The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

[metis]

Look, give it a break, for Roman Catholicism says much worse about true Protestants, like Luther, etc, even to this day, and including the King James Bible, etc.

Seems that you missed my comment that you quote whereas I said "My church doesn't do that any longer...", so I hope you know what that implies, right?

What in Roman Catholicism (or simply catholicism) appealed to you to leave your fundamentalist Protestant upbringing (what if I may ask)?

Four main things: 1.its anti-science agenda (especially opposed to the ToE, but some other areas as well); 2.racism, which was the final straw for me; 3.the fact that I kept on hearing how bad Catholicism and other denominations and religions supposedly are; and 4.the aggressive and judgmental attitude of the pastors and many all too of the lay.

I dated a Catholic girl back during my undergrad years, and we went to mass several times, and I really witnessed a different demeanor there than what I experience for years in my church. However, I ended up marrying another Catholic woman by coincidence, and we went to mass together even though I had no interest in converting until 8 years after we were married.

Thus, I very much experienced what the Church was really like as compared to what I had been taught at my former church, including the fact that in my 50+ years of attending mass on a weekly basis, never once did I hear a priest or bishop attack another Christian denomination. Under the Gospel, we are not to "cause division" as Paul taught, and Jesus said that if they're not against us then others can preach as well.

Jesus taught love-love-love, not hate-hate-hate, nor bigotry-bigotry-bigotry. I have not attacked the SDA, and I live about 200 yards from one and have gone there, but simply wasn't impressed-- but that's just me. I used to teach a comparative religions course, so I've been "around the block" a few times, needless to say, and I've gone to services in the six largest religions and almost all of the major Christian denominations. I've also taught theology at a Reform synagogue and a Catholic church for about 30+ years now.

Did I answer your question?

 

[syo]

SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

yes.

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day.

yes.

So?

 

[coconut theology]

Seems that you missed my comment that you quote whereas I said "My church doesn't do that any longer...", so I hope you know what that implies, right? ...

I am directly saying that it does - present tense and offered to cite them for you.

 

[coconut theology]

...Jesus taught love-love-love, not hate-hate-hate ...

Love is not exclusive of hate (in the proper sphere):

Rev_3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Psa_119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Psa_119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

Rev_2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Rev_2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Psa_5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psa_45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Psa_139:22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Psa_97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psa_101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

Psa_119:113 SAMECH. I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.

Psa_119:163 I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.

Psa_139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

Pro_6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

Pro_8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Isa_61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

Jer_44:4 Howbeit I sent unto you all my servants the prophets, rising early and sending them, saying, Oh, do not this abominable thing that I hate.

Amo_5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.

Amo_5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.

Zec_8:17 And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD.

Mat_6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Luk_14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luk_16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Ecc_3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

 

[coconut theology]

...Did I answer your question?

Thank you for answering as you have. It helps me to understand your position better. It is appreciated that you took the time to do that.

 

[coconut theology]

... Four main things: 1.its anti-science agenda (especially opposed to the ToE, but some other areas as well) ...

You are saying that you believe in the 'toe' (theory of evolution)? Why? Even "catholic" and/or Roman Catholic scholars reject that false ideology as of pagan origin.

For instance, the vast majority of so-called "ECF" were YEC, and believed in the global flood (not an ethnocentric (local) one):

You can see the full listing here - 7000 Year Plan Of The Everlasting Gospel – Bible & Historical Quotations (PDF)

Even Richard Challoner, the Roman Catholic Bible commentator and reviser of the Jesuit Douay Rheims, believed in YEC (6K):

Richard Challoner (Roman Catholic Bishop; reviser of the Douay Rheims (Jesuit) Bible and noted commentator) (1691–1781) -

"... the world has not yet lasted six thousand years ..." - Think Well On't or Reflections on the Great Truths of the Christian Religion, for every day in the month., by Bishop Challoner, and Thirty Days' Prayer; Clefton, Bristol. Printed and Published by G. Bowen. Sold also by S. Gilbert, 26, Paternoster Row; F.A. Little, Henrietta Street, Covent Garden; Rockliff & Ellis, Liverpool; Spencer, Bath; Clark, Southampton; Lellim Newport, Isle of Wight; and all Booksellers. MDCCCXLI. (1841)- page 52 - Think Well On't, Or, Reflections on the Great Thruths of the Christian Religion​

The so-called 'sainted angelic holy doctor' of Rome, Thomas Aquinas in the monumental work, Summa Theologica (still having Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, and stamped with the approval of the Sedi Sapientiae (Mary), is YEC and a believer in the global flood (which negates any so-called 'toe'):

