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The Incontrovertible Miracles; I challenge you to find a loophole

Peace4all

Active Member
oh yeah then whats a dhow? and theres no coast lines in arab areas
A dhow (Arabic,دهو) is a traditional Arab sailing vessel with one or more lateen sails. It is primarily used along the coasts of the Arabian Peninsula, India, and East Africa. A larger dhow may have a crew of approximately thirty while smaller dhows have crews typically ranging around twelve.

For celestial navigation, dhow sailors have traditionally used the kamal. This observation device determines latitude by finding the angle of the Pole Star above the horizon.
Up to the 1960s, dhows made commercial journeys between the Persian Gulf and East Africa using only sails as a means of propulsion. The freight was mostly dates and fish to East Africa and mangrove timber to the lands in the Persian Gulf. They sailed south with the monsoon in winter or early spring and back again to Arabia in late spring or early summer.

source wiki

Whew. I had a lot of hw 2 do but now im back. Thx for holding the torch my fellow mb.

That’s interesting, but all this information isn’t relevant until you give me a year. Dhows didn’t even start to exist until late 9th century. Really, Arabs and water is an oxymoron. So really most Meccans had never really even seen a body of surface water until the 8th century. Even if they did – I doubt they would stop to question of why water is blue. In the good ole days you just knew water was blue and that all you’d have to know.
 

Peace4all

Active Member
So where Vikings. Actually, they were arguably more savage than the Arabs, yet they were masters of sea travel.
So vikings lived on an island so they were masters of the seas...
and Arabs lived in a desert so they were masters of camel riding....

makes sense?
 

Peace4all

Active Member
Look, in this basic experiment t the conductors put different types of liquid and used color dye to differentiate between the different liquids:

50510542.JPG

This primarily occurs because of density (so it is relevant) . It’s obvious that density, salinity, and temperature are all interconnected. And btw currents exist in oceans, the ayat talks about seas.

It says that they mix. Which is all that is relevant.
It then questions why they are turbulent.
No…. let me prove it to you. Here I will use the little common sense that I have:

Nordic seas= of turbulent nature
So this causes the Nordic seas to mix
Not all seas are turbulent, so this is an exception

[FONT=&quot]Is that too hard to understand?
[/FONT]
A difference in salinity would have an identical effect (and void your argument), but the forces it adds screws any chance your argument had at all. Surface tension is caused by the hydrogen bonds between water molecules. Ions mess that up, as the water would rather be near, say, a chlorine ion than a partially charged oxygen atom. That means both sides of the membranes would be attracted to each other. Surface tension only exists because the surface of water is only being pulled away from the surface.. Now its being pulled in every direction, hence a membrane cannot form.
'
Lol. This is why you must provide citation when you make an argument. I cannot battle ignorance. Ions are irrelevant to this discussion:

In 2004, scientists tackled the question of where ions—charged particles such as chloride from the salt sodium chloride (Cl - of NaCl), for example—go in a body of water. Conventional wisdom says the surface layers of water repel ions, which are abundant in salty seawater.
Source: Ions at the Edge
The Chemistry of Water: Making a Splash >> Ions and interactions

This only proves your ignorance and feeble understanding of chemistry; you are making a fool of yourself. Once again, I extend my citation from the beginning of my post:

(Davis, Richard A., Jr. 1972, Principles of Oceanography, Don Mills, Ontario, Addison-Wesley Publishing, s. 92-93.)
 

Peace4all

Active Member
Indeed raven, context is very important.

[13.39] Allah makes to pass away and establishes what He pleases, and with Him is the basis of the Book.
[13.40] And We will either let you see part of what We threaten them with or cause you to die, for only the delivery of the message is (incumbent) on you, while calling (them) to account is Our (business).
[13.41] Do they not see that We are bringing destruction upon the land by curtailing it of its sides? And Allah pronounces a doom-- there is no repeller of His decree, and He is swift to take account.
[13.42] And those before them did indeed make plans, but all planning is Allah's; He knows what every soul earns, and the unbelievers shall come to know for whom is the (better) issue of the abode.[13.43] And those who disbelieve say: You are not a messenger. Say: Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and whoever has knowledge of the Book

I have read this surah numerous times, and the context is perfectly appropriate. Allah SWT talks about the end of the earth and the start of the after life. The Mecans ridiculed Mohamed PBUH, saying that god would not have the ability to move the earth. So in 13:41 Allah SWT uses the example of tectonic plates to prove his power. Makes sense?
 

