The Lord's Catch-22

[Ben Avraham]

The Lord's Catch-22

According to a certain midrash reported by Thomas Mann in his book "Joseph and his Brothers," after a while that Abraham had arrived in Canaan, from his country and folks in Ur of the Chaldeans, he was deeply impressed about the deep love with which the Canaanites would love their gods as to offer their firstborn son in a burn sacrifice. Abraham would go frustrate to think that he could not express his love for Elohim in such a dramatic way.

As Abraham would try to chew that paradox in his mind, he fell asleep and had a dream. Elohim would identify Himself thus: I am Molech, bull-king of the baalites and command you to bring your firstborn son Isaac and offer him in a burn sacrifice to Me. As Abraham set about to do so, the Lord said, "How dare you! Am I Molech bull-king of the baalites? I expected you to know much better. What I have commanded, I did not command so that you would do it, but that you might learn that you should not do it; because it is nothing but an abomination in My sight, instead; and don't confuse the practices of the Gentiles with the People you are to sire. Behold a ram; offer it instead.

Ignorance is an abomination in the Lord's sight. When Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat of the tree of knowledge, it was the Lord's catch-22 to rather enhance man's appetite for the tree of knowledge. If the prohibition were to be observed, the fruit of that tree would not have been so enticing and the tree would not have been planted in the center of the garden to call the attention of all. And the Lord would not have employed the services of the serpent to explain that they had misunderstood the command which had been meant to be rather the opposite. As Adam and Eve realized what the Lord really meant, the abomination of ignorance had been neutralized.

 

[atpollard]

So little regard for even your own sacred scriptures.

How sad.

 

[Tumah]

The Lord's Catch-22

According to a certain midrash reported by Thomas Mann in his book "Joseph and his Brothers," after a while that Abraham had arrived in Canaan, from his country and folks in Ur of the Chaldeans, he was deeply impressed about the deep love with which the Canaanites would love their gods as to offer their firstborn son in a burn sacrifice. Abraham would go frustrate to think that he could not express his love for Elohim in such a dramatic way.

As Abraham would try to chew that paradox in his mind, he fell asleep and had a dream. Elohim would identify Himself thus: I am Molech, bull-king of the baalites and command you to bring your firstborn son Isaac and offer him in a burn sacrifice to Me. As Abraham set about to do so, the Lord said, "How dare you! Am I Molech bull-king of the baalites? I expected you to know much better. What I have commanded, I did not command so that you would do it, but that you might learn that you should not do it; because it is nothing but an abomination in My sight, instead; and don't confuse the practices of the Gentiles with the People you are to sire. Behold a ram; offer it instead.

As I'm not familiar with the Midrash D'Thomas Mann, I'd appreciate if you could quote that Midrash in its original text.
Thanks.

Ignorance is an abomination in the Lord's sight. When Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat of the tree of knowledge, it was the Lord's catch-22 to rather enhance man's appetite for the tree of knowledge. If the prohibition were to be observed, the fruit of that tree would not have been so enticing and the tree would not have been planted in the center of the garden to call the attention of all. And the Lord would not have employed the services of the serpent to explain that they had misunderstood the command which had been meant to be rather the opposite. As Adam and Eve realized what the Lord really meant, the abomination of ignorance had been neutralized.

I don't see a catch 22 here. Adam was commanded not to eat from the tree. Rationalizations are not a legitimate reason to eat from it as there was no exceptions made in the commandment.

 

[Ingledsva]

We know the ancient Hebrew people did sacrifice the First Born to God.

So the thought is out there, - that the Abraham STOPPED from sacrificing Isaac story, is a teaching story for the new NO child sacrifice laws.

*

 

[Desert Snake]

The Lord's Catch-22

According to a certain midrash reported by Thomas Mann in his book "Joseph and his Brothers," after a while that Abraham had arrived in Canaan, from his country and folks in Ur of the Chaldeans, he was deeply impressed about the deep love with which the Canaanites would love their gods as to offer their firstborn son in a burn sacrifice. Abraham would go frustrate to think that he could not express his love for Elohim in such a dramatic way.

