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Featured The Kingdom Come

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah may, or may not be referring to the Roman Church of Emperor Constantine, which was established in the 4th century, which the head of said church claims to be the shepherd of God's people, but Zechariah 11: 12 to 17, certainly is.
     
  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Gomer was a "wife of harlotry", not an "adulteress", who was "loved by her husband" (Hosea 3:1). The children of Gomer (Hosea 1:3) represented Lo-ruhamah, "for I will no longer have compassion on the house of Israel" (Hosea 1:2-9), and Lo-ammi, "for you are not my people", and "the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel will be gathered together" (Hosea 1:11), which has yet to happen as portrayed in Ezekiel 37:15-25, with having "one leader". "For great will be the day of Jezreel", which the valley of Jezreel, is near Megiddo, as with respect to the valley of judgment (Joel 3:2) and Har-Magedon (Revelation 16:16) Hosea was a prophet, not a historians. And the valley of judgment, and the gathering of Judah and Ephraim follows the coming battle, which did not happen around 70 A.D. as you apparently think. The valley of judgment is for judgment of the nations (Joel 3:2), the kingdoms of Daniel 2:35. Get out your locust spice, and prepare to eat well for 5 months. Just beware of the sting of their tails (Revelation 9:10).
     
  3. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    No he's not. Do you know the meaning of Bashan?
     
  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Well, one Catholic poster tried to palm off Isaiah 22:25 with respect to Peter, but it is with respect to the guy who was to follow Peter (Shebna), Eliakim. The Catholic church would be referred to as the "load", which will be "cut off". Peter is still supposedly buried under an altar in Rome, and his church still stands, a little wobbly, but still on its feet. The reference of Isaiah 22:25 is with regards to Peter's successors, the popes, who are near to falling as we speak.
     
  5. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    HarMeggido.. a mountain is the opposite of a valley.

    When Titus attacked Jerusalem there were soldiers from many nations with the Roman garrison.
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Is this another straw man? Bashan means fertile earth, and was inherited by Manassh after Gog of Bashan was defeated by Israel.
     
  7. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Isaiah died in the 7th century BC.. He wasn't talking about Peter or the Popes.
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Tel-Meggido was not actually a mountain but a tell where a fort was built to protect a trading route, and it over looked a valley in which the battles were fought. The 1918 battle of Megiddo was won when the Ottomans/Germans were crushed under British artillery, while in a valley. And Titus was part of the 6th head of the beast, not the 8th head of the beast, and his kingdom, part of the (Daniel 2:35) kingdoms, was not crushed, it was the Jews who were crushed. If the shoe doesn't fit, you can't convict
     
    #68 2ndpillar, Mar 30, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah was prophesizing about the "Day of the LORD" which includes the "end of the age", the "end time", when the "LORD will go forth and fight" (Zechariah 14:3), and Babylon along with her daughters fall, and Yeshua was just fulfilling that prophecy by appointing Peter as head of the royal household (Isaiah 22:15), and giving him the keys of the house of David, and calling him Petros (Isaiah 22:16). You are confused a little. Isaiah was a prophet, speaking the Word of God, who knows all, from the beginning to the end. For those with ears to hear, they have insight into what happens before it happens, for God explains it all. (Daniel 12:6-10)
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Isaiah was talking about Israel and what was in store for her.

    Isaiah | Biography & Facts

    Who has taught you this wild futuristic stuff? The scripture you quoted isn't about Petros or Peter at all.
     
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 22:16 reads "you who carve a resting place in the rock/petros" refers to Peter, and his church thinking he was the rock the "church" is built on. His church is built on Peter and Paul, but that "house" will fall (Matthew 7:23).

    As for what is in store for Israel, they will face "Jacob's troubles" (Jeremiah 30:7), but will be "chastened" "justly" and "I will not destroy you completely" (Jeremiah 30:11), which has not happened as yet, for at the same time, "I will destroy completely all the nations/Gentiles where I have scattered you". Those kingdoms, Persia, Greece, Rome, Babylon, clay and iron, have not yet been completely "crushed all at the same time" (Daniel 2:35). It is not "futuristic", it is happening as we speak. You will not find understanding of Isaiah in an Encyclopedia.
     
