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Featured The Little Horn of Revelation

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by OtherSheep, May 10, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Do understand that there was NO Daniel.. The authors of Daniel added on to the book in 165-67 AD about Antiochus IV .. Early Daniel is all historical fiction.. The imaginary Daniel was never in Babylon nor in the court of Nebuchadnezzar.

    I know it shocking, but its the truth. If you have missed all the links I have posted, do your own research, but don't be deceived by "Daniel" again.
     
  2. ben d

    ben d Being

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    We can agree that there has been a lot of editing, adding to, etc., to the Book of Daniel, as it has been with most of scripture as it comes down to us, but we can not dismiss the possibility of there being some underlying truth in the myth of Daniel and the writings of those who are responsible for it in its present form.. Iow, prophecy is not to do with the messenger, it is all about the message, not withstanding the fact that some of it is not prophetic at all, but served some other purpose, political or otherwise.
     
  3. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu and a strong atheist. Hinduism is a pagan religion.
    Checked. With us it is what you know as Star of David and not what you know as Star of Solomon. Sure, Swastika or the sign of Sun is a very old symbol and has been used by nearly all cultures, and so is the wheel - simple geometrical shapes. However, the wheel did not have any religious importance in Hinduism, only the Konark temple in Odisha has a very beautiful and large wheels representing the Sun's chariot. :D

    "Dedicated to the Hindu sun god Surya, what remains of the temple complex has the appearance of a 100-foot (30 m) high chariot with immense wheels and horses, all carved from stone. Once over 200 feet (61 m) high, .. It has 24 elaborately carved stone wheels which are nearly 12 feet (3.7 m) in diameter and are pulled by a set of seven horses."
    Konark Sun Temple - Wikipedia



    Hindu units of time :
    Ahoratra: day and night
    Prahara: 8 in a day
    Muhurta: 30 in a Prahara
    (that is why 8 spokes and 30 beads in each Prahara)
     
    #123 Aupmanyav, Jul 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  4. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Daniel is not considered a prophet in Judaism.

    Danel, father of Aqhat, was a culture hero who appears in an incomplete Ugaritic text of the fourteenth century BCE at Ugarit, Syria, where the name is rendered DN'IL, "El is judge".

    The Book of Daniel was created in the 2nd century BC at the time of the Maccabean Revolt.
     
  5. ben d

    ben d Being

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    I like this opinion on prophecy from a Chabad member...."Prophecy is not "the world as G‑d knows it". The world as G‑d knows it is not something the human mind can fathom. G‑d and His knowledge are one, as Maimonides writes. If we could know the way He knows, we would be Him. It is a kind of knowledge that defies definition and clarity, just as G‑d Himself. Rather, a prophecy is the state of matters in a higher realm, before it has reached our earthly plane. There, it is amorphous, not fully defined and can materialize in more than one way."

    Is the Book of Daniel authentic?
     
  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    As to who told you that.

    Notice ( Blessed is he), this means anyone and everyone who reads Revelation.

    Maybe you should read
    Revelation 1:3--"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand"

    Therefore those that read the book of Revelation God will bless them.
    And help them to understand those things which are written therein the book of Revelation.

    Whoever told you such things, they need to read Revelation 1:3.
     