As Abraham would try to chew that paradox in his mind, he fell asleep and had a dream. Elohim would identify Himself thus: I am Molech, bull-king of the baalites and command you to bring your firstborn son Isaac and offer him in a burn sacrifice to Me. As Abraham set about to do so, the Lord said, "How dare you! Am I Molech bull-king of the baalites? I expected you to know much better. What I have commanded, I did not command so that you would do it, but that you might learn that you should not do it; because it is nothing but an abomination in My sight, instead; and don't confuse the practices of the Gentiles with the People you are to sire. Behold a ram; offer it instead.

Ignorance is an abomination in the Lord's sight. When Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat of the tree of knowledge, it was the Lord's catch-22 to rather enhance man's appetite for the tree of knowledge. If the prohibition were to be observed, the fruit of that tree would not have been so enticing and the tree would not have been planted in the center of the garden to call the attention of all. And the Lord would not have employed the services of the serpent to explain that they had misunderstood the command which had been meant to be rather the opposite. As Adam and Eve realized what the Lord really meant, the abomination of ignorance had been neutralized.

This doesn't follow Chavvah being punished hence, /and Adam..
So, the premise doesn't seem to work, really.

 

[Ben Avraham]

So little regard for even your own sacred scriptures.

How sad.

No, Atpollard, rather wonderful is to seek the Truth when one walks by sight and not by faith. (II Cor. 5:7)

 

[Ben Avraham]

This doesn't follow Chavvah being punished hence, /and Adam..
So, the premise doesn't seem to work, really.

Punishment would be to keep Adam & Eve stuck in the Garden of Eden without the chance to expand their aptitude to achieve knowledge. (Hosea 4:6) Neither Adam nor Eve were punished by having having be assigned their natural roles: Adam to live our of his own work in the field and Eve to expand the work of God with babies.

 

[Ingledsva]

I think you folks need to look to older creation myths to find the meanings of some of these Tanakh stories. Such as the Babylonian Enuma Elish.

I like -

Gen 1:1 At the Beginning of creation of the Elohiym, were the æther and primeval chaos matter:

2 And the chaos matter that was in existence was without form and undistinguishable; and concealed/veiled within the form of teh-home'-Tiamat-the Deep. And the consciousness/instinct/WISDOM of the Elohiym Brooded (covered to hatch the EGG) to bring forth from the Mayim/waters(Deep)

3 And then invoked the Elohiym into existence …

*

 

[Ingledsva]

I don't know how two came about. LOL!

*

 

[Ben Avraham]

I think you folks need to look to older creation myths to find the meanings of some of these Tanakh stories. Such as the Babylonian Enuma Elish.

I like -

Gen 1:1 At the Beginning of creation of the Elohiym, were the æther and primeval chaos matter:

2 And the chaos matter that was in existence was without form and undistinguishable; and concealed/veiled within the form of teh-home'-Tiamat-the Deep. And the consciousness/instinct/WISDOM of the Elohiym Brooded (covered to hatch the EGG) to bring forth from the Mayim/waters(Deep)

3 And then invoked the Elohiym into existence …

*

I wonder what Bible you are reading. Where in the Bible is written that Elohim was created? I can't find such a reference in Genesis 1:1. And the chaos matter you claim was in existence, how did it come into existence? Some thing must
have caused it to exist. How was it?

 

[atpollard]

No, Atpollard, rather wonderful is to seek the Truth when one walks by sight and not by faith. (II Cor. 5:7)

I once saw David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear.
God has never lied to me or tried to trick me, that's why I have more faith in Him than my eyes.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I once saw David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear.
God has never lied to me or tried to trick me, that's why I have more faith in Him than my eyes.

That's not God Who lies or tricks you into any thing but your own mind when under the control of Christian preconceived notions.

 

[atpollard]

That's not God Who lies or tricks you into any thing but your own mind when under the control of Christian preconceived notions.

No, it was my eyes with David Copperfield ... but you can go ahead and trust yours.

