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Featured The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 3rdAngel, Nov 15, 2019.

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  1. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    It was truly not men who accused (they being merely a channel, a conduit, a medium), but satan accused through them, in an attempt to gainsay God's word, and to bring stain upon Christ Jesus through those whom He associated Himself with.

    Notice, that Christ Jesus did not cite Deuteronomy 23:25 in defense, which He could have done, but instead He went on the attack and turned their (satan's) own argument on its head, using the definition they (satan) provided, "Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?"

    The disciples actions were absolutely "lawful" according to sacred cripture. Why then did the Pharisees say it was "not lawful"? It was because they were using a standard that was not found in scripture, but rather was in their man-made oral traditions. They had made their own regulations above the law of God itself. They had exalted the opinion of traditions of men above the word of God, even as satan himself alway attempts to do (Genesis 3; Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28; Revelation 12).

    Notice what Jesus now says to the accusers in return. He goes not to Deuteronomy 23:25, as in defense of action, but instead goes on the offensive and straight to the heart of the matter of the sabbath itself, with citing from the scriptures (thus "It is written", instead of the Pharisees, 'heard it said'), two primary examples, so that there would be no room for excuses in case the Pharisees had attempted to justify Exodus 20:8-11 over and above Deuteronomy 23:25, rather than in harmony with it: [1] King (David, later of the throne) and [2] Priest (of the service of God in the Temple) (which the disciples of Christ Jesus are, for we are all kings and priests (Exodus 19:6; 1 Peter 2:5,9; Revelation 1:6, 5:10, 20:6). Thus, Jesus said:

    Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

    Mar 2:25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

    Luk 6:3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;​

    Jesus first cites the example of "King" David (1 Samuel 16:13; Psalms 89:20):

    1Sa 21:1 Then came David to Nob to Ahimelech the priest: and Ahimelech was afraid at the meeting of David, and said unto him, Why art thou alone, and no man with thee?
    1Sa 21:2 And David said unto Ahimelech the priest, The king hath commanded me a business, and hath said unto me, Let no man know any thing of the business whereabout I send thee, and what I have commanded thee: and I have appointed my servants to such and such a place.
    1Sa 21:3 Now therefore what is under thine hand? give me five loaves of bread in mine hand, or what there is present.​

    Jesus, referring to this event, then continues and says:

    Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

    Mar 2:26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

    Luk 6:4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?​

    Which refers to the remaning events:

    1Sa 21:4 And the priest answered David, and said, There is no common bread under mine hand, but there is hallowed bread; if the young men have kept themselves at least from women.
    1Sa 21:5 And David answered the priest, and said unto him, Of a truth women have been kept from us about these three days, since I came out, and the vessels of the young men are holy, and the bread is in a manner common, yea, though it were sanctified this day in the vessel.
    1Sa 21:6 So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away.

    1Sa 22:10 And he enquired of the LORD for him, and gave him victuals, and gave him the sword of Goliath the Philistine.​

    There was a law in the scriptures, that Jesus was referring to, that related to events that transpired on the sabbath day, in which the bread of the presence, the bread from the table of shewbread was replaced by fresh bread, every 7th day, and the old bread was to be eaten by Aaron (High priest) and his sons (descendants) the priests:

    Lev 24:5 And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth deals shall be in one cake.
    Lev 24:6 And thou shalt set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before the LORD.
    Lev 24:7 And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
    Lev 24:8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
    Lev 24:9 And it shall be Aaron's and his sons'; and they shall eat it in the holy place: for it is most holy unto him of the offerings of the LORD made by fire by a perpetual statute.

    1Ch 9:32 And other of their brethren, of the sons of the Kohathites, were over the shewbread, to prepare it every sabbath.​

    The "house of God" is the Sanctuary or Temple of God (Judges 18:31, 20:18,26,31, 21:2; 1 Chronicles 6:48, 24:5, etc.), which in symbolic language, or spiritual understanding, is also the church of God, the body of Christ Jesus (John 2:19; 1 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:21; 1 Peter 2:5, 4:17; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17, 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 3:12, 11:1,2, 21:22).