Thomas Aquinas (1225 – 7 March 1274) -

[He begins by rebutting and refuting Augustine] "...by the "evening" and the "morning" ... But, according to Basil (Hom. ii in Hexaem.), the entire period takes its name, as is customary, from its more important part, the day. And instance of this is found in the words of Jacob, "The days of my pilgrimage," where night is not mentioned at all. But the evening and the morning are mentioned as being the ends of the day, since day begins with morning and ends with evening, or because evening denotes the beginning of night, and morning the beginning of day. It seems fitting, also, that where the first distinction of creatures is described, divisions of time should be denoted only by what marks their beginning. And the reason for mentioning the evening first is that as the evening ends the day, which begins with the light, the termination of the light at evening precedes the termination of the darkness, which ends with the morning. But Chrysostom's explanation is that thereby it is intended to show that the natural day does not end with the evening, but with the morning (Hom. v in Gen.). ...

Reply to Objection 7. The words "one day" are used when day is first instituted, to denote that one day is made up of twenty-four hours. Hence, by mentioning "one," the measure of a natural day is fixed. Another reason may be to signify that a day is completed by the return of the sun to the point from which it commenced its course. And yet another, because at the completion of a week of seven days, the first day returns..." - Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Question 74, Article 3, Reply to Objection 6 and 7 [The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas
Second and Revised Edition, 1920
Literally translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province
Online Edition Copyright © 2008 by Kevin Knight
Nihil Obstat. F. Innocentius Apap, O.P., S.T.M., Censor. Theol.
Imprimatur. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasterii.
APPROBATIO ORDINIS
Nihil Obstat. F. Raphael Moss, O.P., S.T.L. and F. Leo Moore, O.P., S.T.L.
Imprimatur. F. Beda Jarrett, O.P., S.T.L., A.M., Prior Provincialis Angliæ

MARIÆ IMMACULATÆ - SEDI SAPIENTIÆ] - SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: All the seven days in common (Prima Pars, Q. 74)​

Let us see what Thomas Aquinas [Summa Theologica] himself says how it came to be that the Roman Catholic church observes the 'first [day] of the week'; aka, Sunday, and He says that it was not God - not Jesus, not even the Apostles that changed the day from the 7th Day to that of the first, but He clearly says it was "...by the institution of the Church and the custom of Christian people..." and he also says that the Sabbath Commandment of the Decalogue is that which "...describes the exterior worship of God as the sign of a universal boon that concerns all." and the "...sign of this we are commanded to keep holy seventh day..." and "the reason for it is given: "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth . . . and rested on the seventh day."".

So even Thomas Aquinas understood that the 7th Day Sabbath Commandment points out the Creator of All and was given for All [not just Jew; for he says, "a universal boon"], and directly cited Exodus 20:11:

"I answer that, ...Now the precepts of the decalogue are, so to speak, first and common principles of the Law, and consequently the third precept of the decalogue describes the exterior worship of God as the sign of a universal boon that concerns all. This universal boon was the work of the Creation of the world, from which work God is stated to have rested on the seventh day: and sign of this we are commanded to keep holy seventh day--that is, to set it aside as a day to be given to God. Hence after the precept about the hallowing of the Sabbath the reason for it is given: "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth . . . and rested on the seventh day." ..."

"...Reply to Objection 4. In the New Law the observance of the Lord's day took the place of the observance of the Sabbath, not by virtue of the precept but by the institution of the Church and the custom of Christian people. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Summa Theologica; Thomas Aquinas; "Second Part of the Second Part "; "Question 122. The precepts of justice"; "Article 4. Whether the third precept of the decalogue, concerning the hallowing of the Sabbath, is fittingly expressed?"'

The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas
Second and Revised Edition, 1920
Literally translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province
Online Edition Copyright © 2008 by Kevin Knight
Nihil Obstat. F. Innocentius Apap, O.P., S.T.M., Censor. Theol.
Imprimatur. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasterii.
APPROBATIO ORDINIS
Nihil Obstat. F. Raphael Moss, O.P., S.T.L. and F. Leo Moore, O.P., S.T.L.
Imprimatur. F. Beda Jarrett, O.P., S.T.L., A.M., Prior Provincialis Angliæ

MARIÆ IMMACULATÆ - SEDI SAPIENTIÆ] - SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The precepts of justice (Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 122)​

Thomas Aquinas on the Globality of the Fire to consume all things, likened unto the Globality of the Flood [sections throughout Summa Theologica, Suppliment, Question 74]...

"Article 3. Whether the fire whereby the world will be cleansed will be of the same species with elemental fire? ... it is declared that the fire of the judgment will rise as high as the waters of the deluge; ... following Augustine, say that "just as the deluge resulted from an outpouring of the waters of the world, so the fashion of this world will perish by a burning of worldly flames" (De Civ. Dei. xx, 16). ... by the Divine power ... the fire that will burn the surface of this world will result. ..."

