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The Last Avatar, the Eternal Self

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Sep 15, 2021 at 7:00 AM.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Form(noun)? or forming(verb) which is formless? which is more important


    if energy cannot be created or destroyed but simply transformed, what then is more important? the form it took? or the energy that formed it?


    in the cycle of reincarnation, which is more important? the forms which are temporal? or the recycle process; which is everlasting life?





    13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
     
  2. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    Your question makes no sense to me. Important to what or whom?
     
  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    to one who considers. the materialist says the form of matter is more important but what then of the energy that created it? or the matter that it will be recycled into? or the matter it was before?


    goes to state of mind. what is more important? matter as a fixed thing? or the process that will reprovision matter into something else?


    what is important? the ability to create self once? or the ability to repeatedly recreate self?
     
    #3 Fool, Sep 15, 2021 at 7:26 AM
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021 at 7:54 AM
  4. Greg Levenski

    Greg Levenski Member

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    As per the monist hindus, the energy that transforms into all sorts of temporary forms is more important.
    We hindus, call that energy by various names (Consciousness, Spirit, Self, Brahman) :)
     
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  5. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    It depend who you ask, a materalist or a non materalist would give different answers.
     
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    and because of a closed mind vs open minded.
     
  7. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    that action, that verb, that process is the impermanent self and the last avatar, or the first, basically the only ONE


    the ancient of days
     
  8. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Why?
     
  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    a closed mind has fixed limits, boundaries. won't be moved. an open mind doesn't. like an open heart
     
  10. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    IMHO, energy is important. No energy, no form.
     
  11. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    a form usually has to have a contrast either by the formless energy, or another form? the underlying issue that arises is if it is conscious?
     
  12. Greg Levenski

    Greg Levenski Member

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    I'm not much familiar with the whole of Christianity coz in my youth i was introduced not to the Bible, but to the scriptures and beliefs of Hinduism. Even though i was born in a christian family my parents were not the church going types, instead they were into eastern religions. But as i grew older, i got hold of the Bible and completed reading the Book of Genesis and would like to read the rest of the Bible if my health persists.

    Now, speaking of reincarnation, the Hindus believe that the cycle of reincarnation is continuous. It goes on and on for milleniums after milleniums. Its like a trap. Once we get inside the trap its hard to come out of it. Just like moths are drawn to a light bulb, similarly we are drawn towards wordly pleasures. Things like wine, drugs, sex, money etc. These things are considered evil by Hindus.
    Evil in the sense that these worldly pleasures keep us earthbound (in the cycle of reincarnation).
    As long as we have desires and attachments for our loved ones and for worldly things, we will keep on reincarnating in new flesh bodies.

    But there is a way to break free from this cycle of reincarnation. We do it by attaining Moksha / Nirvana / Liberation.

    So how does one attain liberation?
    Well, when the dualists or pan-en-theists, discards all desires & attachments for wordly things and strives to seek the Personal God like Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, Krishna etc. they attain liberation and spend time in Heaven or Paradise, in the company of Personal God. He then no longer reincarnates in mortal flesh bodies.

    The non-dualists or monists on the other hand, doesn't seek any Personal God like Yahweh or Krishna but they meditate.
    They meditate on that Energy / Universal Consciousness / Universal Spirit / Self / Brahman, because they know they are not the vessels or bodies made of flesh and bones. We are instead Energy or Spirit. So when the monists quit all worldly desires and realize (through meditation) their original Spirit state, they attain liberation and never reincarnate into flesh bodies.
    That is what the dualist and monist Hindus believes in. :)
     
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  13. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    IMHO, it is not conscious. It is sort of mechanical. You do this, that happens.
    They meditate on the question at hand. If that leads to energy/self/Brahman, that is OK. Universal spirit and universal consciousness is for mystics. Not necessary that monists will mystics. I keep at least a mile away from mysticism.
     
    #13 Aupmanyav, Sep 15, 2021 at 10:55 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021 at 7:44 AM
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