    Was "King" David a priest of the line of Levi (Aaron)? No, for David was of Judah (Ruth 4:18-22; 1 Chronicles 2:4-8; 1 Chronicles 4:1; Matthew 1:3; Luke 3:31-33). However, Ahimelech the priest was of the Levite line, and though the bread of the presence was now to be replaced, and old, and to be eaten by Ahimelech and the priests (1 Samuel 22:11-21) present at the time as per the already mentioned scripture of Leviticus 24, Ahimelech showed mercy to "King" David and his men that were with him that were an hungered.

    If Ahimelech could show mercy unto "King" David (watched & chased by his enemy that sought to kill him) and his men upon the sabbath day by allowing them to eat the old bread of the presence, even when it was "not lawful", how much more should the Pharisees have shown mercy upon the sabbath day to the real and greater "King" "David" (Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23,24, 37:24,25; Hosea 3:5; then also being sought to be killed by His enemy, the devil) and His men (the disciples) when it was lawful (according to Deuteronomy 23:25), instead of seeking means to destroy Him and them as Saul and Doeg did to the priests of old?

    Jesus elsewhere had said:

    Mat_9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    Mat_12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.​

    Ahimelech was merciful, while Saul and Doeg were murderers, constantly watching (1 Samuel 19:11) for David to fail, or slip up, so that he might fall into their grasp to destroy him.

    The Pharisees said that what the disciples of Jesus were doing was "not lawful" (Matthew 12:2; Mark 2:4; Luke 6:2), but this was without foundation from the scripture, an therefore all incorrect and merely based upon their man-made traditions, and their hatred of Jesus.

    Jesus repeats the words, "not lawful" (Matthew 12:4; Mark 2:26; Luke 6:4) using an actual example of a "not lawful" action from the scripture, in contrast to the Pharisees own personal definition of "not lawful" (Matthew 12:2; Mark 2:4; Luke 6:2). By doing this, Jesus effectively cut off the accusation of sabbath-breaking, or transgression by the disciples, and showed that the Pharisees accusation would have condemned "King" David himself and moreso, their accusation and watching was not in harmony with what was actually written.
     
  2. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    Jesus' rest is freedom from "sin" (1 John 3:4), not transgression of God's Law.

    Jesus is the Lord (present tense) of the Sabbath. Still is.

    The Sabbath commandment encompasses the whole week, not just the 7th day in which we rest, trusting in God to provide all, but it also includes the 6 other days of our common labour, and it encompasses all of creation.

    Salvation, is in Christ Jesus, and in Him is no "sin" (1 John 3:4), and anyone who says that they know Him, and keeps not the commandments, is a "liar" (1 John 2:4), and all "liars" (Revelation 21:8) shall have their part in the lake of fire, for they have chosen to be outside of Christ, choosing to remain in "sin" (1 John 3:4).

    The Commandment is about the LORD and His rest, which is unchangeable.
     
    #242 Crosstian, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    What?? :confused:. So in your view you think 7th day Adventists think it is wrong to eat on the Sabbath. Perhaps you need to get your facts right before posting.

    What?? :confused:.
    Your not being honest now brother are you o_O

    I found the article it is not an afficial Adventist statement and it also does not say what you are saying it says did you read it? It was answering someones question in relaiton to going to a restaurant on the Sabbath.

    I also noticed the link you provided conveniently goes no where. I googled to find the correct link if your interested in reading the article here - linked here for anyone interested.

    It shows that what you have posted here has no truth in it. This is sad for you brother as what you just claimed and posted was not true.

    Now did you have and scripture to share that shows that "THE LORDS DAY" is Sunday? If you do not why do you follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God?

    Something to pray and think about don't you think?
     