  7. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    ben d,
    I can explain the 17th chapter to you, if you will listen and research the information I give you. Remember, the Bible does not make mistakes, every thing it says fits with everything that is said in all parts of the Bible.
    To understand what the things in Revelation 17 means you must start at the first of the chapter. Verse 2 mentions a great Harlot, which commits fornication with the Kings of the earth. Think, what would be called a Harlot by God? She is The World impire of false religion. The Kings of the earth are the top ranking leaders of the nations of the earth. This mixing religion with politics is called Clericalism today, and is something God hates, that is why He called this involvement of religion and politics, as fornication, illegal dealings. Notice verse three where the Scripture mentions this seven headed beast, as a Scarlet Colored Beast, which is an Image of the Beast mention at Revelation 13:1-10. This Beast is given power and authority by the Dragon, which is Satan, so it cannot be something Go approves of. Another thing, it makes War with the Saints, who are a Special group of God’s Anointed people.
    Remember this first Beast is Seventh head of this seven headed Wild Beast, made up of Britain and The United States, a two horned seventh head.
    Starting in Revelation 13:11 we see a new beast, which is really the Seventh head of this Beast, but in a new role.
    Notice verse 11, which says that the beast looks like a lamb, but starts to speak like a dragon. This represents the United States, which became the dominant head of the seven headed Wild Beast. The United States intriduced the Marshal Plan to help all the parcipitants of WW2 get back on their feet again. They seemed to worship this Beast, Verse 12,13. The Untied States seemed great, but in a short while it started to act and speak like a dragon.
    Consider that this Beast, the seventh head was given authority to make an Image of the first Beast, Britain and The USA. This is the Scarlet Colored Beast mentioned in Revelation 17. Notice what this Beast is going to do very shortly, mentioned at Revelation 13:13-18. Notice, in verse 18 this Beast has a number, 666. In the Bible 6 is a number used as imperfection, a man’s number. The three 6’s means that this Beast is extremely wicked. Triple of anything is the strongest wording in the Holy Scriptures.
    Now, here is something that few people understand, this Beast represents the United Nations, which will be The Eighth King. This is explained at Revelation 17:8. This Beast WAS, and is NOT, and is about to come up out of the Abyss, and go to perdition, which means destroyed forever.
    This Scarlet Colored Beast WAS, the The League of Nations, Ratified in 1920, then WAS NOT, in 1939, when WW2 started, then came out of the Abyss in 1945, as the United Nations, which had the same ideals as the old League of Nations.
    Consider how the Bible tells us about the Ten Kings who have not had a Kingdom of their own, but will rule for with the Scarlet Colored Beast, the United Nations, for one hour, meaning a very short time.
    Look back to verses 17:3-6, which is a description of Babylon the Great, dressed in the finest clothing, just like many religious leaders. She is the mother of harlots. Being that Babylon the Great is the World Empire of false religion, these Harlots are all the false religions of the world, who are committing immoral relations with all the Kings of the earth in their individual nations. That is why they are called Harlots. To show positively who Babylon the Great is, consider verses 17:6, killing God’s Saints, and the Martyrs of Jesus.
    Chapter Revelation 18 tells about the destruction of Babylon the Great. Here we are told many of the things she has done.
    One main thing is mentioned at Revelation 18:24: which says that Babylon the Great is responsible for all the blood of slain ones, on the earth.
    Now, think, Babylon the Great started to ride on the Beast when their was just one Head, Egypt, the Assyria, then Babylon, then the Medes and Persians, Greece, Rome, then The Anglo-American world power. The Eighth King, The United Nation, will be the last power by men. For after The united Nations fights against false religion to try to cause peace, the United Nations will go against Jesus, God’s King, and then all power of mankind will be destroyed by Jesus, Revelation 17:11-18. Agape!!!
     
  8. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    Ben d,
    To me that sounds a little ridiculous because Prophecies were made for men to understand. Some could be understood at the time of their being told, others could be understood after they started to be fulfilled, others only at the end of the Prophecy.
    The Bible says that we do not have the mind of God, Jehovah, but we do have Jesus mind, which is all we need for Salvation, 1Corinthians 2:16, 1Corinthians 2:6-10. We must pray to God for understanding of His words, and we must be bumble and sincere!
    Agape!!!
     
  9. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    Wandering Monk,
    Many things seem incoherent, if we know little about the subject. The more we know the more we understand the simpler anything seems.
    Remember, there are only Three Learned Professions, Law, Medical, Theology. Law seems very complicated to me, Medical Profession two, but I have studied Theology for almost 60 years, and today, many of the things I did not understand are simple to me. I now understand that the entire Bible is Univocal, it tells one story, and the story it tells is very logical, makes sense if you sincerely love God, and desire to understand His words, Proverbs 2:1-10. Just make sure you do not act in the way recorded at Proverbs 1:20-33. We must pray for deep understanding of God’s words, 1Corinthians 2:10, and we must try to get away from thinking like a fleshly man and try to thing like a spiritual man, 1 Corinthians 2:6-16. Agape!!!
     
  10. ben d

    ben d Being

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    Thank you12tartar, that is pretty much the way I was seeing it too. but after reading and considering the posts of OtherSheep on this subject, I will keep an open mind. It does seem to me reasonable that the entities behind the socialistic NWO/One World Government, the entities to whom most countries in the world have pawned their national assets at national, state, and local government levels, and whose present debts and repayment obligations will be inherited by generations not yet born, should play a significant part in the prophecy.
     
