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Featured The Kingdom of Heaven is within you

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by PopeADope, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Someone at RF reminded me recently that the Kingdom of Heaven is within

    Luke 17:21
    King James Bible
    Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

    That is a beautiful reality to meditate on, but what does it mean? When I think of a Kingdom I think of a civilization. Surely it doesn't mean we have a bunch of Angels, structures, and departed souls living within us does it?
     
  2. Kirran

    Kirran
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    I think it means that the heaven of being utterly surrendered to God is to be found at the core of ourselves.
     
  3. wizanda

    wizanda Hairy doesn't mean scary;beard doesn't mean weird
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    What it means is that Heaven is called Oneness, and within each of us is a bit of Oneness, which is felt each time we unite as One. :innocent:
     
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  4. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Some would say it means we are divine within our own right. Some would say it means that God has placed a piece of Himself inside of each of us, and that piece is what returns. Others would say that each of us has the propensity to do good - as much good as heaven is supposedly composed of - and that that is how "The Kingdom" is within us.

    In essence, I have always felt that it is much the same message in any case - that we are called to do right by our fellow man, because our fellow man has that same "something" inside him/her that should make us a united front against the things that don't mesh with these ideas of "good". Not that "We are all one", or some other trite, too-oft-paraded idea. But because we are alike in so many ways that we should be able to expect empathy - from ourselves and from others - with a keen eye toward the greater good of all of mankind.
     
  5. wizanda

    wizanda Hairy doesn't mean scary;beard doesn't mean weird
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    John 17:21-23 that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me. (22) The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one; (23) I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you loved me. ;)
     
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  6. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    That's not working out too well so far, it seems to me. But perhaps that is what it means - that the potential resides in each one of us to do our part in 'building' the kingdom of heaven 'on earth (literally) as it (metaphorically) is in heaven'???
     
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  7. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    The bible also says "God is never far off". God created man and gave him the "breath of life" which is understanding. When you pray God can hear you and sometimes communicates with people by dreams and visions. So I believe by "The Kingdom of God is within you" means that our connection with God is internal, through our souls.
     
  8. Carlita

    Carlita Riding the waves!

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    Everlasting Life is within you. When you believe, you are promised to have everlasting life. That Kingdom of Everlasting life is within you through your belief and faith.

    Christianity uses a lot of flowery terms for something quite simple
     
  9. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    Yes, that is a very misunderstood scripture and one that throws people off completely about the reality of the Kingdom.

    So what is the Kingdom? Who can honestly give us a scriptural answer to that question?
    Unless we know what the Kingdom is, we will never understand what Jesus meant by this statement. :confused:
     
  10. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    The Kingdom of God will not exist until Jesus returns to earth to be its king.When a person repents and accepts Jesus as savior then God spirit enters that person. Since it is the kingdom of God and God's spirit in within those people then a part of the kingdom is within those people.
     
  11. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    you take your dreams with you
    the manner of thought and feeling that you are

    if you 'fit in'......the sharing will be pleasant

    if you 'fit' somewhere else.......then not so pleasant
     
  12. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    A kingdom is, as its name suggests, a "king" and a "dom"ain, or realm over which his rulership extends, so yes, the kingdom will rule this earth once Jesus takes up his kingship fully. This is why he taught his disciples to pray for God's Kingdom to "come" so that God's will can be "done on earth as it is in heaven".

    But Christ reigns even now in the hearts of his disciples. He is already their King and they obey his commands.
    They are, as we speak fulfilling Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19-20.

    But when Jesus said that the "kingdom of God is within you", he was speaking to wicked men of whom he said "their hearts are far removed from me". (Matthew 15:7-9) So he was not saying to those Pharisees that the kingdom was within them, but that the ruling monarch of the Kingdom was "in their midst" (alternative rendering) and they failed to recognize him.

    So, the kingdom is not something internal, but the holy spirit is certainly something that can be received by those to whom it is granted. What a wonderful gift! And consoling to know that God's help is only a prayer away. Even those who face death, can do so with peace in their hearts, knowing that Jesus can conquer death as easily as waking someone from a restful sleep. (John 5:28-29; John 11:11-14)

    May the Kingdom come soon.....[​IMG] Can't wait......
     
  13. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    It means you have a soul and that soul is a fragment of God.
     
  14. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    It means that we are not who we think we are. That is to say, we are not our identity as derived via our social indoctrination. That character is just a fictional one, actually, a fraud. Who we really are is the awakened mind, and that is a divine nature. We are, in reality, That, and That can only be found within, and not, as Yeshua said: 'here' or 'there', outside of us.