 

[Ingledsva]

I wonder what Bible you are reading. Where in the Bible is written that Elohim was created? I can't find such a reference in Genesis 1:1. And the chaos matter you claim was in existence, how did it come into existence? Some thing must
have caused it to exist. How was it?

I was on a site that was comparing ancient creation stories.

They noted comparisons between the Hebrew text and the Babylonian.

One of the things noted was that the Hebrew sentence in Gen 1:1 can be taken as even the Elohiym CAME into being - from what existed. Who knows how? It is a story.

I might add that the way it is written - it makes more sense in modern theory. The æther and primeval chaos matter were already existent, - when came to being, what we are calling the "God" force, which then continues to bring out of the chaos what we see.

Gen 1:1 At the Beginning of creation of the Elohiym, were the æther and primeval chaos matter:

2 And the chaos matter that was in existence was without form and undistinguishable; and concealed/veiled within the form of teh-home'-Tiamat-the Deep. And the consciousness/instinct/WISDOM of the Elohiym Brooded (covered to hatch the EGG) to bring forth from the Mayim/waters(Deep)

*

 

[ukok102nak]

No, Atpollard, rather wonderful is to seek the Truth when one walks by sight and not by faith. (II Cor. 5:7)

~;> as it is written
:read:
2 Corinthians 5:7
for we walk by faith, not by sight.

the sight signified those things who walks
in
sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, men who practice sexual relations with men,
thieves, covetous, drunkards, slanderers, extortioners
but as they say
so as it is written
:read:
1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor men who practice sexual relations with men,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortioners, will inherit the Kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you, but you were washed. But you were sanctified. But you were justified in the name of the Lord Yeshua, and in the Spirit of our God.

and those people who were mentioned in the verse were not been mentioned if they were blind nor deaf
and still they were given to chance to fulfill their lost faith unto god

also
some faith came unto those people who were given a chance to see what most people were unable to behold since the creation of human beings
but the luckiest were those given a chance to return from the world of the living to make things right
thats why
as it is written and so as it is written
read if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[ukok102nak]

I was on a site that was comparing ancient creation stories.

They noted comparisons between the Hebrew text and the Babylonian.

One of the things noted was that the Hebrew sentence in Gen 1:1 can be taken as even the Elohiym CAME into being - from what existed. Who knows how? It is a story.

I might add that the way it is written - it makes more sense in modern theory. The æther and primeval chaos matter were already existent, - when came to being, what we are calling the "God" force, which then continues to bring out of the chaos what we see.

Gen 1:1 At the Beginning of creation of the Elohiym, were the æther and primeval chaos matter:

2 And the chaos matter that was in existence was without form and undistinguishable; and concealed/veiled within the form of teh-home'-Tiamat-the Deep. And the consciousness/instinct/WISDOM of the Elohiym Brooded (covered to hatch the EGG) to bring forth from the Mayim/waters(Deep)

*

~;> the legendary ancient old ones of the deepest darkness before light is been created into this reality
as the spirit of the god is moving in the face of the waters
so as it is written
:read:
Genesis 1:2
And the earth came to be formless and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Elohim was moving on the face of the waters.

imagine how come there such a thing that is called earth
that is came to be formless meaning without any form nor shape and empty meaning nothing at all literally
And the earth came to be formless and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Elohim was moving on the face of the waters.
as the legend says
there were creatures beneath that waters
for some translated the empty space in this reality
meaning the outer space
as the vast ocean of space
literally
thats why it match up the term waters in the beginning
coz literally if anyone could notice
theres no literal water in space
and only a spirit of light could move unto the vacuum of space that is within the darkness itself
from below and unto above
when light is never created within that moment

but there is more than meets the eye than this becaused unto this legend came an unknown evil that is beyond within any human imagination

just as this verses
says
:read: (so as it is written)
Proverbs 8:22
“יהוה possessed me, The beginning of His way, As the first of His works of old.
23 “I was set up ages ago, at the first, Before the earth ever was.
24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs heavy with water.
25 “Before mountains were sunk, Before the hills, I was brought forth,
26 “Before He had made the earth and the fields, Or the first dust of the world.
27 “When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He decreed a vault on the face of the deep,
28 “When He set the clouds above, When He made the fountains of the deep strong,
29 “When He gave to the sea its limit, So that the waters would not transgress His command, When He decreed the foundations of the earth,
30 “Then I was beside Him, a master workman, And I was His delight, day by day Rejoicing before Him all the time,
31 “Rejoicing in the world, His earth; And my delights were with the sons of men.