  4. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Your contradicting yourself how can you keep the whole law when resting in Christ and break God's 4th commandment when if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Think it through what you have just posted makes no sense.
     
  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    As posted to you earlier through the scriptures JESUS did not fulfill God's law in order for us to break them. Salvation is from sin not to continue in sin *John 8:31-36. According to God's Word sin is the transgression of any one of God's 10 Commandments *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4. All those who willfully continue in known unrepentant sin when they have been given a knowledge of the truth will not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *Romans 6:23 and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of Grace *Acts 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-39.

    You do not know what laws changed brother in the new covenant do you. Your mixed up with the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant for remission of sins (sin offerings, earthly Sanctuary ceremonial law in ordinances and the Levitical Priesthood) that changed in the new *Hebrews 7; Hebrews 8; Hebrews 9; Hebrews 10; Ephesians 2; Colossians 2 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments) that gives us a knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Pslams 119:172.

    Accoding to God's Word in the new covenant God's LAW gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and if we break and one of them we stand guilty before God of sin for sin is the transgression of God's Law *1 John 3:4. Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil. By their fruits you shall know them.

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished as we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a teaching and tradition of men that has led many to break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9.

    Who's side are you on? Who are God's people; those who believe and follow God's Word or those who reject God's Word in order to follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God?

    May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear.

    God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him.
     
  6. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Source material:
    https://adventistbiblicalresearch.org/materials/theology-sabbath/eating-restaurants-sabbath

    What it says:
    Eating in restaurants on Sabbath

    Author: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez

    Copyright © Biblical Research Institute General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists®

    Check it out - that is their beliefs.
    My belief is God stopped the Sabbath, so no one should observe it anymore.

    How do Jews observe the sabbath with respect to meals?
    Source material:
    Sabbath food preparation - Wikipedia

    What it says:
    Sabbath food preparation refers to the preparation and handling of food before the Sabbath, (also called Shabbat, or the seventh day of the week), the Bible day of rest, when cooking, baking, and the kindling of a fire are prohibited by the Word of God, and Jewish law.

    That is their belief, not mine
    They said it and you can check it out.
    What do you believe about cooking in a Sabbath?


    [​IMG]
     
  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is the correct link I just sent you in the previous post. It was not the link you had in your orignal post that did not link to this post. That is why I added it to my last post to you and no it was not saying what you were claiming it was saying. This is not an afficial Adventist statement about it is ok to go to restaraunts on the Sabbath and it also does not say what you are saying it says did you read it? It was answering someones question in relaiton to going to a restaurant on the Sabbath and saying it was not ok to do so. Perhaps you should read what you post befre posting it?
    Indeed it does. The article does not say that it is ok to go eating in restaurants on the Sabbath as you are claiming. It is answering a question in relation to if it is ok or not to go eating in restaurants on the Sabbath in which it goes on to show why it is not ok. What you were posting is either confused, dishonest or deceptive. This is sad for you. I read the article out of curiosity after having to search for it because your link did not work. Did you bother reading that article, or did you just read the headline and make your claims without reading what the article was talking about?
    Indeed that is your view and it is not biblical and a misrepresentation of the scriptures as shown you through other scriptures you ignore that contradict your interpretation of Isaiah and Hosea and show why you are in error. There is no scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a man made teaching and tradition of men that JESUS warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9.
    Preparing food before the Sabbath and not eating on the Sabbath are not the same thing. Your claims to people not eating on the Sabbath is not true. It is saying preparation of meals is done on the preparation day before the Sabbath. It is not saying people do not eat on the Sabbath. Sorry brother your whole post is confused.

    Hope this is helpful though
     
    #247 3rdAngel, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  8. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Eating is not ok on a Sabbath - as you have said it yourself
    The apostles ate on a Sabbath - as I have pointed out
    The Pharisees said it is not ok for the apostles to eat on a Sabbath
    You agreed.

