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Featured THE LAWS OF GOD

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Israel12, May 5, 2020.

  1. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    For a believer saved by and living under the grace of Jesus Christ there is no reason to keep OT laws, though the apostles stated believers should...
    ...abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.
    (Acts 15:20; 29)

    Jesus is the end of the law for all who believe and who live instead by the Spirit of life in Christ.
    (Romans 8:2; Romans 10:4)

    For unsaved Jews or non-Jews apart from Christ, all the laws are still a requirement.
     
  2. izzy88

    izzy88 Active Member

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    I'm relatively new to my religious belief and this isn't something I've done much research on (comparing the beliefs of Jews vs. Christians), but as I understand it Christians aren't really bound to keep laws like Jews. We're simply supposed to try our best not to sin, and what constitutes sin is generally based on the Ten Commandments. That's about as close to keeping laws as we get.

    Edit:
    "Based on" really isn't the right way to put it. The Ten Commandments don't dictate what constitutes sin, they describe it. Sin is anything that goes against God, and the Ten Commandments are the main categories of actions which go against God.
     
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  3. Israel12

    Israel12 Member

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    So people apart from Christ are required to stand up before the hoary head (Leviticus 19:32), or not crossdress (Deuteronomy 22:5). But if they are me in Christ that doesn't apply to them so they can crossdress and refuse to rise up before the hoary head? Lol
     
  4. Israel12

    Israel12 Member

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    Sin is breaking God's LAWS, so if you are to stay away from sin then you are to keep God's LAWS, so that doesn't work.
     
  5. izzy88

    izzy88 Active Member

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    What doesn't work?
     
  6. Israel12

    Israel12 Member

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    You said the 10 Commandments don't dictate what is sin but sin literally is the breaking of God's laws (1 John 3:4) so if you break the 10 or any other statute or law then that is constituted as sin
     
  7. izzy88

    izzy88 Active Member

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    The Ten Commandments are a description of things that are sinful. Things are not sinful because they are on the list; they are on the list because they are sinful.
     
  8. Israel12

    Israel12 Member

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    And I'm not saying they are sinful because they are on the list. I'm saying what the Bible is saying that if you break the 10 or the 600 plus that is sin According to scripture

    1 John 3:4
    [4]Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
     
  9. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    One of the 7 laws is that non-Jews establish courts of law/justice in their societies. So in terms of respect for parents and how to dress that is derived from both the 1st, 2nd, and 7th of the 7 Noachide laws. Concerning eating blood, there is only a law against eating limbs from a living animal. A ben noach has no requirement about consuming blood.
     
  10. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Greetings. Just to point out something, the problem is with the English translation you are using. In Hebrew it states:

    על-כן אמרתי לבני ישראל, כל-נפש מכם לא-תאכל דם; והגר הגר בתוככם, לא-יאכל דם. ואיש איש מבני ישראל, ומן-הגר הגר בתוכם, אשר יצוד ציד חיה או-עוף, אשר יאכל--ושפך, את-דמו, וכסהו, בעפר
    The commandment that is being given in this part of the Torah was to the Jews and Converts to the Torah who were at Mount Sinai when the Torah was given. (Marked above in bold/blue/underline)

    The statement in red and underline (הגר הגר בתוכם) "strangers that sojourn among you" being spoken of is a convert to the Torah who accepted the Torah and has agreed to live among Israelis/Jews and keep the Torah as a Jew. It is not talking about a non-Jew who does not live among Jews and taken on the Torah (גר) or even a Noachide, Hebrew described as (נוכרי) Nochri.
     
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  11. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    613 commands from the Torah are for the entire nation of Israel. Not individual Jews. Many of the 613 commands deal with the management of the Temple. At most, most individual Jews are only responsible for about 10 to 20 depending on what their background and whether they are in certain leadership positions. There are also a number of commands that are only appicable based on situations where they are needed to be performed. Jews who keep Torah study Torah saily pretty thuroughly in Hebrew and Aramaic the sources and applications for commands in the Torah, even ones not applicable to each of us, so we know exactly where get to get information about what is applicable, when, and how.
     
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  12. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    In the Bible, God's laws change over time. Not that I believe the book but that is what I deduced from studying it.

    Are you a Hebrew Israelite by any chance?
     
  13. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    what one believes is not necessarily what works. love does no intentional harm


    the Law of ONE, or the golden rule, doesn't advocate telling someone else what to do with their choices, dreams, desires. it advocates controlling self and correct behavior in relationship to others. if then, other as self attempts to control someone, that entity doesn't practice the golden rule.


    so what someone believes about another is irrelevant. what someone does in regards to other as self and self is relevant.


    there are two service in this great universe. service to all as self; which is selflessness. service to self; which is selflessness.
    if you have ever seen the star wars movies, you have seen these ideas played out in the saga.
     
  14. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    Actually in Jewish thought it's mostly a case of 'Don't do it because G-d said so.' There are two categories of Beni Noach, Noahides, one of which is The Pious Among Nations and the second is The Wise Among Nations. The first is preferable because these take on the Commandments because G-d said so and not necessarily because they make sense. There are many Torah laws that we can't say stop things that are particularly obviously sinful, such as wearing mixed fabrics or eating goat but not horse.

    Rambam on this,

    Anyone who accepts upon himself and carefully observes the Seven Commandments is of the Righteous of the Nations of the World and has a portion in the World to Come. This is as long as he accepts and performs them because (he truly believes that) it was the Holy One, Blessed Be He, Who commanded them in the Torah, and that it was through Moses our Teacher we were informed that the Sons of Noah had already been commanded to observe them. But if he observes them because he convinced himself, then he is not considered a Resident Convert and is not of the Righteous of the Nations of the World, but merely one of their wise.
     
    #54 Rival, May 6, 2020
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
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  15. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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    I was wondering the same thing...:sweatsmile:
     
    #55 Harel13, May 6, 2020
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
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  16. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    Your English not good this day.
     
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  17. Israel12

    Israel12 Member

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    Leviticus 19:17-18 says to rebuke your neighbor so in the golden rule of do to others what you would want... That is relevant. I would want someone to rebuke me so therefore I can rebuke them. Hence tell people not to be homosexual or many other things. This is why you can not be so vague because people can go outside the scriptures and make up things. For example, I can say I give flowers to everybody everyday because that's what I would want. So if you don't give me flowers as well then you would be in sin according to that logic
     
  18. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

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    As gentiles Law is written to our hearts in the form of our conscience and moral code, with Christ teaching in NT as guidance. Law is in an older covenant for gentile while faith (including Christ's commands) is in the New Covenant.
     
  19. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    to covet your neighbor's free will is much worse than you currently imagine. unless your neighbor is forcing their self upon another without consent, it isn't self's business. scripture that advocates trying to control another without defenses or consent is warped.


    there is only ONE thing that covers sin and it is told to you in proverbs 10:12.


    deuteronomy 6:4
     
    #59 Fool, May 6, 2020
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  20. Israel12

    Israel12 Member

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    And love is to keep the Commandments

    2 John 1:6
    [6]And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

    And the Commandment from the beginning told me to REBUKE my neighbor and not allow him to break God's laws

    Leviticus 19:17
    [17]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

    You are making up stuff that doesn't harmonize with scripture.
     
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