yossarian22

Resident Schizophrenic
Look, in this basic experiment t the conductors put different types of liquid and used color dye to differentiate between the different liquids:
Voided right there.
Different liquids.
Its like saying 'Water can have a surface pressure next to oil'
Which is obvious and uninteresting because water and oil cannot mix.
Water can mix with water however.
Also, the two seas are not on top of each other are they?
They are next to each other. Notice how you are unable to respond to the basic physical impossibility of surface tension stopping mixing
This primarily occurs because of density (so it is relevant) .
Nope. Its still irrelevant.
The two things which have the greatest effect on density are temperature and particle concentration.
Temperature can be thrown out because they must have similar temperatures.
It’s obvious that density, salinity, and temperature are all interconnected.
Nope.
Salinity and temperature are independent.
Density has no effect on either salinity or temperature.
Because density must be a function of salinity, density is irrelevant.
And btw currents exist in oceans
And seas. I take it you have never been boating.
The currents in the Mediterranean are well documented.
Nordic seas= of turbulent nature
So this causes the Nordic seas to mix
Not all seas are turbulent, so this is an exception
:rolleyes:
How many would you like me to cite?
I can show you current tables for almost any sea out there.
The north sea, the Gulf of Mexico, the Baltic sea.
Seas which do not mix with other sources of water seem to the exception.

Lol. This is why you must provide citation when you make an argument. I cannot battle ignorance. Ions are irrelevant to this discussion:
Take a basic chem class before spewing this nonsense.
If you are in one, pay attention at least. Have you never balanced a pin on the surface of a water, then dropped soap in to cause the pin to drop?
In 2004, scientists tackled the question of where ions—charged particles such as chloride from the salt sodium chloride (Cl - of NaCl), for example—go in a body of water. Conventional wisdom says the surface layers of water repel ions, which are abundant in salty seawater.
Source: Ions at the Edge
The Chemistry of Water: Making a Splash >> Ions and interactions

This only proves your ignorance and feeble understanding of chemistry; you are making a fool of yourself. Once again, I extend my citation from the beginning of my post:
:areyoucra
I see you cherrypicked your quote
Here is the entire thing, bolded for your convenience.
In 2004, scientists tackled the question of where ions—charged particles such as chloride from the salt sodium chloride (Cl - of NaCl), for example—go in a body of water. Conventional wisdom says the surface layers of water repel ions, which are abundant in salty seawater. Consequently, scientists thought such molecules might get buried, going deep into the interior of solutions. But new experimental and computer-generated models from several different research teams indicate the current thinking is wrong. Although they disagree on some of the details, everyone involved concludes that at least some ions are present in the surface layers of water particles. And where there are accumulated ions, chemistry can occur.
In fact, exposed ions on the ocean surface and in aerosols could potentially bind and react with all sorts of chemicals from the atmosphere. Consequently, fog and ocean spray droplets may be more chemically reactive than previously thought. Indeed, recent atmospheric research indicates that is the case. For example, reports suggest that two ions found in seawater—bromide and chloride—trigger chemical reactions that destroy ozone in the Arctic atmosphere. These destructive but natural events occur after wind and waves deposit the chemicals on polar ice and expose them to sunlight. If the 2004 results hold up, atmospheric chemists who have long ignored the contributions of surface ions when modeling conditions such as air quality will have to rethink their calculations.


Stop grasping.
 

kai

ragamuffin
Whew. I had a lot of hw 2 do but now im back. Thx for holding the torch my fellow mb.

That’s interesting, but all this information isn’t relevant until you give me a year. Dhows didn’t even start to exist until late 9th century. Really, Arabs and water is an oxymoron. So really most Meccans had never really even seen a body of surface water until the 8th century. Even if they did – I doubt they would stop to question of why water is blue. In the good ole days you just knew water was blue and that all you’d have to know.
Early Trade
So to understand who the ancient Arab traders were, we must go back in history to the time of the Greek Empire. After Alexander the Great's death, the Greek Empire was split up between Alexander's generals. Soon these generals began warring with each other for greater control. In the Middle East, this translated into a struggle between the Seleucids of Damascus and the Ptolomies of Egypt. These two dynasties struggled with each other for several hundred years. I believe it was during these years that Arab trade across the Indian Ocean developed.
source Nabataean Sea Merchants

and no one is saying its a miracle that the quran says ocean is blue, they are saying its a miracle because it gets darker the deeper you go
 

Quoth The Raven

Half Arsed Muse
Indeed raven, context is very important.



I have read this surah numerous times, and the context is perfectly appropriate. Allah SWT talks about the end of the earth and the start of the after life. The Mecans ridiculed Mohamed PBUH, saying that god would not have the ability to move the earth. So in 13:41 Allah SWT uses the example of tectonic plates to prove his power. Makes sense?
Nope. If you said it was an earthquake it would make sense. That at least is speedy and destructive and the earth moves in a noticeable fashion.
The text clearly states Allah is swift in his judgement. Either he's swift or he moves at the breakneck pace of a couple of inches a year. It doesn't work both ways. Unless this is what you want to see and you aren't prepared to see anything else, there's no way you can resolve the concept of swift judgement with the speed of plate subduction.
 
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