    That makes you a fan of the Pharisee

    Matthew 12:1-2 New International Version (NIV)
    At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

    [​IMG]

    It is not about going to the restaurants, it is about picking up something to eat on a Sabbath.
    Which the apostles did.

    Sabbath food preparation refers to the preparation and handling of food before the Sabbath, (also called Shabbat, or the seventh day of the week), the Bible day of rest, when cooking, baking, and the kindling of a fire are prohibited by the Word of God, and Jewish law.
    Sabbath food preparation - Wikipedia
    Based on that you can't buy, prepare or even pick up food from a store or even go out on a Sabbath.
    That is what I read - that is what other people believe [I don't know about your kind because you are too hush hush on your Sabbath activities]

    So when your kind sees another person picking up something to eat
    upload_2019-11-21_23-20-10.jpeg

    I believe your reaction would be
    "Excuse me Miss, doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath."
    [​IMG]
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  9. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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  10. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    I said no such thing, this is something you are claiming and promoting that is not true. You have been shown the opposite.
    What has that got to do with your claims that no one is able to eat on the Sabbath when you have been shown that your claims here are not true?
    No! You have been shown from the scriptures that the Pharisees placed man-made teachings and traditions on the Sabbath that were not biblical and Jesus taught them what is lawful to do and not do on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12.
    No that makes you a fan of the Pharisees. I do not follow man made teaching and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. I believe and follow God's Word and so should you.
    No! The apostles and JESUS did not go to a restaraunt to eat on the Sabbath forcing others to work on their behalf and pay them to make their food.
    Correct as said in the article it is prohibited by the Word of God so that is bible law.
    That is why there is a preparation day in God's Word to prepare food before the Sabbath. JESUS and the Apostles were eating there meal directly from the field so therefore not breaking God's law. The bible says nothing in God's 4th commandment about having to stay home on the Sabbath. You making this up again.
    Sorry I do not know what you are talking about
    Sadly your claims have no truth in them and you do not know me or the Word of God.
     
    #250 3rdAngel, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  11. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    JESUS does indeed state the Sabbath was made for all mankind. To that shortly.

    I see, in your view you do not believe that God's Word is written for all of God's people. Yet it is God's Word (not mine) that says; All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness *2 Timothy 3:16 and man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God *Matthew 4:4.

    God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word *Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. If you are not as part of God's ISRAEL than you have no part in the new covenantn promise *Hebrews 8:10-12.

    This was shared elsewhere...

    JESUS (God's Word) says

    Mark 2:27 , And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the Sabbath.

    Mark 2:27 GNT TR - και ελεγεν αυτοις το σαββατον δια τον ανθρωπον εγενετο ουχ ο ανθρωπος δια το σαββατον

    Literally, the sabbath [of the LORD [JEHOVAH], the 7th day, context] was made or created for the man

    The only "the [definite article] man" [Hebrew: 'ha adam'] [singular] that was around when things were "made" [thus at Genesis], is "Adam" [and all humanity in him being mankind]. This agrees with Genesis 2:7, which speaks of "the Adam":

    The Sabbath was made for WHO? The Sabbath was made for MAN (not JEW and not ISRAEL). So here we have the God of creation telling us why the 7th Day was made a Holy day. It was made for MANKIND

    STRONGS Greek
    MAN G444 ἄνθρωποςanthropos (an'-thrō-pos) n.
    1. (literally) man†-visage (i.e. a man-faced being, a man who has visibly come of age).
    2. (concretely, in Hebrew) a clay being (a classification of beings made in the image of God, who made them male and female). 3. (generically, in English) a human being. 4. (indefinitely) a certain man (i.e. someone). [from G435 and ops “the countenance” (from G3700)] KJV: certain, man Root(s): G435, G3700

    Now brother these are Gods' Words not mine. I choose to believe them.

    How about you?
     
    #251 3rdAngel, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  12. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    So then, you reject that the sabbath was given as a sign between the God and Israel, forever, as the Torah states.