  12. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    They had all been crushed by the time of Daniel... except for Rome. The author of Daniel wasn't around until 165 BC during the Maccabbean revolt over the abuses of Antiochus IV. The Valley of Decision is the Valley of Kidron.

    The Bible is rational..

    The "day of the Lord" by the Assyrio-Babylonia invasions was not a unique or isolated event. The wrath, which started with the Assyrio-Babylonian invasions, continued off and on under the following of world empires, including Mede-Persia, Greece, and Rome. Isaiah thus describes a "day of the Lord" in which God would punish Babylon and the world through the instrument of the Mede-Persian Empire.
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    In the space of one year, five men were Ceasar in Rome (beginning with Nero and ending with Vespasian), and the empire suffered devastation by the competing factions and armies.

    At the same time Titus was besieging Jerusalem, the forces of his father, Vespasian, were besieging Rome and Italy.

    The same year thus saw the destruction of the two greatest temples in the world: The temple in Jerusalem and the temple Jupiter Capitalinus in Rome.

    This is the "day of the Lord" prophesied by Joel and the prophets. Zechariah, who preached during the return of the captivity and the building the second temple and foretold the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome.
     
  14. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    With respect to Daniel 2, Babylon was the head of gold, and the Persian empire was the breast of silver. According to Daniel 2:35, the head of gold, the breast of silver, the thighs of bronze (Greece), the legs of iron (Rome), and the iron and clay, would all be crushed all at the same time. The crushing of Babylon, was just part of Daniel 2, whereas they were all crushed singularly, ending with the crushing of the iron (Rome) and clay (Ottomans) at the battle of Megiddo, in 1918, and 50 years later at the Israeli war, with the crushing of the iron (Russians), and the Muslims, in the Israeli war which was a fulfillment of Zechariah 12. Your Preterist doctrine is behind the times by about 2000 years. By the way, the assumed author of the partial Preterist doctrine was a Roman Catholic Jesuit around the time of Luther, and supposedly used to counter the Reformation. Persia/Iran/Elam, seems to be waiting to be crushed at this time (Jeremiah 49:35).
     
  15. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Again, you leave out the end of the story. The final head of the beast will be iron and clay, and they will "capture" "Jerusalem", and then the LORD will come and fight (Zechariah 14:1-3). The LORD never came to fight Titus, nor did the men of Titus have their flesh rot while they stood on their feet (Zechariah 14:12), nor did Titus loose the battle and have to give their gold to Judah (Zechariah 14:14). Nor were all the kingdoms crushed at the same time and have to worship the king in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16). As for Joel 2:31 & 3:17, and the "awesome day of the LORD", it reads "Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, dwelling in Zion My holy mountain. So Jerusalem will be holy, and strangers will pass through it no more". None of that has happened. It is yet future. You need to clean up your house. You seem to be tripping over your strawmen. Your doctrine seems to have more holes than swiss cheese.
     
    #75 2ndpillar, Mar 31, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Yes. I wrote about the Jesuit priest Ribera all last week.
     
  17. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Well, you and your Jesuit priest, seem to be equally wrong. A colander has fewer holes than the flaws in your reasoning. You never seem to address those flaws, and only keep introducing new strawmen. But as the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31), when the "son of man will appear in the sky"...and his angels will gather together his elect from the four winds"... "immediately after the tribulation of those days"... when "the sun will be darkened (Matthew 24:29-31) & (Joel 2:31)"... "before the awesome day of the LORD comes". None of that has happened. The elect were not gathered, which by the way follows the tribulation and the gathering up of the tares (Matthew 13:30), and "Word of God" does not rule the nations (Revelation 19:13-15) with a rod of iron, and the nations do not worship the king in Jerusalem every year (Zechariah 14:16).
     
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