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Featured The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 3rdAngel, Nov 15, 2019.

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  1. coconut theology

    coconut theology coconuts for Jesus

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    Yes., in part. It wasn't just Luther. It was the entire Reformation (and others that existed before Luther, such as Huss, Wycliffe, etc) that identified Roman Catholicism and the position of Pope therein as Anti-Christ.

    The Jesuits were created (by the devil) to counter the truth. A counter-reformation, to put a stop to the Reformation, at all costs.
     
  2. coconut theology

    coconut theology coconuts for Jesus

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    Many things, including Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Yet, this, has nothing to do with Daniel 8-11, as shown.
     
  3. coconut theology

    coconut theology coconuts for Jesus

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    Only 2 of the 4 that exists. They (Roman Catholicisms hierarchy) pick and choose what they think will serve them. It is always a double-edged sword, and always pointed at their own throat. They will be taken by it every time, even as Goliath was, and as King Saul fell upon his own weapon.
     
  4. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    coconut theology


    Daniel 8 - Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_8

    Daniel 8 is an interpretation of the author's own time, 167-164 BCE, with a claim that God will bring to an end the oppression of the Jewish people. It begins with the Greek conquest of the Persian empire, touches on the rise of the four Greek successor-kingdoms, and then focuses on the career of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who took the throne of Seleucid Syriain 175 BCE. While the details which led to Antiochus' conflict with the Jews are obscure, it appears that there was a revolt in Jerusalem, he sent troops to su…
     
  5. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Daniel saw that the daily sacrifices would be opposed by the “little horn,” and he was told that this opposition would last for “2,300 days,” which would be 2,300 evenings and mornings (center margin) before it would be cleansed (Daniel 8:12-14). The evenings and mornings represent the evening and morning sacrifices, a total of 1,150 days before the temple would be cleansed.

    1.150 days are the 3 years before the Temple was cleaned and rededicated.

    Daniel 8 Commentary - Commentary Critical and Explanatory ...
    https://www.biblestudytools.com/.../daniel-8.html
    In Daniel 8:9 it is not an independent fifth horn, after the four previous ones, but it arises out of one of the four existing horns. This horn is explained ( Daniel 8:23) to be "a king of fierce countenance," &c. Antiochus Epiphanes is meant. Greece with all its refinement produces the first, that is, the Old Testament Antichrist.
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Yes..
     
  7. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Protestants don't know anything about the Maccabeans unless they are passionate Bible students.
     
  8. coconut theology

    coconut theology coconuts for Jesus

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    Wikipedia???

    1150???

    Already refuted it (and you simply ignored it):

    The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

    The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

    The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

    The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

    The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?
     
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  9. coconut theology

    coconut theology coconuts for Jesus

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    No.

    It is impossible to be that, for the reasons above, and more yet to be identified. For instance, the context of Daniel 8 deals with the "daily" and the "yearly" services of the Sanctuary, and thus the "cleansed" portion deals with the Day of Atonement, which takes place once per year, and so 2,300 days of atonement, are 2,300 years unto the anti-typical Day of Atonement. See:

    The parallels in Daniel 8 to Leviticus 16 are stunning:

    Daniel 8 KJB is steeped in Sanctuary language, from the regular day to day service and the year end time service, the Day of Atonement, for it speaks about a “ram”, a “he-goat”, “four horns”, “the daily”, the “sanctuary”, the “prince of Princes” [High priest, Jesus Christ], the “host”, “saint”, “Gabriel” [the covering cherub who replaced Lucifer, who stands “in the presence of God” [Luke 1:19 KJB]], “transgression” [sin] and “cleansed”, and “truth” [Law, etc], and the 2,300 “evening and morning/s”, “many days”, and “time of the end”, “last end” and etc.

    In the sanctuary services [Psalms 77:13 KJB], the cleanse part has to do with the transition from the daily to the yearly [day of atonement] in type and antitype, even as Daniel 8 refers to in imagery [Ram [offering], He-goat [sin offering], Four Horns [as in the golden altar] for making atonement, in both place and people], see Leviticus 16:

    Leviticus 16:2,13,14,15 - mercy seat [and cherubim thereon]
    Leviticus 16:2-9,11-21,23-34 - High Priest, ministration
    Leviticus 16:3,5 - ram
    Leviticus 16:4,24,26,27,28,30 - washing/burning, thus cleansing
    Leviticus 16:5,7,8,15,24 - [Lord's] goat, sin offering
    Leviticus 16:5,9,10,15,16,21,27,30,34 - transgression
    Leviticus 16:5,6,7,15,16,17,19,20,21,22,23,24,26,27,28,29,30,31,33,34 - people of God, congregation, camp
    Leviticus 16:6,17,20 - atonement [so also Leviticus 23]
    Leviticus 16:12,13,18 - with four horns outside on altar of sacrifice and four horns inside golden altar of incense [Daniel 8:13-14,26, etc, Revelation 9:13-15, Oct. 22, 1844]
    Leviticus 16:16,19,30,33 - uncleanness of persons and places, needing to be cleansed [vs 19, “cleanse”]
    Leviticus 16:34 - end of the daily [evening and morning], now the once in the year​

