The Jesus Myth

[fallingblood]

After watching The God Who Wasn't There by Brian Flemming, I decided to write a book on the Jesus Myth. I've written papers for and against the subject in the past (as I've been on both sides of the issue), but decided to write a more in depth discussion on the subject, taking the position that a historical Jesus did in fact exist, but was not as the Bible portrays him.

As I would like this to be all inclusive, with me not leaving out anything that may be considered important, I would just like to get everyone's arguments for and against.

So basically, is the Jesus Myth true?

 

[Storm]

I think so, though certainly embellished.

 

[Riverwolf]

Based on what little I know, I can say with fairly good certainty that the basic gospel story didn't literally happen. However, there's not much reason to think there wasn't a controversial teacher, or several teachers, in that area at the time who was put to death for teaching things that someone in power didn't like.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I think if there was a jesus, he was more of a classical rabbi than anything else. Based on the similarity to other,older god men myths attributed him in the bible, it seems likely these were embellishments.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

How would we know?

 

[Jesus Smasher]

The first historian to document a "christ" was Josephus and he was born in 37 AD, four years after the supposed death of Jesus.. hardly a eye-witness...

 

[logician]

After watching The God Who Wasn't There by Brian Flemming, I decided to write a book on the Jesus Myth. I've written papers for and against the subject in the past (as I've been on both sides of the issue), but decided to write a more in depth discussion on the subject, taking the position that a historical Jesus did in fact exist, but was not as the Bible portrays him.

As I would like this to be all inclusive, with me not leaving out anything that may be considered important, I would just like to get everyone's arguments for and against.

So basically, is the Jesus Myth true?

There is absolutely no credible historial evidence that a Jesus remotely resembling the biblical Jesus ever existed. No historian current to the days that the supposed Jesus lived ever heard of such a man.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

The first historian to document a "christ" was Josephus and he was born in 37 AD, four years after the supposed death of Jesus.. hardly a eye-witness...

Haha... Funny name :yes: Mr.Smasher

 

[Jesus Smasher]

Haha... Funny name :yes: Mr.Smasher

:jam:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There is absolutely no credible historial evidence that a Jesus remotely resembling the biblical Jesus ever existed. No historian current to the days that the supposed Jesus lived ever heard of such a man.

... which is, of course, the only criterion for determining historicity...

 

[Jesus Smasher]

... which is, of course, the only criterion for determining historicity...

Well we haven't found anything else to prove that he was there... If someone could produce a fingerprint then that would count too

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well we haven't found anything else to prove that he was there... If someone could produce a fingerprint then that would count too

:biglaugh:

It seems to me that we have enough material concerning a historical Jesus that we cannot say that there is no evidence. It's a matter of sorting out the evidence to specifically define the historical Jesus.

But discussing the historical Jesus isn't my thing... Oberon would be the authority here on that.

 

[Jesus Smasher]

:biglaugh:

It seems to me that we have enough material concerning a historical Jesus that we cannot say that there is no evidence. It's a matter of sorting out the evidence to specifically define the historical Jesus.

cite.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

cite.

Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jesus Smasher]

Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you cite an open encyclopedia? you can't cite it on a research paper, you can't use it as a citation here. try again. AND IT QUOTES THE BIBLE AS CREDIBILITY.. no.. that's the same book that also says that people flew, dragons lived, a man sailed on a boat with every animal on the planet, that you could be healed & resurrected miraculously and live forever. Also your own cite has a big section for Jesus as a myth.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

you cite an open encyclopedia? you can't cite it on a research paper, you can't use it as a citation here. try again.

I can cite it here - this isn't a research paper.

With someone who has no clue about a topic, wiki is a good place to start.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

you cite an open encyclopedia? you can't cite it on a research paper, you can't use it as a citation here. try again. AND IT QUOTES THE BIBLE AS CREDIBILITY.. no.. that's the same book that also says that people flew, dragons lived, a man sailed on a boat with every animal on the planet, that you could be healed & resurrected and live forever. Also your own cite has a big section for Jesus as a myth.

Yes...

The historicity is somewhere in the myth.

For example, Plato and Xenophon believed all kinds of things about the gods and nature that are completely wrong, but does that mean Socrates didn't exist?

 

[Jesus Smasher]

Yes...

The historicity is somewhere in the myth.

For example, Plato and Xenophon believed all kinds of things about the gods and nature that are completely wrong, but does that mean Socrates didn't exist?

Like Jesus.. Socrates has little to no historical evidence for being an actual person. Plato wrote about him as a student.. However, Plato did not write that Socrates was going around healing the sick and resurrecting friends, AND Plato actually lived in the same time-line as the supposed Socrates. Some historians do debate whether or not he existed, guy - and I wouldn't argue that he for darn sure did exist.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Like Jesus.. Socrates has little to no historical evidence for being an actual person. Plato wrote about him as a student.. However, Plato did not write that Socrates was going around healing the sick and resurrecting friends, AND Plato actually lived in the same time-line as the supposed Socrates. Some historians do debate whether or not he existed, guy - and I wouldn't argue that he for darn sure did exist.

It's one thing to argue that a person didn't exist and quite another to say that there is no evidence, particularly as strongly as Logician is prone to do.

The wiki article is quite good in introducing sources. I don't think that we can prove conclusively, with a very high standard of proof, that most people existed in ancient times.

BTW, concerning Jesus, we can simply exclude the healings and such as non-historical, building on an older source.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Like Jesus.. Socrates has little to no historical evidence for being an actual person. Plato wrote about him as a student.. However, Plato did not write that Socrates was going around healing the sick and resurrecting friends, AND Plato actually lived in the same time-line as the supposed Socrates. Some historians do debate whether or not he existed, guy - and I wouldn't argue that he for darn sure did exist.

How do you know?