"...Further, a gloss on 2 Thessalonians 1:8, "In a flame of fire giving vengeance," says: "There will be in the world a fire that shall precede Him, and shall rise in the air to the same height as did the waters of the deluge." But the waters of the deluge did not rise to the height of the higher heavens but only 15 cubits higher than the mountain summits (Genesis 7:20). Therefore the higher heavens will not be cleansed by that fire. ..."

"...Reply to Objection 2. Peter explains himself to which heavens he refers. For before the words quoted, he had said (2 Peter 3:5-7): "The heavens . . . first, and the earth . . . through water . . . perished . . . which . . . now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire unto the day of judgment." Therefore the heavens to be cleansed are those which before were cleansed by the waters of the deluge, namely the aerial heavens. ..."

"...Further, this final cleansing that will be effected by fire will correspond to the first cleansing which was effected by water...."

"...the authority of Scripture, because it is written (2 Peter 3:7) that those heavens are "kept in store unto fire," which were cleansed by water; and Augustine says (De Civ. Dei xx, 18) that "the same world which perished in the deluge is reserved unto fire."..." [The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas
Second and Revised Edition, 1920
Literally translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province
Online Edition Copyright © 2008 by Kevin Knight
Nihil Obstat. F. Innocentius Apap, O.P., S.T.M., Censor. Theol.
Imprimatur. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasterii.
APPROBATIO ORDINIS
Nihil Obstat. F. Raphael Moss, O.P., S.T.L. and F. Leo Moore, O.P., S.T.L.
Imprimatur. F. Beda Jarrett, O.P., S.T.L., A.M., Prior Provincialis Angliæ

MARIÆ IMMACULATÆ - SEDI SAPIENTIÆ] - SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The fire of the final conflagration (Supplementum, Q. 74)​

 

[coconut theology]

... Four main things: 1.its anti-science agenda (especially opposed to the ToE ...

YEC, and those that taught a global flood which destroys any time for even a little 'toe':

You are saying that you believe in the 'toe' (theory of evolution)? Why? Even "catholic" and/or Roman Catholic scholars reject that false ideology as of pagan origin.

Sextus Julius Africanus (c. 160 – c. 240) - (please keep in mind, that while he believed chronologically in a less than 6,000 year old earth from Creation, his (as others) math was off due to his using of the Greek (so called septuaginta; LXX; Origens Hexapla) inflated numbers, rather than the Hebrew texts, which would have given him 4,000 years (est.) to the birth of Christ Jesus, from Creation.)

"... [page 130] III. The Extant Fragments of the Five Books of the Chronography of Julius Africanus. I. [1] On the Mythological Chronology of the Egyptians and Chaldeans [Babylonians].

The Egyptians, indeed, with their boastful notions of their own antiquity, have put forth a sort of account of it by the hand of their astrologers in cycles and myriads of years; which some of those who have had the repute of studying such subjects profoundly have in a summary way called lunar years; and inclining no less than others to the mythical, they think they fall in with the eight or nine thousands of years which the Egyptian priests in Plato falsely reckon up to Solon. [2] [page 130-131]

(And after some other matter

For why should I speak of the three myriad years of the Phœnicians, or of the follies of the Chaldeans, their forty-eight myriads? For the Jews, deriving their origin from them as descendants of Abraham, having been taught a modest mind, and one such as becomes men, together with the truth by the spirit of Moses, have handed down to us, by their extant Hebrew histories, the number of 5500 years as the period up to the advent of the Word of salvation, that was announced to the world in the time of the sway of the Cæsars. ..." - The Ante-Nicene Fathers. Translations of The Writings of the Fathers down to A.D. 325.; The Rev. Alexander Roberts, D.D., and James Donaldson, LL.D., Editors.; American Reprint of the Edinburgh Edition.; Revised and Chronologically arranged, with brief prefaces and occasional notes, by A. Cleveland Coxe, D.D.; Volume VI., Gregory Thaumaturgus, Dionysius the Great, Julius Africanus, Anatolius and Minor Writers, Methodius, Arnobius.; Authorized Edition.; NewYork: Charles Scribner's Sons. 1903. FRAGMENT 1; In Georgius Syncellus, Chron., p. 17, ed. Paris, 14 Venet.; pages 130-131 - The Ante-Nicene fathers​