  11. ben d

    ben d Being

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    So what is your considered opinion, is the Jewish tradition of excluding Daniel from the official Prophecy list the final word wrt the Book of Daniel being prophetic or not?
     
    #131 ben d, Jul 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  12. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    Ben d,
    I believe that no one can understand the Bible unless they believe what God says in His book. The Almighty God promises to keep His words pure, and to protect His words from every generation, Psalms 12,6,7. Isaiah writes that God’s word stands forever, Isaiah 40:8. Think about what that means. If the words are changed from what God had written, they would not be God’s words any longer. Especially consider what Proverbs 30:5,6 says, God’s words are tried, purified, and that nothing should be added to His words or that person will be proved a lier. The Bible says that God hates liars and that all liars will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, The Second Death, Revelation 21:8. Another Scripture that is very important to remember is 2Peter 3:16,17. Here God has had written that it does not make any difference whether done in ignorance or purposely the punishment is destruction. So it seems, no one has the authority to change God’s words. Of course we do not have the exact words that God spoke today, but Bible Scholars, Who have put many years into study of the old languages, and now understand how to accurately translate the words. Almost every Bible says the same things, some just use different words.
    I use around fifty different Bibles, and I compare them many times, not because some are inaccurate, but because some word the thought in a way that is easier to understand God’s message that He wants every person to receive. Even if some Bible says things wrong, that does not mean that God is not watching over His words, because for anyone who really wants to understand God’s word, almost all are accurate, so God does make sure that the truth of His word is always there, John 17:17. Agape!!!
     
  13. ben d

    ben d Being

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    The truth is forever om the other side of the words. Remember words are like sign posts, they point to reality but in themselves are not reality. God's Word became flesh meaning the Messiah. The Messiah in scripture is still a word, the reality of what the word Messiah or Christ represents is something that aspirants must realize in themselves. This is the path....when the lover meets the beloved, a divine wedding takes place, a union, words are no longer needed.

    Deuteronomy 6:4-5 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

    Matthew 22:36-40
    “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
     
    #133 ben d, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  14. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    Ben d,
    I’m not the brightest bulb in the room, please explain what you are saying. I can understand the Bible much easier than your posts.
     
  15. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    OtherSheep,
    I hope I am wrong, but it seems that you do not really want to understand God’s word, but just want to put forth some objection to everything. Please, at least consider a few Scriptures that can clear up who the Little Horn is.
    Please turn to Daniel 6:27,28. These Scriptures show that Daniel lived most of his life in Babylon. Daniel was taken to Babylon in the year 6:17. Then Daniel 7:1 had a dream about the coming ruling powers. These are told in both the 7th and 8th Chapters of Daniel. Keep in mind that Babylon was the Third Beas on the Seven headed Wild Beast of Chapter 13 and Chapter 17 of Revelation.
    The two heads that came before Babylon, was Egypt, then Assyria. This is the reason that Daniel counts the Kingdoms as starting with Babylon. Verse mentions four great beasts come up from the sea. Sea, here is speaking about people who are always in turmoil, Isaiah 57:20. Remember also the Satan the Dragon is the one giving all these Kingdoms, beasts, their power and authority, Revelation 13:2. Notice Daniel 7:3,4, is speaking about Babylon, then verse speaks about The Medes and Persians, Verse 6 is Greece, then Verse 7 speaks about a fourth beast, which is Rome. Then we have Verse speaking about another Horn, a Little one. This Little Horn has its beginning with Britain. Notice that Britain plucks up three hours by the roots. These other Horns were France, Spain and the Netherlands. Each of these powers fought for dominance, with Britain winning. Notice that this Little horn has a mouth speaking Great things. This brings us to the Little horn, which starts to grow and in time becomes Britain, which it was said about, that the Sun never set on the British Empire. Remember, this is the seventh head of the Seven Headed Wild Beast. In this chapter this is the time that Jesus is brought in before Jehovah God, The Almighty, and told that all the Kingdoms of the earth would be given to Jesus, verses 13,14. Notice what comes before Jesus is made King of God’s Kingdom. Notice verse 11,12, where it tells a little more about what will happen to it, which was, after WW2, the United States became the dominant part of the Seventh Head, and this horn is destroyed, meaning Britain and The United States. These Scriptures do not mean that we will be bombed to smithereens, but that, in some way we will lose our Dominant position in the world. Verses 19,20 tell more about Rome and the seventh head, the United States and Britain, The Anglo-American World Power
    Even more clear, is Chapter 8 of Daniel. Remember Babylon is here the First, because Daniel lived in Babylon. Verse 2-4 pictures The Medes and Persians, a two-horned Power, Cyrus the Persian was the greater horn, and Darius the Mede, was the other horn.
    Then verse 5 is Greece, starting with Alexander the Great, The He-Goat. Alexander conquers the Medes and Persians. Consider verse 8, talking about Alexander the Great, as soon as he had conquered the world, he was broken, Alexander died of Malaria, being weakened by an injury in battle.
    Here is where we see more of the Little Horn, the Seventh head, which has gotten exceedingly great, remember it was said that the sun never set on the British Empire. This is where the Seventh head comes up against God’s people, which it did during WW2, attacking some of God’s Saints, putting some in jail, and causing persecution in Athens United States. The Scriptures then goes over some of the things already mentioned, but in a different way. Here an Angel comes to explain what the meaning of the things he saw, Daniel 8:15-22. Verse 22 tells about Alexander again. After Alexander’s death, his Four Generals caught for dominance. In time one became the most dominant, and became the Small Horn, then grows to become The Seventh Head of the SevenHeaded Wild Beast.
    At verse 23 we are told of a King that would stand up, this King will be The United Nations, which fights against false religion, but then comes up against The Prince of Princes, Jesus, and He will be destroyed, then the Kingdom will be given over to the Saints, Daniel 7:18. Jesus then sets up the Paradise we have hoped for, Revelation 21:1-5. Agape!!!
     
