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The Joker was an Anti-Marxist Hero: The Dark Knight has an Anti-Marxist Parable

Discussion in 'Movies' started by The Reverend Bob, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    In the Dark Knight, Gotham is in deep trouble. It is all in all the very description of a kleptocracy where a capitalist kleptocracy rules the day, they control the banks, the means of production and the edifice of law and order itself (the courts and the police). In the midst of this crisis emerges an triumvirate that is analogous to the heroes of the Marxists ideological myth. Harvey Dent is an idealist, he represents the figure of Marx himself, Commissioner Gordon is a true believer in the ideas that Dent represents, he is the enforcer and chief protector of Dent's (Marxist) idealism, he is the very figure Vladimir Lenin in this mythological cycle and now we come to the Batman himself, who is this mysterious figure that lurks in the dark? He primarily identifies as a protector of the people of Gotham against the criminal (capitalist) class, it is obvious that in this narrative that the Batman represents Trotsky! Trotsky was known in the Marxist myth to be the protector of the proletariat who wishes to see the proletariat emancipate itself from capitalism much like Batman longs to see the people of Gotham emancipate themselves from the criminal class that rules over them. He wishes to inspire not rule.

    Should I go on?
     
    #1 The Reverend Bob, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  2. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Yes I am an anti-marxist thank you very much
     
  3. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    I prefer comics Joker to the movies.
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    So do I.
    main-qimg-8f3d8c0265cef2e0645ae6d8477478e3.jpeg
     
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  5. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
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    interesting. You could expand on the Harvey Dent part of the analogy and say that the Two-Face character he becomes represents the ideology of Marxism vs the reality of Communism.
     
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  6. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
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    Please do. :thumbsup:
     
  7. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Yes, Two-Face represents the eventual corruption and failure of Marxist ideology
     
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  8. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
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    As an aside, I think that all of the recent DC movies represent a desperate attempt to compete with Marvel.
     
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  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    No. Dent was a law and order man fighting to free gotham from a ruling class of criminals, not a ruling class. The Joker is anti-order. The Joker showed the failing of our beliefs that order and structure will always prevail. I would say its much darker and depper than merely being anti any single ideology (except for being opposed to the criminal/vigilante Batman).
     
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  10. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    I agree. As a DC fan at heart, the live action DCU hurts me.
     
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  11. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    While some of what you are saying is true, there is something specific and meaningful that the Joker personally offered to each of the three main characters and all three rejected it and it just wasn't that "I am chaos and everything is a joke". The true message of the film comes from the action of Dent, Gordon and the Batman not necessarily the Joker
     
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  12. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    The Joker is Chaos for Chaos's sake.

    An example.

    If a majority of the civilians were criminals, and Batman was a villain that supported/controlled those criminals. The Joker would become a hero/vigilante.


    Why so serious?!?
     
  13. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    At the start of the film, we see that we are in the midst of a revolution that is on its way to being successful! The dirty criminal class that have the police and courts in their pockets are on the run, the very forces of law and order are now starting to side with the people of Gotham and the criminal who once oppressed the masses are being exposed and are on the run. Surely paradise is ahead for the people where they can cast of the fetters of criminal capitalism and finally be free from oppression! The Worker's Paradise is just ahead if they only have faith in the idealism of Dent, Gordon and the Batman. Surely nothing can go wrong, now can it?

    "The night is darkest before the dawn. And I promise you, the dawn is coming." - Harvey Dent
     
    #13 The Reverend Bob, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  14. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Wait. A Marvel/DC Cross-over? I thought Joker was DC, and Red Skull was Marvel, a traditional enemy of Captain America. No?
     
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  15. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    One time crossovers are apparently a thing going back to the 60s.
    I remember passing by a comic shop and doing a double take at a comic where Batman met Wolverine once.
    And a friend of mine has one where Spider-Man meets Superman/boy. Blew my mind.
    I kind of hope there’s one where the Justice League meets the Fantastic Four. I think the Teen Titans encountered the Fantastic Four once. Not sure.
     
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  16. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Or when Archie met the Punisher

    Punisher Meets Archie Vol 1 1
     
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  17. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Love the by-line on the cover: "when worlds collide"

    Indeed-- you cannot get much farther apart than Archie and The Punisher...
     
  18. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
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    Crossovers are an important genre. They answer some of the more relevant questions of our childhood, like: who would win in a fight, The Hulk or Superman.
    Unfortunately, they usually answer incorrectly.
     
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  19. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
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  20. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    o_O
    And I thought Batman vs Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was weird.
     
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