door yet those who do not believe and follow seek to enter in through another way. He is the way to the road that is dark and narrow but those who do not believe do not know the way and are lost because they walk in darkness not having their lamps to light the way.
     
    #672 3rdAngel, Mar 19, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  13. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Now dear brother I believe I have made myself very clear what my Gospel of Grace is in post # 669 linked and even showing why from the scriptures, don't you? Why do you still not understand? Are you reading my posts to you and the scriptures provided?
     
  14. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    I am seeking clarity.

    This is the opportunity for you to tell me whether I have understood correctly. I have amended the points, and all I ask is that you agree, or disagree, with each of my summary points.
     
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  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Goodness dear brother I cannot get any more clearer to you than what I shared with you in post # 669 linked to answer your questions. If your not clear perhaps you need to re-read this post and the scriptures shared in it, as I have been honest with you and even shown you why I believe everything that I have stated with you providing the scriptures from God's Word which are God's Words and not mine but God's. What is it in this post you do not understand? Providing the list you posted is not what I shared with you in post # 669 linked now is it? I am not bound by lists but every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God which is good news to those who believe and follow.
     
    #675 3rdAngel, Mar 19, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  16. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    If the Ten Commandments are eternal, then they must have been in existence with Adam. Do you agree?
     
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  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    I believe according to the scriptures that before the fall (sin) mankind walked in perfect harmony (LOVE) with God because there was no sin. No law was needed because there was no knowledge of what sin was because mankind did not sin but was in LOVE with God. The knowledge of GOOD and EVIL only came after mankind sinned against God. When mankind sinned he received the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL. He was then driven out of the garden of Eden and presence of God *GENESIS 3:1-24. God is LOVE and he that dwelleth in love dweleth in God and God in him *1 JOHN 4:16. God's LAW is indeed eternal as they are the expression of LOVE to God and man on which all the law and the prophets hang *MATTHEW 22:36-40. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3. This is why JESUS says if you love me keep my commandments. *JOHN 14:15. Love is expressed in obedience to God's LAW. Sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments separates us from God and love *ISAIAH 59:2 and is why we need God's salvation and a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10; JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; ROMANS 13:8-10. Those who practice sin (breaking God's commandments) and those who do not is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14 and is why JESUS says you shall know them by their fruits *MATTHEW 7:16-26. I believe you my friend are only seeking excuses to break God's Law for which we will all be held accountable *JOHN 12:47-48; JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 2:12-13. As it is written we should all examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not *2 CORINTHIANS 13:5 and ask ourselves the question what is our fuit *1 JOHN 2:3-4. We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of LOVE which is God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW what Gods Word says *PHILIPPIANS 2:13. Doing what God's Word says is the FRUIT of faith that works by a new heart that LOVES *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

    May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disdappear.
     
    #677 3rdAngel, Mar 19, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  18. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    Your Gospel of grace is not the same as Paul's, who says
    'But what things were gain for me, those I counted loss for Christ.
    Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
    And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:' [Philippians 3:7-9]

    The works of man can be defined as 'mine own righteousness'. This why Paul says, 'Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.' [Romans 4:6]

    Paul also says, 'But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.' [Romans 7:6]

    Again, for the purpose of stressing a point, he says, 'For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.' [Romans 10:4]

    To say that Christ is the END OF THE LAW, is the same as saying that the law has been fulfilled in Christ. He has done everything required by the law. That's why, when he was crucified He said, 'It is finished'. The new covenant has now come into effect, and it's a better covenant than the one that preceded it. This new covenant is a covenant in Christ, in His Spirit.

    John 17:25,26. 'O righteous Father, the world hath not know thee: but I [Jesus] have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
    And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.'

    It's LOVE that has been given unto us as the new covenant in Christ. We are now to live by the Spirit of love and not the letter of the law. We are 'new creations' in Christ. As scripture says, 'put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved'.
     
    #678 Redemptionsong, Mar 19, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense my dear friend. All your post shows is that you did not read what you are quoting from or any of my other posts and scriptures shared with you as to what it is I believe. If you did you would not have posted what you just did. There is no where in the post you are quoting from or any where else in this thread or elsewhere where I have said we get our own righteoussness by keeping the law. So everything you have posted here is irrelevant to what you are quoting from. Neither does it address anything or any of the scriptures in the post you are quoting from. Your post is only a strawman argument your trying to make that no one is making or believes. Shame on you when I have told you directly what I believe and do not beleive what you are saying I believe. You did not read what you were quoting from did you. So the scriptures are fulfilled saying, Go to this people, and say, Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them *MATTHEW 13:14; ACTS 28:26:27. All your seeking to do is to justify sin (breaking God's 10 commandments) which separates us from God *ISIAHA 59:2 and by this deny the power of God to save you from sin which is the good news of the Gospel of JESUS Christ *JOHN 8:31-36. These are those it is written that have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof from which we should turn away *2 TIMOTHY 3:5 and who JESUS says depart from me you who practice sin I never knew you *MATTHEW 7:22-23

    May you receive Gods Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear as it will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48
     
    #679 3rdAngel, Mar 19, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  20. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    The reason I don't believe what you say about grace is that your conclusions are incompatible with the gospel of grace preached by Paul. The conclusion you reach is that the Church, both Jew and Gentile, is under an obligation to cease work on a Friday night in accordance with Jewish tradition. You say that we are under an obligation to spend Friday/ Saturday worshiping God and resting. I say that this is the letter of the law, a work of man's own righteousness, not the Gospel of grace.
     
    #680 Redemptionsong, Mar 20, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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