The Law of Cause and Effect: True / False / Maybe

[dybmh]

From what I can tell, the Law of Cause and Effect is universal in all belief and non-belief systems in the entire world. The only exclusion is a strict nihilist. Even Satanic Devil worshipers and Atheists believe in cause and effect don't they?

Question: Is Cause and Effect universally True?

( I grouped Atheists and Devil worshipers together because they both encourage the most personal freedom. No offense or equivalency intended in any other way. )

 

[dybmh]

@Aupmanyav ,

If you don't mind, I'd like to hear your opinion on this since Hindu is the most expansive diverse religious group I know of. Because of that, I am very curious about your answer to my question in both the micro and the macro as it relates to Hindu beliefs and their pantheon.

 

[HonestJoe]

Question: Is Cause and Effect universally True?

If Cause and Effect wasn't true, that would have an effect.

I'm not sure what this is meant to have to do with religion or belief though; It's an entirely scientific/philosophical question.

 

[ChristineM]

From what I can tell, the Law of Cause and Effect is universal in all belief and non-belief systems in the entire world. The only exclusion is a strict nihilist. Even Satanic Devil worshipers and Atheists believe in cause and effect don't they?

Question: Is Cause and Effect universally True?

( I grouped Atheists and Devil worshipers together because they both encourage the most personal freedom. No offense or equivalency intended in any other way. )

Cause an effect is only relevant outside the quantum realm. In the sub atomic realm cause does not necessarily come before effect

Also, the laws that make this universe what it is did not begin to coalesc until after the BB, it is unknown what conditions were in force prior to to 10e-43 of a second after the BB

However, in classical mechanics thermodynamics (and hence cause and effect) appears to be universal

I think @Polymath257 can explain much better and more accurately than i can

 

[metis]

Question: Is Cause and Effect universally True?

If we were to know and understand all the causes, I think the answer may be yes. However, ...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

From what I can tell, the Law of Cause and Effect is universal in all belief and non-belief systems in the entire world. The only exclusion is a strict nihilist.

What do you mean by "the Law of Cause and Effect?" I've heard terms like this describe everything from Newton's Third Law to the idea of karma.

Even Satanic Devil worshipers and Atheists believe in cause and effect don't they?

I get the sense that this will devolve into a discussion of semantics, depending what you mean.

 

[RabbiO]

מדה כנגד מדה​

 

[Polymath257]

Actually, the best physical theory we have that of Quantum Mechanics, is NOT a causal theory. it is a probabilistic and statistical theory. The classical ideas of cause and effect simply don't work.

And, to go deeper, what *precisely* do you mean by the term 'cause' and what do you mean by the term 'effect'? I have found it incredibly difficult to give a good definition of either of those that works in the real world.

On the other hand, just like a random coin tossed many times will give close to 50% heads and 50% tails, a probabilistic theory at the quantum level can and does give predictable results on the macroscopic level because of the averaging of the behavior of very large numbers of atoms. THAT is what is usually called 'cause and effect' at the macroscopic level.

 

[Fool]

From what I can tell, the Law of Cause and Effect is universal in all belief and non-belief systems in the entire world. The only exclusion is a strict nihilist. Even Satanic Devil worshipers and Atheists believe in cause and effect don't they?

Question: Is Cause and Effect universally True?

( I grouped Atheists and Devil worshipers together because they both encourage the most personal freedom. No offense or equivalency intended in any other way. )

yes, chaos theory, butterfly effect is going to get you.


cast your bread upon the waters

 

[dybmh]

What do you mean by "the Law of Cause and Effect?" I've heard terms like this describe everything from Newton's Third Law to the idea of karma.

Closer to a generic version of Karma... or maybe the Butterfly effect?

I get the sense that this will devolve into a discussion of semantics, depending what you mean.

Agreed, I wasn't going to debate or argue if people didn't want to answer on that basis.

 

[Samael_Khan]

From what I can tell, the Law of Cause and Effect is universal in all belief and non-belief systems in the entire world. The only exclusion is a strict nihilist. Even Satanic Devil worshipers and Atheists believe in cause and effect don't they?

Question: Is Cause and Effect universally True?

( I grouped Atheists and Devil worshipers together because they both encourage the most personal freedom. No offense or equivalency intended in any other way. )

Well to some groups Atheist and Devil worshipper on the same thing so, I dont take offense, being a heathen myself... All hail me.

Isn't determinism, as promoted by some atheists, all about cause and effect? Some even believe free will to be an illusion.

 

[dybmh]

Actually, the best physical theory we have that of Quantum Mechanics, is NOT a causal theory. it is a probabilistic and statistical theory. The classical ideas of cause and effect simply don't work.