  16. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    Other Sheep,
    This Eighth King will be The United Nations, when the Ten Kings that that did not have a Kingdom until then. The Eighth King gets his power differently than the other Heads of the SevenHeaded Wild Beast, his power is given to Him, by the Ten Kings, he does not fight and conquer the Head before him, Revelation 17:7-14.
    The United Nations will attack and destroy false religion, but then they will attack God’s people. This will bring about their destruction. Then will come the Paradise earth, in which billions of resurrected ones will enjoy a Paradise Earth for all eternity, along with the ones who live through the Great Tribulation, Revelation 7:14, John 5:28,29, Revelation 21:1-5.
     
  17. ben d

    ben d Being

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    Even if someone's understanding of the bible was correct, it does not mean that that their soul will be saved, for their worthiness is not judged on bible knowledge, but on giving their life over to the law mentioned in my post, do you really love your neighbor as much as yourself. Jesus mentioned it in his day, the Rabbis knew the scripture, but failed to put it into practice in their own lives. That's what I meant by"reality is on the other side of the words"!
     
  18. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    Dear Reader, the word clues are all there. Jesus quotes Daniel very specifically, about a matter which I'm fairly certain the Ugarit Tablet didn't mention. The Jews may want to think that the abomination which causes great tribulation are all over; but they and you are greatly mistaken.

    Matthew.
    24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    Revelation.
    2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
    16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

    The abomination which causes desolation brings down the great tribulation of the wrath of God... and death rides the pale horse followed by sheol. Being killed with death means being killed in the time of the pale horse, followed by sheol.

    The abomination is chosen, just as the mark is chosen. The remnant give glory to God.
     
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  19. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    The maker of the United Nations is the little horn that receives a death blow and survived, and the 3 that stood sponsor. Smoke and Mirrors: because some members of the United Nations don't even pretend to go by its laws: it unifies and subverts the weaker nations by a peace to end all peace. It enters other nations which used to be sovereign, and takes the natural resources by force. Don't make the mistake of thinking that these governments represent the desires of the nationalists... they are wholly treasonous.
     
  20. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    The same symbolism appears around the heads of the mother and child, the heart of Jesus, catholic saints, etc. In the more crude cultures, the sun fell to Prometheus who stole fire from the Gods... became fire itself in Persia. Superstition. The chariots of the sun, the west as the land of Hades, etc., are all worship of the skies. These things begin to change when mankind grows up. Not all of mankind is, even yet. If I were to choose a symbol over the substance of right-living, I would wear the maritime anchor.

    10:5 [These are the descendants of Japheth], and from them branched out the maritime nations, in their respective lands--each with its own tongue--by their clans within the nations."--E.A.Speiser, Genesis, The Anchor Bible
     
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