Lactantius (c. 250 – c. 325) -

"... [page 460] Plato and many others of the philosophers, since they were ignorant of the origin of all things, and of that primal period at which the world was made, said that many thousands of ages had passed since this beautiful arrangement of the world was completed; and in this they perhaps followed the Chaldeans [Babylonians], who, as Cicero has related in his first book respecting divination, [1] foolishly say [2] that they possess comprised in their memorials 470,000 years; in which matter, because they thought that they could not be convicted, they believed that they were at liberty [3] to speak falsely. But we, whom the holy Scriptures instruct to the knowledge of the truth, know the beginning and the end of the world, respecting which we will now speak in the end of our work, since we have explained respecting the beginning in the second book. Therefore let the philosophers, who enumerate thousands of ages from the beginning of the world, know that the six thousandth year is not yet completed, [page 460-461] and that when this number is completed the consumation must take place, and the condition of human affairs be remodelled for the better, the proof of which must first be related, that the matter itself may be plain. God completed the world and this admirable work of nature in the space of six days (as is contained in the secrets of holy Scripture), and consecrated the seventh day, on which He had rested for His works. But this is the Sabbath-day, which in the language of the Hebrews received its name from the number, [1] whence the seventh is the legitimate and complete number. For there are seven days, by the revolutions of which in order the circles of years are made up; and there are seven stars which do not set, and seven luminaries which are called planets, [2] whose differing and unequal movements are believed to cause the varieties of circumstances and times.

Therefore, since all the works of God were completed in six days, the world must continue in its present state through six ages, that is, six thousand years. For the great day of God is limited by a circle of a thousand years, as the prophet shows, who says, [3] "In Thy sight, O Lord, a thousand years are as one day." And as God laboured during those six days in creating such great works, so His religion and truth must labour during these six thousand years, while wickedness prevails and bears rule. And again, since God, having finished His works, rested the seventh day and blessed it, at the end of the six thousandth year all wickedness must be abolished from the earth, and righteousness reign for a thousand years; and there must be tranquility and rest from the labours which the world now has long endured. We have often said that lesser things and things of small importance are figures and previous shadowings forth of great things; as this day of ours, which is bounded by the rising and the setting of the sun, is a representation [4] of that great day to which the circuit of a thousand years affixes it limits. [5] [page 461] ..." - Ante-Nicene Christian Library: Translations of the Writings of the Fathers down to A.D. 325.; Edited by the Rev. Alexander Roberts, D.D., and James Donaldson, LL.D., Volume XXI., The Works of Lactantius., Volume I. Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 38, George Street., MDCCCLXXI. (1871); Printed by Murray and Gibb, For T. & T. Clark, Edinburgh.; London: Hamilton, Adams and Co.; Dublin: John Robertson and Co.; New York: C. Scribner and Co. - Lactantius; Chap. XIV. - Of the first and last times of the world.; pages 460-461. - Ante-Nicene Christian Library​

You can see the full listing here - 7000 Year Plan Of The Everlasting Gospel – Bible & Historical Quotations (PDF)

 

[coconut theology]

... Four main things: 1.its anti-science agenda (especially opposed to the ToE ...

YEC, and those that taught a global flood which destroys any time for even a little 'toe':

You are saying that you believe in the 'toe' (theory of evolution)? Why? Even "catholic" and/or Roman Catholic scholars reject that false ideology as of pagan origin.

For instance, the vast majority of so-called "ECF" were YEC, and believed in the global flood (not an ethnocentric (local) one):

You can see the full listing here - 7000 Year Plan Of The Everlasting Gospel – Bible & Historical Quotations (PDF)

A Brief listing of some so-called ECF, scholars, etc and even Jesuits!, citations in full are in the PDF, and this just the so called 'catholic' sources, and does not include the non-conformist, scientists (Isaac Newton, etc), varied astronomers, chronologists (Ussher, etc) protestants, mathematicians, etc:

Epistle of Barnabus (between 70–132 BC) (Apocryphal; Pseudopigraphical, from the forgery, known as the 'Codex Sinaiticus') - page 146 - The Ante-Nicene Fathers: The apostolic fathers. Justin Martyr. Irenaeus

Bardesanes (a (gnostic) Syrian Astronomer) (born 11 July 154) - Columnn 614 (lefthand side) - Patrologia syriaca, complectens opera omnia SS. Patrum, doctorum scriptorumque catholicorum,...

Sextus Julius Africanus (c. 160 – c. 240) - pages 130-131 - The Ante-Nicene fathers pages 136-138, selected portions - https://books.google.co.zw/books?id=F-5YAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Hippolytus of Rome (170 – 235 AD) - page 179 - The Ante-Nicene Fathers

Origen (of Alexandria; a gnostic) (c. 184 – c. 253) - page 404 - The Ante-Nicene Fathers

Irenaeus (died about 202) - page 557 - The Ante-Nicene Fathers: The apostolic fathers. Justin Martyr. Irenaeus
page 558 - The Ante-Nicene Fathers: The apostolic fathers. Justin Martyr. Irenaeus

Cyprian of Carthage (c. 200 – September 14, 258 AD) - page 52,69. - The Writings of Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage

Commodianus (AD 250) - pages 451,474 (respectively) - Ante-Nicene Christian Library