    Yeshua said:


    "Unless you turn, and become as little children, you shall not enter into Paradise"

    This means to turn away from the false teachings of a hypocritical moral society, and toward the light within, where the divine nature dwells. That divine nature is none other than your true nature. What does it mean to 'become as little children'? It means to see without judging; to see indiscriminately. This kind of seeing is called 'innocency' (no, not innocence, which implies guilt). It is an unconditioned view, not influenced by society. it is what the Buddha referred to as 'Original Mind', clear and uncontaminated by defilements and delusion. Original Mind is pure consciousness which is present before the thinking, discursive mind comes into play. It just sees things as they are, rather than how our beliefs and indoctrination says they are.


     
    #14 godnotgod, Feb 17, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  15. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member
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    Yes I see all as One, we are part of all, and therefore we are One, and because we are all One, heaven is of course within us all, but sadly not many can see or experience this.:(
     
  16. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    Yeshua spoke Aramaic. I subscribe to the original Aramaic text which is the Pe-shi-tta* NT Bible, written before the Greek NT, which has many translational errors in it. So the Aramaic version of this text is:

    hah geyr mal'kuw'theh da'lo'hah l'gaw men'kuwn iy


    "Such thus the kingdom, his of the Alah; to from within you she be."

    Note the inclusion of the feminine element, which is in accordance with Eastern wisdom, where the feminine is the key to the mystical experience. For example:


    “The Valley Spirit never dies
    It is named the Mysterious Female.
    And the doorway of the Mysterious Female
    Is the base from which Heaven and Earth sprang.
    It is there within us all the while.
    Draw upon it as you will, it never runs dry.”


    Tao Te Ching, Chapter VI,
    Translated by Arthur Waley
    ****


    Yeshua was a mystic Jew, belonging to the Nazarenes, a mystical sect of the Essenes, which practiced inner contemplation and breath control of the divine nature within.

    *I could not use the actual word 'Pesh*tta', as part of it is unfortunately censored by RF.



     
  17. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    Or maybe that the One Soul that is God, is manifesting Itself as you and I, and Everything else. The only reason you think you 'have a soul', is because of the ego: 'I, me, mine'.
     
  18. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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  19. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    In context, Yeshua said (in Aramaic):

    Luke 17:20 ¶ AND when Jeshu was questioned from the Pharishee, When cometh the kingdom of Aloha? he answered and said to them, The kingdom of Aloha cometh not with watchings:

    [​IMG][​IMG] 17:21 nor say they, Behold, it is here! and, Behold, it is there! for the kingdom of Aloha is within you.

    Luke 17 - Pe****ta Aramaic New Testament NT John Etheridge 1849 James Murdock 1852 Online Parallel Bible Study

    So the translations of "amongst you",'in your midst", and 'at hand' can be dismissed by Yeshua's conditional statement that the Kingdom is neither 'here' nor 'there', referring to some external location.

    For those really interested in an academic explanation as to why 'inside you' is the correct translation, please see here:


    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.553.4678&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    It is of interest to note the following, as concluded by the author:

    "In sum, no Father at all takes e)nto\j u(mw=n as meaning “among you,” but all ancient exegetes are unanimous in interpreting it as “inside you.” As I have observed, ancient versions and interpretations do not necessarily demonstrate, one by one and per se, that their understanding is right, but they surely demonstrate that it was possible to understand the expression under investigation in the way I propose to translate it, and that it was indeed understood in this way by the Latin translators, by most or all Syriac translators (and, in the former case, precisely those who were more adherent to the Greek), and by virtually all Syriac and Greek ancient exegetes who commented on this passage. They had the same cultural, rhetorical, and linguistic background as the Greek New Testament. Their total agreement can hardly be accidental. And it becomes all the more significant in the light of the grammatical, linguistic, and contextual arguments that I have adduced. Indeed, as I have argued, everything points to the understanding of Luke 17:21 as “The Kingdom of God is inside you:” the ancient Syriac versions of this verse, of Matt 23:26a, and of all the occurrences of e)n me/sw| + genitive in Luke; also, the Latin translations, a systematic investigation of the meaning of e)nto/j in all of Greek literature anterior to, and contemporary with, Luke; Biblical linguistic usage, where e)nto/j always means “inside”; a similar logion in the Gospel of Thomas; and Greek and Syriac Patristic exegesis."
     
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  20. Heim

    Heim Active Member

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    The NIV uses 'in your midst'. The NRSV uses 'among you'.
    One Dutch bible (NBV) opts for 'within your reach'.

    Different meanings. Is this a difficult verse to translate I wonder?
     
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