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The Left Is Re-Thinking Bill Clinton

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Revoltingest, Nov 18, 2017.

  1. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    This is something I never expected, even with the recent firestorm which Harvey Weinstein ignited.
    From the NYT.....
    Opinion | What if Ken Starr Was Right?
    Unlike some other reconsiderations I've read, this is the first to acknowledge the accusations that Bill is a rapist.

    So.....what do people think should be done with Bill?
    I expect it to only be a PR problem for Bill.
    But for Hillary, her complicity is would be the final nail in the coffin which is her political career.

    Btw, if anyone runs into a paywall, I can quote portions of interest.
     
  2. idav

    idav Being
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    But what about Melanias compicity LOL??!!
     
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  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    It appears that there is a new paradigm in DC. There is little doubt that Clinton abused women, but even the Democrats can't get away with that any longer. Both sides used to be guilty of treating women as second class citizens. That may become a thing of the past. Weinstein and now Moore both have made it clear to the rest of us that abusing women will not be accepted any longer. The only thing that irritates me a bit right now is the over reaction that we may see. Take Franken as an example. I heard two news reports in my car today that he supposedly groped Tweeden, when even she did not make that claim. The idiot acted like he was groping her, but it does not take too much investigation to see that he was just acting. Stupid and inexcusable, but overstating the wrong doing is as almost as bad as if he actually did the deed.

    I don't want women molested, but I do not want false charges brought up either. This is a bit of a tightrope that we are walking right now.
     
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  4. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    EIsenhower had a mistress as did JFK. George H. W. Bush was accused of harassment. The abuse of women, by politicians and by men in general, goes back a long, long time. As @Subduction Zone pointed out, this is roiling the environment.

    But to extend the attack to Hillary is to me (expletive) up. Women in general who face this make a terribly hard choice and we should respect the choice they make not attack them for it. This is called Hillary Derangement Syndrome for a good reason - the right is obsessed with her ignoring that she did what millions of women do in such situations and I'm not about to judge her or all the other women one way or the other.

    But the right currently ignores the abuser in chief in the White House and leaps to the defense of an abuser and bigot running for the Senate. And we just saw yet another resignation by a so-called Christian conservative who was caught expletive a guy.

    When is the right going to stop excusing much worse behavior than the left admits happened? I hear crickets.

    Heck. if you're as old as I am you might remember Wilbur Mills and Fanny Foxe in the infamous tidal basin incident. So this has been building for quite some time.
     
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  5. Kuzcotopia

    Kuzcotopia If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.

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    The article uses the term "sexual misconduct," implying that there was pressurr and Hillary Clinton's "complicity" is not mentioned. Not sure where your conclusions stem from exactly, based on what was read.

    In any case, the great thing about a progressive outlook is the ability to revisit behavior from 20 years ago. . . by today's standards, he would be not only inpeached, but potentially jailed for sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice.

    It is a shame that standard did not exist then. At the time, I remember believing that his relationship with Lewinsky was fully consensual, and he should have never been asked personal questions that put him in a position to obstruct justice. The writer of this article seems to suggest the same outlook as mine at the time.

    I was wrong about this. Plain and simple. But I continue to grow and learn, and our complex social dynamics continue to grow. . . as to what should be done about Clinton personally . . . I don't know. He was impeached and went through a legal process. Not sure how it could be visited again legally . . . but in these more morally conscious days, it's worth a look.

    I avoided the "whataboutism" bait. . . do I get the Gold Star?
     
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  6. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Bill Clinton was horrible and should be condemned.

    BUT as my Mum always said, "Two wrongs don't make a right" - so I condemn Clinton and Franken, will you on the right now condemn Trump, Moore and the likes?

    How is it the religious right overlook sexual misdemeanors on the right but get all righteous about any on the left.
     
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  7. idav

    idav Being
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    Of course because Trump can't lose any numbers, his whataboutism ignoring Moore is ghastly.
     
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  8. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    It's highly amusing how suddenly some people who voted to elect Donald Trump get morals whenever a Clinton is mentioned.
     
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  9. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    1t is perhaps time we stop expecting the past to have the same moral and sexual standards as we apply today.
    They did not, we know they did not, and it will change nothing to witch hunt them.
    Do we expect to be put on trial in the future for the standards we apply to day... how can we possibly know what they will be.
     
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  10. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    Bill Clinton was one of my least favorite Presidents before Trump. I believed he should have been thrown out of office. I believe Hillary was complicit and it was held against her in the election. I am glad to see others coming around.
     
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  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Is this an example of "whataboutism"?
    Or is it "Hey, look over there!"?
     
  12. idav

    idav Being
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    Well you know, I'm really about protecting poor Billy boy that kinda thing can really harm a persons past presidency.
     
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  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    At least during my lifetime, rape has never been acceptable.
    Bill Clinton's crimes are far worse than Al Franken's boorish comedic sexual aggression.
    The latter could plausibly claim "past standards", but not the Bill Clintons or Roy Moores.


    You've got me defending Al Franken of all people!
    Dang you....I'll never live this down.

    Edit:
    Moore is one pol who could be...should be prevented from serving in office.
    Anti-gay supporters rally for Moore, worrying LGBT community
    If elected, I hope they expel him from office.
    They can do that.
     
    #13 Revoltingest, Nov 19, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Yes...let's distract from the idea that there's a sea change in public perception (on both sides of
    the aisle) regarding sexual aggression & assault. Let's deflect it with snide partisan "whataboutism".
    I see a positive change that many prominent Pubs want Moore out of the race, & that Dems are
    re-examining their former blind eye towards Bill.
    Note that the article's author is a regular NYT contributor, & hardly a Trump supporter according to
    his many articles. (I'll bet your left one he voted against The Donald.) This is significant & positive.


    I really wanna thank @idav for his thread!
    That term is becoming quite useful.
     
    #14 Revoltingest, Nov 19, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  15. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    We should note that women aren't the only ones subject to abuse by elites who
    think themselves above social norms. Kevin Spacey preyed on men & boys.
    (I have a niece who worked on the set of House Of Cards....she was safe, but
    saw that men weren't.)
    The powerful will go after anyone.....woman, man, boy, girl.
    Let's hope this new climate makes that far far less of a risk to the vulnerable.
     
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  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    I agree with you that they all behaved horribly (to varying degrees, of course).
    But the calls for Franken to resign...I just can't go along with those (based
    upon what has come out so far).
     
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  17. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Don't go away mad...
     
  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Hillary's involvement in covering up Bill's misdeeds have been extensively covered elsewhere,
    but are relevant to the article, & to the increasing bi-partisan public scrutiny of sexual predation.
    True dat.
    I know it's a dangerous mistake, but I'm getting my hopes up.....
    Perhaps this is a permanent positive development.
    Perhaps the powerful will rein in their worst instincts, & the
    preyed upon will feel free to fight back, & expose them.
    [​IMG]
    Dang that's a big star!
    But I picked it cuz of it's classy 3D effect.
     
  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Anything to contribute to the OP's theme of re-examination & making progress?
     
  20. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Yeah, maybe the OP would have much, much better reflected those themes if it had not focused so much on Bill Clinton, and instead had more broadly and inclusively focused on the actual issues -- harassment, molestation, etc.-- from any side. But it seems the OP just couldn't resist a bit of conservative Clinton bashing. (Not that I myself like the guy, or his wife. They're both corporate Dems and unsavory ones at that). Amazing how moral some Trump voters get when the Clintons are the topic.
     
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