remember always
When there were no depths
the only begotten son of god
was brought forth,
When there were no springs heavy with water.
again
meaning the outer space
as the vast ocean of space
literally
thats why it match up the term waters in the beginning
coz literally if anyone could notice
theres no literal waters in space

THE EVIL ONE IS THERE
DEFEATED BY
GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY WHO IS GOOD AND ALWAYS TRUE
WITH HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON AND
BY ALL OF US (JUST KIDDING)
ALTHOUGH THEY LOST HIS MOTHER DURING THAT BATTLE
BECAUSED
GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY
IS NOT FROM THIS REALITY
BUT THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON HAS AN EQUAL BROTHER THE the first-born of death WHO BETRAYED HIS OWN
EVIL ONE FATHER BY KILLING THEIR MOTHER
AND AFTER THAT THERE IS ONE WHO IS STLL ASKIN
HOW CAN ONE IMAGINE A SINGLE LIGHT FROM UNKNON REALM COULD FUSION UNTO THE MOTHER OF ALL DARKNESS
THE WIFE OF THE EVIL ONE (THOUGH SOME SAY THAT THIS EVIL ONE IS JUST ONE OF ITS PART
WHICH IS VERY FAMILIAR FROM WHAT
THE TRIUNE GOD BELIEFS THAT IN THREE PERSONAS THEY WERE ALL EQUAL AND AS ONE
MEANING THE FATHER IS ALSO THE SON
AND THE HOLY SPIRIT
ACCORDING TO THEIR DOCTRINE
WHICH WE ALSO NEVER BELIEVED
THAT IS WHY WE NEVER BELIEVED IN THAT TRIUNE GOD DOCTRINE

FOR WE ONLY BELIEVED IN
GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY AND
HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
ALONG WITH ALL THAT IS HOLY
(HOLY GHOST HOLY SPIRIT HOLY CREATED BEINGS
WE BELIEVED IN THEM BUT WE NEVER WORSHIPPED THEM AS WHAT WE DO TO
GOD THE FATHER AND HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON)
AS NO ONE EQUAL THE FATHER
FOR THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN HIS SON AND UNTO ALL THAT IS HOLY
(ALL THAT IS HOLY MEANS THOSE WHO WERE ALSO HOLY BUT NOT AS HOLY AS THE ALMIGHTY FATHER)

AS THEY SAY
ABOUT THE ANCIEN OLD ONES
ITS ONLY A LEGEND SO DONT BOTHER TO THINK ABOUT IT
if we may say so
by :smoke: and the elders and . .. the other and
so as the others as well as
the another and the anothers and
the prodigal son etc etc blah blah ... .


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[Ben Avraham]

~;> as it is written
:read:
2 Corinthians 5:7
for we walk by faith, not by sight.

the sight signified those things who walks
in
sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, men who practice sexual relations with men,
thieves, covetous, drunkards, slanderers, extortioners
but as they say so as it is written
:read: 1 Corinthians 6:9

~;> as it is written
:read: 2 Corinthians 5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. the sight signified those things who walks in sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, men who practice sexual relations with men, thieves, covetous, drunkards, slanderers, extortioners but as they say
so as it is written :read: 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor men who practice sexual relations with men,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortioners, will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you, but you were washed. But you were sanctified. But you were justified in the name of the Lord Yeshua, and in the Spirit of our God. and those people who were mentioned in the verse were not been mentioned if they were blind nor deaf and still they were given to chance to fulfill their lost faith unto god
also some faith came unto those people who were given a chance to see what most people were unable to behold since the creation of human beings but the luckiest were those given a chance to return from the world of the living to make things right thats why as it is written and so as it is written read if we may say so

And, do you understand why Paul said that his followers walked by faith and not by sight? Because, to walk by sight is to walk with understanding and to walk by faith is to walk in the dark of knowledge while leaving the understanding with Paul. He probably did not want his disciples to have a mind of their own.