Lactantius (c. 250 – c. 325) - pages 460-461. - Ante-Nicene Christian Library

Victorinus of Pettau (died 303 or 304) - pages 342,343 (respectively) - The Ante-Nicene Fathers

Julius Firmicus Maternus (lived in 306 to 337 AD) - page 109 [PDF 133] - https://scholarship.rice.edu/bitstream/handle/1911/89943/RICE0978.pdf page 66 - De errore profanarum religionum;

Methodius (died c. 311) - pages 105.2-106.4 - The complete testimony of the fathers of the first three centuries concerning the Sabbath and first day : Andrews, John Nevins, 1829-1883 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
page 81 - The Writings of Methodius, Alexander of Lycopolis, Peter of Alexandria and Several Fragments
page 93 - The Writings of Methodius, Alexander of Lycopolis, Peter of Alexandria and Several Fragments page 93 - The Writings of Methodius, Alexander of Lycopolis, Peter of Alexandria and Several Fragments page 100 - The Writings of Methodius, Alexander of Lycopolis, Peter of Alexandria and Several Fragments page 182 - The Writings of Methodius, Alexander of Lycopolis, Peter of Alexandria and Several Fragments

Hilary of Poitiers (c. 310 – c. 367) - page 186 - Commentary on Matthew

Jerome (Hieronymus) (27 March 347 – 30 September 420) - page 153 - The Use and Abuse of Eschatology in the Middle Ages
page 202. - The end of the world; or, The second coming of our lord and saviour Jesus Christ column 1172 [PDF 648] - https://archive.org/stream/patrologiaecurs165unkngoog#page/n648/mode/1up/​

 

[coconut theology]

... Four main things: 1.its anti-science agenda (especially opposed to the ToE ...

YEC, and those that taught a global flood which destroys any time for even a little 'toe':

You can see the full listing here - 7000 Year Plan Of The Everlasting Gospel – Bible & Historical Quotations (PDF)

A Brief listing of some so-called ECF, scholars, etc and even Jesuits!, citations in full are in the PDF, and this just the so called 'catholic' sources, and does not include the non-conformist, scientists (Isaac Newton, etc), varied astronomers, chronologists (Ussher, etc) protestants, mathematicians, etc:

Sulpitius Severus (c. 363 – c. 425) - page 71 - Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers

Apostolic Constitutions (375 to 380 AD) - pages 317-318 (PDF 337-338) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....ers_Of_The_Third_And_Fourth_Centuries,_EN.pdf

Gaudentius of Brescia (Brixiensis) (Bishop from 387 until 410) - pages 202-203. - The end of the world; or, The second coming of our lord and saviour Jesus Christ
pages 96,97, paragraphs 14-16, lines 137-140, 148-154 - Corpus scriptorum ecclesiasticorum Latinorum

Tyconius (also spelled Tyconius or Tychonius) (active 370–390 AD) - page 56; lines 13-14 - The book of rules of Tyconius newly edited from the mss. : with an introduction and an examination into the text of the Biblical quotations
page 61; lines 30-33 - The book of rules of Tyconius newly edited from the mss. : with an introduction and an examination into the text of the Biblical quotations

Augustine of Hippo (13 November 354 – 28 August 430) - page 426 - A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church [PDF, 449.450] - De Civitate Dei De Civitate Dei page 232 - A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church [PDF 247] - De Civitate Dei page 233 - A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church
[PDF 248] - https://archive.org/stream/OEXV6RES/OEXV6#page/n248/mode/1up/

The 'venerable' Bede (672/3 – 26 May 735) - pages 39-41 - Bede, The Reckoning of Time
pages 166-168 [PDF 190-192] - The Miscellaneous Works of Venerable Bede: Scientific tracts and Appendix
The Miscellaneous Works of Venerable Bede: Scientific tracts and Appendix
The Miscellaneous Works of Venerable Bede: Scientific tracts and Appendix
pages 300-301 [PDF 324-325] - The Miscellaneous Works of Venerable Bede: Scientific tracts and Appendix
The Miscellaneous Works of Venerable Bede: Scientific tracts and Appendix
[left hand margin, “3952”]- Venerabilis Bedae presbyteri De temporibus, siue, De sex aetatibus huius seculi liber incipit. P. Victoris De regionibus urbis Rome libellus aureus
See also (introduction) - Bede

Thomas Aquinas (1225 – 7 March 1274) - Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Question 74, Article 3, Reply to Objection 6 and 7 - SUMMA THEOLOGICA: All the seven days in common (Prima Pars, Q. 74)
"Question 122. The precepts of justice"; "Article 4. Whether the third precept of the decalogue, concerning the hallowing of the Sabbath, is fittingly expressed?"'- SUMMA THEOLOGICA: The precepts of justice (Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 122)
- SUMMA THEOLOGICA: The fire of the final conflagration (Supplementum, Q. 74)

Cornelius a Lapide (1567-1637) (Jesuit) - page 4 - The great commentary of Cornelius à Lapide
page 102 - The great commentary of Cornelius à Lapide
page 265 - The great commentary of Cornelius à Lapide
page 801 (right hand column) - Commentarii in Sacram Scripturam
page 19 - Commentaria in Pentateuchum Mosis. Auctore r.p. Cornelio Cornelii a Lapide ..
page 23 [PDF 34] - Commentaria in Pentateuchum Mosis. Auctore r.p. Cornelio Cornelii a Lapide ..

