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Featured The Image Christians Have of People

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Jagella, May 27, 2022.

  1. Jagella

    Jagella Member

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    We are told we are made in the image of God which I suppose is good. However, our being made in God's image doesn't keep us people from being really bad. Christianity tells us that we are all sinners falling short of God's glory. We simply cannot be trusted to make our own moral decisions and should trust God to make those decisions for us. In fact, "if there is no God, then everything is permitted." And of course, we sinful people will do that which should not be permitted!

    As we are told in Psalm 14:

    Are we really that bad?
     
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  2. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    From my understanding; Psalm 14 includes all people as sinners.

    Verse 1 is certainly talking about atheists; but verse 2 goes on to include everyone, even Christians. No one is good. No one seeks God. That is actually core to Christian understanding. That we are all in need of a Savior and all need forgiveness of sins.
     
  3. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Only in the eyes of people who thought up those silly religious parameters.

    Why would you think just because someone invented a bunch of standards that your bad on the basis of what someone else says is bad?
     
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  4. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
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    Considering that God likes slavery and genocide, I would not be so sure it is good we are in His image.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  5. The Hammer

    The Hammer Lord of Animals
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    Idk, we have too many people on earth as it is. We could stand to lose. A billion. Or 3.
     
  6. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    There's always two paths a human can go down when it boils down to it. To be in defense of good will, or to commit to hatred without just cause. I do not think that it is a born trait of any human being that they are going to turn rotten. So there is where people make their choice.

    As for Christianity I think that definition of sinner is not based on the truth of reality. Since I don't think it is a true account of humanity I think it is harmful. It's important to never be satisfied with anything less than the truth on important matters; that is what a truth seeker does. Those that don't seek the truth and don't care are going to be lawless and satisfy themselves with falsity, or things that seem so but are not so.

    I do think there are plenty of Christians who are absolutely convinced they have the truth to the point where they never question it. If I can't question and test the so called truth there is no chance I'm going to follow a path of any kind. If I can't have honest doubts then that is no good either.

    I feel I've proved and tested this religion reliably to myself. I've opted out of it for lots of reasons.
     
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  7. Jagella

    Jagella Member

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    Yes. I noticed the same equivocation in the passage. It goes something like this:

    Atheists are fools.
    Everybody is really bad!

    Why pick on atheists when you want to libel everybody in the very next verse? ;)

    Anyway, Psalm 14 is libel. Contrary to what it says, most people are good most of the time doing good. When people denigrate humanity, they foster disrespect for human life. No doubt the Psalmist already hated people and advertised for others to hate people too.
     
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  8. Jagella

    Jagella Member

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    I tend to say I'm bad based on what I see as bad.
     
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  9. Jagella

    Jagella Member

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    I agree that God's image is a bit tarnished, but most Christian apologists will still insist that God is perfectly righteous regardless of what he does to people. William Lane Craig says, for instance, that: "God has the power of life and death." This "power" grants God the right to do what he pleases and look good doing it. Craig further argues that God's killing can be a blessing in disguise. If God kills babies, then he'll send them all straight to heaven.

    I'm not making this up.
     
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  10. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Really the scriptures single out idol worshipers and other types of sinners far more in the Bible than atheists. Atheists do get the rare mention.

    I think the Psalmist includes himself and is humble enough. He's speaking as if from God's perspective. It is God that looks down from heaven and sees that all people have gone astray so to speak.

    This was common knowledge in ancient Jewish beliefs and customs. The idea that everyone ... even the angels were imperfect and flawed compared to God. Because God sees all things. He knows every thought or action you've ever done. He also knows our motives and how vain we are in our thinking. How we think highly of ourselves and look down on others for example. God knows and sees all this. So he's not really impressed with humans. However, he does still love us.
     
  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find Jesus' ransom he paid for us covers MANY but Not all according to Matthew 20:28.
    Only those considered as 'wicked' are really that bad - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
    They simply will Never ' repent ' so they will ' perish ' (be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9
     
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    In Scripture parents are held responsible for minor children - 1 Corinthians 7:14.
    In Noah's Day parents were held responsible for their minor children.
    What those people experienced was a 'divine execution' for the sake of righteous people.
    Those children would have grown up violent like the parents and thus No one righteous would be left on Earth.
    No Heavenly life involved, but as Psalms 92:7 says ' destruction' for the wicked - Psalms 104:35
    Thus, it is such parents who send their minors, not to heaven, but to destruction - Proverbs 2:21-22.
     
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Naw.
     
  14. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    First of all, only God can judge.

    I would focus on God's love, rather than God's judgment.
    God loves everyone: because we are all equal in his eyes.
    :)

    God gave us free will out of Love.
    In the very moment He gave us free will, He has left us alone. So we cannot blame God for anything.
     
  15. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    That was the moment when he blundred.
     
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  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    God has sure left us alone. Free will does not cure diseases and stop accidents and shootings and deaths....
    God created a world in which He knew humans would suffer. How is that Love?
     
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  17. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    True

    Free Will (if one follows Dharma)
    Free Choice (actually bound by Karma Law)

    We still are Divine incarnations (Hindu way of describing) or children of God (Christian & Hindu way of describing), even if karmic deeds are performed, which seem 'bad' but which are in reality unavoidable reactions to previous actions

    My Master tells us, that present Self Effort can lift us from misery to our true Divine state. 1 in a billion reach it maybe, acording to Him (road is narrow, few will find it).

    For me this is the greatest and most daring truth challenge on earth
     
  18. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    That's a good point. If God had dwelled on Earth, preventing evil and unhappiness from harming His children's lives, that would have been wonderful.
    But He would have deprived us of Freedom.
    Freedom is His gift.
     
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  19. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    It is what I was taught in my childhood church. It is isn't the point of view, for example, of John the brother of Jesus or of James or of the apostle Paul. There are other examples of famous Christians who cannot be construed as holding that point of view. It does not have to be the center of Christianity and is not supportable in Christian scripture (despite the posted verse). Reform is very difficult, however, and may not happen.
     
    #19 Brickjectivity, May 28, 2022
    Last edited: May 28, 2022
  20. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I am atheist and would hold my personal moral values above most Christians.

    From my experience of Christianity i would suggest most non Christians can say the same
     
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