And, to go deeper, what *precisely* do you mean by the term 'cause' and what do you mean by the term 'effect'? I have found it incredibly difficult to give a good definition of either of those that works in the real world.

On the other hand, just like a random coin tossed many times will give close to 50% heads and 50% tails, a probabilistic theory at the quantum level can and does give predictable results on the macroscopic level because of the averaging of the behavior of very large numbers of atoms. THAT is what is usually called 'cause and effect' at the macroscopic level.

I Honestly, I wasn't intending to broach the topic of subatomic behavior. I generally consider that to be effectively a different universe where all the rules change. ( But I'm not current on the subject )

For atheists, It was more of a morality question for those of non-belief. Human do no harm morality depends on cause and effect? What I do might harm someone ( or help someone ) is a version of cause and effect.

Does that help reduce the scope to something more manageable for comparison of beliefs/non-beliefs?

 

[WalterTrull]

Cause and effect are the same thing viewed from different perspectives.

 

[Polymath257]

I Honestly, I wasn't intending to broach the topic of subatomic behavior. I generally consider that to be effectively a different universe where all the rules change. ( But I'm not current on the subject )

It's more true that the large scale causality is due to averages of the randomness at the quantum level. it isn't a different world, but rather an average of all the smaller influences.

For atheists, It was more of a morality question for those of non-belief. Human do no harm morality depends on cause and effect? What I do might harm someone ( or help someone ) is a version of cause and effect.

Yes, the things we do might harm others and we have a moral duty to both understand the possible effects of our actions and to care about how they might affect others. Since our actions are all at the macroscopic level, causality tends to be a good approximation

Does that help reduce the scope to something more manageable for comparison of beliefs/non-beliefs?

I'm not sure. Do I believe our actions have consequences? Yes. Do I think we can always correctly predict those consequences? No. Do I think that the same conseq

 

[dybmh]

Cause and effect are the same thing viewed from different perspectives.

I'm going to let this idea simmer a bit in my squash...

but I may ask for a little more detail later. if you don't mind?

 

[Polymath257]

I Honestly, I wasn't intending to broach the topic of subatomic behavior. I generally consider that to be effectively a different universe where all the rules change. ( But I'm not current on the subject )

It's more true that the large scale causality is due to averages of the randomness at the quantum level. it isn't a different world, but rather an average of all the smaller influences.

For atheists, It was more of a morality question for those of non-belief. Human do no harm morality depends on cause and effect? What I do might harm someone ( or help someone ) is a version of cause and effect.

Yes, the things we do might harm others and we have a moral duty to both understand the possible effects of our actions and to care about how they might affect others. Since our actions are all at the macroscopic level, causality tends to be a good approximation

Does that help reduce the scope to something more manageable for comparison of beliefs/non-beliefs?

I'm not sure. Do I believe our actions have consequences? Yes. Do I think we can always correctly predict those consequences? No. Do I think that the same consequences always follow from the same act? No. Do I think that aspects of a situation that are not under our control can adversely affect others? Yes.

Past that, I'm not seeing what you are getting at.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Closer to a generic version of Karma... or maybe the Butterfly effect

I have no idea what "a generic version of Karma" might be.

The Butterfly Effect is an idea about the sensitivity of non-linear systems to their initial conditions. It's not a "Law of Cause and Effect;" it's a description of certain systems that takes causality as a given.

 

[sun rise]

מדה כנגד מדה

Footage for footage (that's what Google translated that as), Measure for measure, quid pro quo were two others. But I'm guessing "eye for an eye" is what you had in mind.

 

[sun rise]

Question: Is Cause and Effect universally True?

Since the OP mentioned religion, my thoughts are from that frame not from the subatomic realm.

My answer is "sowing and reaping" from the Bible and karma, from the East are the same thing expressed differently.

But I can speculate that it can get complicated.

Suppose someone saves my life in a prior life. Do I save their life this time around? Or maybe I repay that person in another way? If someone murdered me lives ago, do I murder them now or do they save my life this time around to balance the karma?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

From what I can tell, the Law of Cause and Effect is universal in all belief and non-belief systems in the entire world. The only exclusion is a strict nihilist. Even Satanic Devil worshipers and Atheists believe in cause and effect don't they?

Question: Is Cause and Effect universally True?

( I grouped Atheists and Devil worshipers together because they both encourage the most personal freedom. No offense or equivalency intended in any other way. )

I think everything is by cause and affect (everything is a play of dominoes). The only way I can see it not being cause and affect (and make just as much sense) if everything is eternal and there is no separation between dominoes so "no running into" each other. One act/motion/karma. While I understand the former, if I looked more into the religious eastern side of it, more than likely the latter would be more productive application if going by religion more than science.