Henri Spondanus (aka Henri de Sponde; Henricus Spondanus) (January 6, 1568; died at Toulouse, May 18, 1643) (Catholic jurist, historian) - pages 480,481 - ANNALES SACRI ET ECCLESIASTICI A Mundi Creatione ad Christum, & a Christo ad nostra vsque tempora deducti: JN QVINQVE TOMOS DISTIRBVTI
page 508 - ANNALES SACRI ET ECCLESIASTICI A Mundi Creatione ad Christum, & a Christo ad nostra vsque tempora deducti: JN QVINQVE TOMOS DISTIRBVTI
pages 526,527 - ANNALES SACRI ET ECCLESIASTICI A Mundi Creatione ad Christum, & a Christo ad nostra vsque tempora deducti: JN QVINQVE TOMOS DISTIRBVTI

Denis Petau (aka Dionysius Petavius; Jesuit historian & theologian) (August 21, 1583 – December 11, 1652) - page 10 - Dionysii Petavii Aurelianensis, e Societate Jesu, Opus de doctrina temporum

Giovanni Battista Riccioli (17 April 1598 – 25 June 1671) (Jesuit & Italian Astronomer) - page 292 [PDF 316] - Chronologiæ reformatæ et ad certas conclusiones redactæ tomus primus quartus ... auctore r.p. Io. Baptista Ricciolio Ferrariensi Societatis Iesu .. Chronologiæ reformatæ et ad certas conclusiones redactæ tomus primus continens doctrinam temporum auctore r.p. Io. Baptista Ricciolio ..
page 292 [PDF 317] - Chronologiæ reformatæ et ad certas conclusiones redactæ tomus primus quartus ... auctore r.p. Io. Baptista Ricciolio Ferrariensi Societatis Iesu .. Chronologiæ reformatæ et ad certas conclusiones redactæ tomus primus continens doctrinam temporum auctore r.p. Io. Baptista Ricciolio ..
page 293 [PDF 318] - Chronologiæ reformatæ et ad certas conclusiones redactæ tomus primus quartus ... auctore r.p. Io. Baptista Ricciolio Ferrariensi Societatis Iesu .. Chronologiæ reformatæ et ad certas conclusiones redactæ tomus primus continens doctrinam temporum auctore r.p. Io. Baptista Ricciolio ..

Richard Challoner (Roman Catholic Bishop; reviser of the Douay Rheims (Jesuit) Bible and noted commentator) (1691–1781) - page 52 - Think Well On't, Or, Reflections on the Great Thruths of the Christian Religion​

 

[metis]

I am directly saying that it does - present tense and offered to cite them for you.

You've made it abundantly clear where you're coming from and why, and I have no want of head-butting with you as our "ground rules" are way too different.

 

[metis]

You are saying that you believe in the 'toe' (theory of evolution)? Why? Even "catholic" and/or Roman Catholic scholars reject that false ideology as of pagan origin.

False, and you might actually check the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" as the Church allows for both points of view.

And the ToE came from scientific study, not from "pagan" origin, even though Buddhism has long taught that all things appear to change over time and that everything appears to be ultimately interconnected.

As for the other cut & paste stuff, I have no interest. Nor do I have any interest in one who lies like you did about Catholics worshiping the sun and also the above, and then refuses to apologize or even admit that maybe you made an error.

Anyhow, because of your repeated dishonesty and bigotry, I've become both appalled and at the same time bored with your disingenuous and hate-filled antics, so this will be my last post back to you.

 

[3rdAngel]

yes.

yes.

So?

The teaching that "Sunday" is "THE LORDS DAY" many "christians" think is biblical and follow is not biblical and was foretold in the scriptures as something that was to come *DANIEL 7:25

 

[Ebionite]

The teaching that many "christians" think is biblical and follow is not biblical and was foretold in the scriptures as something that was to come *DANIEL 7:25

Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days YHWH made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exodus 31:16-17

 

[3rdAngel]

Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days YHWH made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exodus 31:16-17

Absolutely Theo good post being a perpetual covenant means it is everlasting.

 

[coconut theology]

False, and you might actually check the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" as the Church allows for both points of view.