    Thus what Daniel 8:14 KJB, reveals is the transition of Christ Jesus [Daniel 8:13 KJB, “certain saint”, the wonderful numberer, who numbers the hairs, stars, sands, kingdoms, times and boundaries, etc] in His Great High Priestly role, from one phase [antitypical daily] to another [antitypical yearly] in the Great Heavenly Sanctuary above, per Daniel, Matthew, Acts, Hebrews, Revelation, etc, and also deals with the peoples of that time [1844] afterward, in their own related cleansing. Thus sanctuary, and host.

    Daniel 8:1,4,6,7,20 - Ram
    Daniel 8:3,5,6,7,8,9,20,21 - horns [8, 4 outside [altar sacrifice], 4 inside [altar incense' -- 2 on ram, 1 on he-got, 4 on he-goat, 1 from winds]
    Daniel 8:5,8,21 - He Goat
    Daniel 8:10,13,24,25 - the holy people of God
    Daniel 8:11,13,14,25 - certain saint [High Priest Jesus]
    Daniel 8:12,13,14,24,25 - transgression
    Daniel 8:13,15-17 - one saint speaking, and another saint said - covering cherubims/angels [Gabriel and 'Herald']
    Daniel 8:11,12,13-14,26 - daily ongoing [evening and morning] and finally ended, yearly commenced
    Daniel 8:14 - cleansed
    more in Daniel 9-12 KJB where the atonement is found, which is the re-explanation and expansion of Daniel 8.​

    There are two sets of 'four horns' in Daniel 8 KJB.

    The first set of 'four':

    [1] “two horns” of the Ram
    [2] the “great” or “notable” “horn” of the He-goat
    [3] the “little horn” out of the four winds​

    The second set of 'four':

    [1] the “four notable ones” that came out of the He-goat after the “great” or “notable” “horn”.​

    There are 8 horns in the sanctuary service.

    [1] 4 horns on the altar of sacrifice [Exodus 27:2, 38:2]
    [2] 4 horns on the altar of incense [Exodus 30:2, 37:25,26]​

    Daniel 8:14 KJB - And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

    Which, in Daniel 9, we get the specific timeframe to start in the Medo-Persian Empire.
     
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  10. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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  11. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Leviticus was written during and after the Babylonian exile. Daniel wasn't written for hundreds of years later.
     
  12. coconut theology

    coconut theology coconuts for Jesus

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    Uh-huh, and what does that have to do with the text at hand?

    Mat_24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

    Mar_13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:​

    Future from that moment. "shall see", and in the context of Christians "ye".
     
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  13. coconut theology

    coconut theology coconuts for Jesus

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    Uh-huh. Daniel was shown the Sanctuary pattern, Psalms 77:13, as so many before him were shown (Exodus 25:8,40, etc (many more examples may be provided)).
     
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  14. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Of course.. Matthew (and Jesus) knew the story of the Maccabean Revolt and the persecutions under Antiochus.. They knew about the Abomination of Desolation when Antiochus defiled the Temple.
     
  15. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    So much of Psalms, Daniel and Proverbs was lifted from the Ugaritic texts found at Ras Shamra.
     
  16. coconut theology

    coconut theology coconuts for Jesus

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    Nuh-uh. Future tense, and Luke records, as did Matthew and Mark, in a slightly differing manner:

    Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
    Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
    Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.​
     
  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    You have kind of missed the point of the scrpture provided by our good brother CT :).

    Let me help then I have to leave.

    Read them again..

    Mat_24:15 When ye (disciples future tense) therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    Mar_13:14 But when ye (disciples future tense) shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains.

    JESUS is stating the events of the abomination of desolation are future tense not past.

    Not only does Antiochus not fit the scripture signs of Daniel 8, Antiochus died way before JESUS time and JESUS is talking to the disciples saying the Abomination of desolation was yet future.

    Can you see your error here?

    Hope this helps and good night :)
     
  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for trying to help him CT. I have to leave now. Thanks for sharing...

    God bless :)
     
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  19. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Of course its future tense.. They are saying the Abomination of Desolation shall come again in the future. Thank God the new "Christians" fled to Pella and escaped the tribulation.
     
  20. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Of course Antiochus died before Jesus was born.. He died in 164 BC.. but Jesus knew the story of Antiochus, the Maccabean Revolt and the defilement of the Temple. He warn his followers when you see it again flee to the Mountains... They did. They fled to Pella and escaped the Tribulation.
     
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