    Your answer is that God abandoned the Jews, He did not really mean forever, and He replaced them with Seventh Day Adventists, replacement theology, so now that sign applies to you.

    Your contention is that the ten commandments ( since you contend they can never be divided) applied to our original parents, at their creation. They kept the sabbath.

    However, that cannot be true, since they had no knowledge of good and evil and there was only one rule given to them " do not eat".

    Paul tells us that the law defined good and evil.

    Placing yourself squarely under the law of Israel, do you think your denomination is doing better at it than Israel did ?

    I knew a number of GC officers in my day, as well as a couple of GC presidents, all fine people, yet I never heard one say they KEPT the law. They appeared to be just like me, trying to keep the law, a big difference. I never once was able to say, then, or now, that I was sinless. How about you ?

    A neat trick SDA's use is to place themselves under only part of the law. They say that yes, some of the law was eliminated.

    So then, the Jews considered the Torah ( books of the law) all as one. They never parsed it in pieces. It was ALL given by God through Moses. The fact that part was given to Moses written on stone, and part given to Moses by inspiration was irrelevant to them. If it had all been given to Moses on stone, the Israelites would have needed a semi truck to carry it around. The stone tablets and the written on parchment law were carried in the same conveyance.

    I call Adventism the religion of assumption.

    When the law is spoken of as being abolished, they assume it is the so called ceremonial law, a distinction the Jews never made. This set of laws, the part of the law the Adventists don't like, is eliminated.

    It s all the Law of Moses, it is all just The Law, the terms are interchangable.

    So tell me, where does the Bible tell us that we can ignore part of the law, and must worship the other part ?
     
  13. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    Already addressed:

    There is no text that says that the sabbath is only for "jews". Again, Zipporah wasn't a Jew, neither the mixed multitude. Moses was Hebrew of Levi.

    To begin with, Jesus Christ is the true Israel, the anti-type, the Israel that is not the type as Jacob was.

    Jesus is Israel (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; his children are his disciples; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), the true "overcomer" (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21), the real "Prince" with God (Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5), being Lord over His own house, whose house are we (Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20). The promises made by God were all based upon condition (Exodus 19).

    Mat 2:13-15; Hos 11:1; Jer 31:33; Rom 9:6-8; Heb 2:13; Isa 8:16,18; Jhn 13:33, 16:33, 17:12, 18:9, 21:5; 1 Cor 15:46; 2 Cor 1:20; Gal 6:16; Heb 3:6, 8:8,10; Rev 3:21​

    'Israel' "after the flesh", as a 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire.

    The New [or Everlasting] Covenant is only made with the spiritual “Israel” (Jesus Christ, the "elect" of the Father; Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18-20), this “Judah” (Revelation 5:5) and His “house” (2 Corinthians 1:20 KJB - For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.; – for Christ Jesus, the true “Israel” is the “elect” of God, and thus all who choose to be in Him; see Isaiah 42:1, 45:4, 65:9 KJB)

    Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of [the] man.
    Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.​

    See that verse 13? it reads in Hebrew:

    Ecc 12:13 סוף דבר הכל נשׁמע את־האלהים ירא ואת־מצותיו שׁמור כי־זה כל־האדם׃
    Ecc 12:14 כי את־כל־מעשׂה האלהים יבא במשׁפט על כל־נעלם אם־טוב ואם־רע׃​

    Just in case you don't read Hebrew, here's transliterated Hebrew:

    12:13 šôf Dävär haKol nish'mä et-häélohiym y'rä w'et-mitz'wotäyw sh'môr Kiy-zeh Käl-ädäm
    12:14 Kiy et-Käl-maáseh häélohiym yävi v'mish'Pä† al Käl-ne'läm im-†ôv w'im-rä​

    Thus, all mankind of Adam are to keep God's commandments. Not only Adam the first, but also Adam the Last, for the Sabbath was made for "the man":

    Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for [the] man, and not [the] man for the sabbath:

    Mar 2:27 και ελεγεν αυτοις το σαββατον δια τον ανθρωπον εγενετο ουχ ο ανθρωπος δια το σαββατον

    Gen 1:27 so called LXX καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον, κατ᾿ εἰκόνα θεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν, ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς.​

    Notice:

    1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
    1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.​

    So is Jesus another (last) Adam, the second "man", according to the texts?