You misrepresented the position I stated, notice again please:

"... You are saying that you believe in the 'toe' (theory of evolution)? Why? Even "catholic" and/or Roman Catholic scholars reject that false ideology as of pagan origin. ..."​

Did I say "all"? No. What I stated is, that "Even "catholic" and/or Roman Catholic scholars reject that false ideology (evolutionism) as of pagan origin." and then proceeded to cite the clear references to YEC, and those that knew of the Babylonian and Egyptian and later Greecian philosophies that are counter to the scriptural, and even historic position of Christianity. Find me even 10 such persons in the so called 'ECF' that teach what you teach in regards the 'toe'. Find me even one such citation in scripture. Find me one saying of Jesus Christ himself in the NT. You will not find any such things.

And the ToE came from scientific study

Not at all. Even in the Greecian philosophies (and they knew it was but conjecture of the mind), like Anaximander, it wasn't about true science (1 Timothy 6:20), but rather philosophy - Anaximander | Greek philosopher

 

[coconut theology]

Another thing I have found, is that people attempt to define "the Lord's day" by the so-called "ECF" (easily confused fellows; of the 1-4th century AD, etc), instead of going back to the real "fathers"; the Patriarchs and Prophets of Scripture themselves, like John, James and Peter and Paul, and even further back unto Abraham, Moses, David, and those like them, and have those "fathers" tell us, as mouthpieces for God. I find them in the inspired and preserved words of God, and I do not find people like spurious Ignatius, imaginary Didache, self-refuting pseudo Barnabas, etc.

They would place those persons in afteryears above the definition that Jesus gave.

Spurious and Imaginary?

Yes, Spurious, Imaginary, etc:

The writings so often cited to try to define "the Lord's day" outside of scripture, and long after John passed from the scene, are often forged (like Ignatius) and also abused, of which any may see that here - Sunday Fraud: Church "Fathers" on the Lord's Day

The Bible says:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.​

God even warned all that they would "think" to "change times and laws" (of which the 4th Commandment, the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD is both time and law) of the Most High God:

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.​

Notice some of the fraud:

Here is the long form of the citation, since there are several conflicting:

"... For if we still live according to the Jewish law, and the circumcision of the flesh, we deny that we have received grace.—ch. 8.

But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week].—ch. 9.

It is absurd to speak of Jesus Christ with the tongue, and to cherish in the mind a Judaism which has now come to an end. For where there is Christianity there cannot be Judaism.—ch. 10.

These things [I address to you], my beloved, not that I know any of you to be in such a state; but, as less than any of you, I desire to guard you beforehand, that ye fall not upon the hooks of vain doctrine, but that you may rather attain to a full assurance in Christ . . . .—ch. 11. ..." - ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library​

Let's examine the longer form first, with which the reader will immediately notice a severe problem. The very quote that is supposed to prove that "Christians . . . never [worshipped] on the Sabbath" actually commands "every" Christian to "keep the Sabbath"! Moreover, since the quote also forbids Judaizing, it follows that the writer of the long form of this epistle believed that Sabbath keeping transcended Judiaism. In other words, a Christian could tell people that they needed to keep the Sabbath without being guilty of Judaizing!

The words "and after the observance of the Sabbath" were intentionally deleted from the quote. Another example of fraud?

Now to the other shorter form. The epistles of Ignatius are spurious or forgeries - Link or Link.

Amazing, having to rely upon spurious writings, pseudo-works, which are forgeries.

The original Greek (Didache 14:1) does not have the word for "day" anywhere in that sentence and secondly, neither is the word "Sunday" present.

"... 1. Κατὰ κυριακὴν δὲ κυρίου συναχθέντες κλάσατε ἄρτον καὶ εὐχαριστήσατε, προεξομολογησάμενοι τὰ παραπτώματα ὑμῶν, ὅπως καθαρὰ ἡ θυσία ὑμῶν ᾐ. ..." - The Twelve Apostles-Didache​

Where is the word for "day" (hemera)? Where is the word for "Sunday"? Where is the word "first"?

It literally reads, "κυριακὴν δὲ κυρίου" (Lord of Lord).

The translation that most propose to prove Sunday sacredness or that it is the 'Lord's day' is imaginary.

So far, we have spurious and imaginary.

Then they attempt Pseudo Barnabas:

According to pseudo-Barnabas (ought we to really trust a letter that claims to be from another, didn't Paul warn about such letters being circulated? 2 Thessalonians 2:2), we are too wicked (Christians are too wicked???) at present to keep the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD, and will not be able to keep it until we are sanctified when Christ returns (so we are going to keep Sabbath again in the New Heavens and New Earth, that doesn't sound like people use this quote for). Because we are too wicked to keep the Sabbath now, we must keep Sunday instead. What good does this reasoning do for the cause of Sunday sacredness or holiness if we are too wicked?