 

[Ben Avraham]

~;> as it is written
:read:
2 Corinthians 5:7
for we walk by faith, not by sight.

the sight signified those things who walks
in
sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, men who practice sexual relations with men,
thieves, covetous, drunkards, slanderers, extortioners
but as they say
so as it is written
:read:
1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor men who practice sexual relations with men,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortioners, will inherit the Kingdom of God.

11 Such were some of you, but you were washed. But you were sanctified. But you were justified in the name of the Lord Yeshua, and in the Spirit of our God.

And do you know why Paul said in II Cor. 5:7 that his disciples were to walk by faith and not by sight? Because, to walk by sight, one walks with understanding while by faith, his disciples would walk and leave the understanding with him. Probably, he did not
want his disciples to have a mind of their own.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I was on a site that was comparing ancient creation stories.

They noted comparisons between the Hebrew text and the Babylonian.

One of the things noted was that the Hebrew sentence in Gen 1:1 can be taken as even the Elohiym CAME into being - from what existed. Who knows how? It is a story.

I might add that the way it is written - it makes more sense in modern theory. The æther and primeval chaos matter were already existent, - when came to being, what we are calling the "God" force, which then continues to bring out of the chaos what we see.

Gen 1:1 At the Beginning of creation of the Elohiym, were the æther and primeval chaos matter:

2 And the chaos matter that was in existence was without form and undistinguishable; and concealed/veiled within the form of teh-home'-Tiamat-the Deep. And the consciousness/instinct/WISDOM of the Elohiym Brooded (covered to hatch the EGG) to bring forth from the Mayim/waters(Deep)

*

Matter could have never been in existence before it was caused to exist. Why? Because matter could not have caused itself to exist. If it always existed as you claim, there would be no need to further cause itself to exist if it already existed. If it did not exist, obviously, it could not have caused itself to exist because it was not there to do so. Therefore, some thing or some one
caused it to exist for we to have the universe which is composed of matter. I see that we have
no other option but to admit the Creator of the universe. Would you think any other way? I don't think so, if you ask me.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

The Lord's Catch-22

According to a certain midrash reported by Thomas Mann in his book "Joseph and his Brothers," after a while that Abraham had arrived in Canaan, from his country and folks in Ur of the Chaldeans, he was deeply impressed about the deep love with which the Canaanites would love their gods as to offer their firstborn son in a burn sacrifice. Abraham would go frustrate to think that he could not express his love for Elohim in such a dramatic way.

As Abraham would try to chew that paradox in his mind, he fell asleep and had a dream. Elohim would identify Himself thus: I am Molech, bull-king of the baalites and command you to bring your firstborn son Isaac and offer him in a burn sacrifice to Me. As Abraham set about to do so, the Lord said, "How dare you! Am I Molech bull-king of the baalites? I expected you to know much better. What I have commanded, I did not command so that you would do it, but that you might learn that you should not do it; because it is nothing but an abomination in My sight, instead; and don't confuse the practices of the Gentiles with the People you are to sire. Behold a ram; offer it instead.

Ignorance is an abomination in the Lord's sight. When Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat of the tree of knowledge, it was the Lord's catch-22 to rather enhance man's appetite for the tree of knowledge. If the prohibition were to be observed, the fruit of that tree would not have been so enticing and the tree would not have been planted in the center of the garden to call the attention of all. And the Lord would not have employed the services of the serpent to explain that they had misunderstood the command which had been meant to be rather the opposite. As Adam and Eve realized what the Lord really meant, the abomination of ignorance had been neutralized.

The last paragraph I would disagree.
On the first; I would say do you know how to break a double bind? I met someone who did.