    The "sabbath" was "made" (creation; Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:11) for "the man", yes?


    Good, now read:

    Col 1:16 For by him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Col 1:16 HNTDD כי־בו נברא כל אשר בשמים ואשר בארץ כל הנראה וכל אשר־איננו נראה הן כסאות וממשלות הן שררות ורשיות הכל נברא על־ידו ולמענהו׃​

    Therefore, Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, who speaks what Jesus says, coming in His name, says that the Sabbath was made/created "for him [Jesus]", and thus all in him, even as it was for the original Adam and all in him
     
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  14. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    There were NO RESTAURANTS back then, so how can they go out?
    The mere fact they went to the wheat fields [source of food] and picked up grains to eat was enough.
    If there were a PIZZA PLACE, I bet they would do the same.

    What are your do's and don'ts on a Sabbath [assuming it is still in effect]?

    Can you fill up gas tank?
    upload_2019-11-22_7-44-19.jpeg

    Can you go out on the first place?
    [​IMG]

    Can you attend a birthday party of your loved ones?
    upload_2019-11-22_7-50-40.jpeg

    Assuming questions on what you do in a Sabbath assuming God didn't stop the Sabbath 700 years before Christ was born.

    Isaiah 1:13 New International Version (NIV)
    Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
    Your incense is detestable to me.
    New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
    I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.


    Isaiah[a] was the 8th-century BC Jewish prophet after whom the Book of Isaiah is named



    Hosea 2:11 New International Version (NIV)
    I will stop all her celebrations:
    her yearly festivals, her New Moons,
    her Sabbath days—all her appointed festivals.


    In the Hebrew Bible, Hosea (/ˌhoʊˈziːə/ or /hoʊˈzeɪə/; Hebrew: הוֹשֵׁעַ – Hōšēaʿ, 'Salvation'; Greek: Ὡσηέ – Hōsēé), son of Beeri, was an 8th-century BC prophet in Israel who authored the book of prophecies bearing his name.
     
  15. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    Purchasing food in the shambles is not the same as grazing from what God provided in nature, from the fields, or trees, vines. God allowed the latter, not the former, on Sabbath.

    Yes:

    Deu 23:24 When thou comest into thy neighbour's vineyard, then thou mayest eat grapes thy fill at thine own pleasure; but thou shalt not put any in thy vessel.
    Deu 23:25 When thou comest into the standing corn of thy neighbour, then thou mayest pluck the ears with thine hand; but thou shalt not move a sickle unto thy neighbour's standing corn.​

    No:

    Neh 13:15 In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.
    Neh 13:16 There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.
    Neh 13:17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?​
     
  16. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    CLICK ON THE QUOTE OR REPLY BUTTON when responding.

    Is it wrong to jog on a Sabbath day?
    Assuming the Sabbath day is still in effect.

    [​IMG]

    Not purchasing or eating anything.
    Just exercising and enjoying the sun.
     
  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    You were the one trying to make comparisons to JESUS and the disciples eating in the field and going out to restaruants today not me.

    The fact that you would even suggest this only shows you do not know your bible.

    Exodus 20:1-17

    Can you fill up gas tank?

    Yes. Did Jesus go to Church on the Sabbath *Luke 4:16

    Some like to do these things after the Sabbath is closed. It depends what type of party and if you are involved doing work or cooking etc.