Pseudo Barnabas also teaches the earth ends in the 7,000th year from creation. Do they accept this also?, No, as they believe in the false philosophy of evolutionism and long-agism.

Any may also see the forgery of Justin Martyr here - Doctrine - Sabbath - William H Shea - The Justin Martyr Forgery About Sabbath And Sunday The First Day Of The Week : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[coconut theology]

So, after sharing all of the information in this thread, where is even one verse in scripture, that shows "the Lord's day" is "Sunday" (aka, 'first [day] of the week")? We await any person to produce that text.

We have provided many texts which show, that John, as a Jew following the Messiah (Jesus Christ), knowing the "oracles of God" (Romans 3:2; Hebrews 5:12; 1 Peter 4:11), and gifted with the "spirit of prophecy", being the "testimony of Jesus", understood that the "Lord's" day in scripture, has been from the beginning, and all throughout even until his own time, the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD. (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), and will forever be on into eternity (Isaiah 66:22-23).

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.​

This is why in Revelation 14:6-12, John cites Exodus 20:11, in reference to the Church which "keep(s) the commandments of God", and are thus who keep, "... the LORD('s) ... day ...", which is the sabbath of the LORD, the 7th day in which God rested from the foundation of the world.

 

[3rdAngel]

So, after sharing all of the information in this thread, where is even one verse in scripture, that shows "the Lord's day" is "Sunday" (aka, 'first [day] of the week")? We await any person to produce that text.

We have provided many texts which show, that John, as a Jew following the Messiah (Jesus Christ), knowing the "oracles of God" (Romans 3:2; Hebrews 5:12; 1 Peter 4:11), and gifted with the "spirit of prophecy", being the "testimony of Jesus", understood that the "Lord's" day in scripture, has been from the beginning, and all throughout even until his own time, the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD. (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), and will forever be on into eternity (Isaiah 66:22-23).

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.​

This is why in Revelation 14:6-12, John cites Exodus 20:11, in reference to the Church which "keep(s) the commandments of God", and are thus who keep, "... the LORD('s) ... day ...", which is the sabbath of the LORD, the 7th day in which God rested from the foundation of the world.

Yep 25 pages now and everyone wants to talk about everything but the OP. Thanks for staying on track.

 

[coconut theology]

Christian sues US Postal Service over Sunday work shifts

"... The complaint also requests for the agency to create policies that provide equal employment opportunities for religious observance of Sabbath on Sundays. ..."​

They are pushing hard. They will get what they want, but it will cost them everything.

 

[coconut theology]

KJVO Baptist, BroParrish cannot address King James Texts on the subject of the Lord's day, and bans user after altering post and deleting the content and leaving no trace that it was done:

King James Bible Forums | KJV Only Forums | KJV Baptist Forum | Independent Fundamental Baptist Forum | 1611 KJV Forum • View topic - Kanye West's "Sunday Service" - & the real Lord's day

KJVO Baptist, ProParrish cannot address King James Texts on the subject of diet, and erases the whole post:

King James Bible Forums | KJV Only Forums | KJV Baptist Forum | Independent Fundamental Baptist Forum | 1611 KJV Forum • View topic - Acts 11 did Peter still think certain foods were unclean?

That is exactly what sister White said would happen:

"... As the controversy extends into new fields and the minds of the people are called to God's downtrodden law, Satan is astir. The power attending the message will only madden those who oppose it. The clergy will put forth almost superhuman efforts to shut away the light lest it should shine upon their flocks. By every means at their command they will endeavor to suppress the discussion of these vital questions. The church appeals to the strong arm of civil power, and, in this work, papists and Protestants unite. As the movement for Sunday enforcement becomes more bold and decided, the law will be invoked against commandment keepers. They will be threatened with fines and imprisonment, and some will be offered positions of influence, and other rewards and advantages, as inducements to renounce their faith. But their steadfast answer is: "Show us from the word of God our error"--the same plea that was made by Luther under similar circumstances. Those who are arraigned before the courts make a strong vindication of the truth, and some who hear them are led to take their stand to keep all the commandments of God. Thus light will be brought before thousands who otherwise would know nothing of these truths. {GC 607.1} ..." - The Great Controversy (1911), page 607.1
​

It is truly sad to see that those who claim to follow the Bible, and the Bible only, cannot from that same Bible they hold, defend their position, without using threats of violence, without using force, without abusing their authority, and erasing and burying the argument of another. What a sad circumstance that is, for it is the same spirit that burned John Huss' materials and then him, and is the same spirit that tried to bury Jesus' words and then kill him. Therefore, I invite that same individual, BroParrish, to come here, and defend their argument on even playing field, where they cannot erase the argument they cannot defend against. If they do not - it really shows what spirit they are of, and what their real position is, not Bible, but "tradition", and are as verily Papist as the Romanist, but are closet baptist Papists.