    God's 10 commandments are God's eternal laws that in the new Covenant give us the knowledge of what GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS are *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 1 John 3:4 and if we break and one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. The annual feasts stopped when ISRAEL went into captivity due to Idol worship. When they came out of captivity they sought to follow God again. JESUS and all the Apostles kept the Sabbath and taught others to do the same *Luke 4:16; Acts 13:14; Acts 13:27; Acts13:44; Acts15:21; Acts 16:13; Acts17:2; Acts18:4

    Three facts in regard to Isaiah 1:13 and Hosea 2:11 that show why your interpretation of them claiming that God ended the 4th commandment 700 years before the birth of JESUS is in error...

    1a. Both prophets around the 8th -century BC were condemning Israel for Idolarty and departing from God and fortelling of the end of the annual festivals and annual shadow sabbaths in ordinances connected to these feast days and appointed to festivals . This is made clear by the fact of the reference to ISAIAH 1:13 to solemn assemblies and holy convocations as shown in Leviticus 23 and repeated in Hosea 2:11.

    ............

    2b. The books of Isaiah and Hosea were written from the 8th -century BC fortelling of the punishment of Israel for Idolatry and the latter returing of Israel to God. The punishment here being God sending them into Assyrian captivity linked. Tiglath-Pileser III (Pul) and Shalmaneser V. The later Assyrian rulers Sargon II and his son and successor, Sennacherib, were responsible for finishing the twenty-year demise of Israel's northern ten-tribe kingdom, although they did not overtake the Southern Kingdom. Jerusalem was besieged, but not taken. The tribes forcibly resettled by Assyria later became known as the Ten Lost Tribes. This put a temporary end to the annual feast days and festivals, new moons and sabbaths and holy convocations of Leviticus 23.

    The captivities began in approximately 740 BCE (or 733/2 BCE according to other sources).[1]

    And the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul king of Assyria, and the spirit of Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria, and he carried them away, even the Reubenites, and the Gadites, and the half tribe of Manasseh, and brought them unto Halah, and Habor, and Hara, and to the river Gozan, unto this day. (1 Chronicles 5:26)

    In the days of Pekah king of Israel came Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, and he took Ijon, and Abelbethmaachah, and Janoah, and Kedesh, and Hazor, and Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naphtali, and carried them captive to Assyria. (2 Kings 15:29)

    In 722 BCE, nearly ten to twenty years after the initial deportations, the ruling city of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, Samaria, was finally taken by Sargon II after a three-year siege started by Shalmaneser V.

    Against him came up Shalmaneser king of Assyria; and Hoshea became his servant, and gave him presents.

    And the king of Assyria found conspiracy in Hoshea: for he had sent messengers to So king of Egypt, and brought no present to the king of Assyria, as he had done year by year: therefore the king of Assyria shut him up, and bound him in prison. Then the king of Assyria came up throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria, and besieged it three years.

    In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes. (2 Kings 17:3–6)

    And the king of Assyria did carry away Israel unto Assyria and put them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes: because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD their God, but transgressed his covenant, and all that Moses the servant of the LORD commanded and would not hear them, nor do them. (2 Kings 18:11–12).

    This all put a temporary end to the annual feast days and festivals, new moons and sabbaths and holy convocations of Leviticus 23.

    Source: Assyrian captivity wiki

    ............

    3c
    . JESUS kept the Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment when was alive as it was his custom to do so *Luke 4:11. All the Apostles continued keeping God's 4th Commandment Sabbath even after the death and resurrection of Jesus and Jesus also warned them that in the future the would be keeping the Sabbath at the destruction of Jerusalem *Matthew 24:20; Acts 13:14; Acts 13:27; Acts 13:44; Acts 15:21; Acts 16:13; Acts 17:2; Acts 18:4.

    .............

    SUMMARY FROM THE SCRIPTURES THAT SHOW WHY YOU ARE IN ERROR

    1a.
    Every reference cited in both Hosea 2:11 and Isaiah 1:13 is a reference to the annual feast days and festivals in Leviticus 23 and not a direct reference to God's 4th commandment in Exodus 20:8-11. There are many special sabbath linked to the annual fest days of Leviticus 23. This being said both references are linked to the judgments of God for Isreals idolarty and Israels punisment and going into captivity to the Assyrians meaning that these days of holy convocation linked to Leviticus 23 would be coming to an end until Israel retuned to God.

    .............


    2b. Both Isaiah and Hosea made these prophecies around a similar time period (8th century BC) as a result of Israel going into idolatry and what God would do as a result of Israel departing from his Word *Hosea 2:11 I will stop all her celebrations... This is shown in 1 Chronicles 5:26 when the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul king of Assyria, and the spirit of Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria, and he carried them away, even the Reubenites, and the Gadites, and the half tribe of Manasseh, and brought them unto Halah, and Habor, and Hara, and to the river Gozan, unto this day and latter in 2 Kings 15:29 In the days of Pekah king of Israel came Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, and he took Ijon, and Abelbethmaachah, and Janoah, and Kedesh, and Hazor, and Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naphtali, and carried them captive to Assyria.

    .............

    3c. All of the above scripture references show why your interpretation of Hosea and Isaiah are in error. If according to you Gods' 4th commandment was abolished 700 years before the birth of Christ you think JESUS would have mentioned it in the new testament somewhere? He didn't he continued keeping God's 4th commandment Sabbath as did all the Apostles and disciples. Just this very fact alone shows you are in error.

    .............

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. The is a man made teaching and tradition of men that has led many to break God's 4th commandment. Just like any one of God's 10 commandments if we knowingly break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin. If we sin willfully after we have received a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *Hebrews 10:26-39.

    May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.


    Hope this helps
     
    #257 3rdAngel, Nov 22, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  18. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Leviticus 23 does not mention nor contain TEMPORARY END OR SUSPENSION

    [​IMG]

    Twisting to fit?
    Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 23 - New International Version

    Lamentations 2:5-6 Good News Translation (GNT)

    Like an enemy, the Lord has destroyed Israel;
    He has left her forts and palaces in ruins.
    He has brought on the people of Judah unending sorrow.


    He smashed to pieces the Temple where we worshiped him;
    He has put an end to holy days and Sabbaths.
    King and priest alike have felt the force of his anger.


    OFFICIALLY GOD ENDED THE SABBATH ON THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FIRST TEMPLE [LETTER FOR LETTER; IN VERBATIM] He has put an end to holy days and Sabbaths.

    The Book of Lamentations is a reflection by the Prophet Jeremiah on the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 586 BC, with the subsequent Babylonian Exile. The Book contains five poems of 22 verses each, except for Chapter 3 which contains 66 verses. Each verse of the first four chapters begins with successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet, Chapter 3 having three lines for each letter. While the poetry expressed pain and sorrow over the loss of Jerusalem, there is also an acceptance of punishment for the sins of Israel in their disregard for the way of the Lord. Finally there is an expression of hope that God will one day provide deliverance from their chastisement.

    How does that feel?

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Well sadly brother it is you who is trying to twist the scriptures to fit. Read the post and the scriptures shared with you they show why your in error. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear. The references to Leviticus 23 show the annual feast days and special Sabbaths and everything linked to Hosea 2:11 and Isaiah 1:13 all you have managed is to repeat yourself without showing what I have shared with you is not correct. Yet the very reason you will not respond to the post and scriptures share with you is because they show why you are in error and you cannot deny it. Everything that is provided to you has both biblical and historical proof and you cannot deny it brother. Do not harden your heart. Receieve God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear.
     
  20. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    NO MENTION IT WAS SPECIAL SABBATH FROM NON SPECIAL SABBATH
    More twistings?

    Assuming for a while, we are all Israelites
    and for a while, I would forget I was born a Filipino
    Assuming for a while there was no Lamentations 2:6, or Hosea 2:11 and Isaiah 1:13
    and for a while I would forget that these verses do not mention God ENDED the Sabbath

    Assuming...
    Is it wrong to switch on the lights during Sabbath nights?

    [​IMG]
     
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