The Holy Spirit

[Audie]

I have no problem imagining the scene.

There had just been a shipwreck. People had had to swim ashore. It was cold and raining. The local people kindly built a fire, and Paul collects sticks to help build it. As he adds his bundle of sticks to the fire a viper, hidden amongst the sticks, bites him. He shakes it off as soon as he realises that a snake has its fangs in his skin!

The locals, who must have known of these vipers, witness the scene, and think that the bite will kill Paul. But he is unaffected.

It's hardly an unbelievable story!

You can imagine gathering sticks but not noticing one is not
a stick? Thats a lot of imaging but zero thought.

You may want to be careful about being a gullible
believer/ assumer.

A "believer"* who will believe anything, including that
a person could go about picking up sticks and
not even notice one of them is a snake. Seriously?
How obviously unlikely can you get?

It is also obvious that the locals are ignorant and superstitious about snakes- like todays americans.

Some bites are painful, none are fast acting as in what they are described as expecting.
But, you know, ignorant.
Viper bite takes hours to kill, if it kills the person at all.
Very few can correctly udentify a snake. Seeing a small one ( IF there ever was a snake) being thrashed about for a moment, then correctly identifying tho it behaves it a unique way?

Fat chance.

Most people are apt to be terrified by any snake bite and expect sudden death.
Any snake would have fooled them.

Also, a viper does not " cling". Its a strike
so quick all youd see is a flicker of movement.

Of course you did not know any of that.




* not so a Believer who believes in God but is not gullible.

 

[Redemptionsong]

You can imagine gathering sticks but not noticing one is not
a stick? Thats a lot of imaging but zero thought.

You may want to be careful about being a gullible
believer/ assumer.

A "believer"* who will believe anything, including that
a person could go about picking up sticks and
not even notice one of them is a snake. Seriously?
How obviously unlikely can you get?

It is also obvious that the locals are ignorant and superstitious about snakes- like todays americans.

Some bites are painful, none are fast acting as in what they are described as expecting.
But, you know, ignorant.
Viper bite takes hours to kill, if it kills the person at all.
Very few can correctly udentify a snake. Seeing a small one ( IF there ever was a snake) being thrashed about for a moment, then correctly identifying tho it behaves it a unique way?

Fat chance.

Most people are apt to be terrified by any snake bite and expect sudden death.
Any snake would have fooled them.

Also, a viper does not " cling". Its a strike
so quick all youd see is a flicker of movement.

Of course you did not know any of that.




* not so a Believer who believes in God but is not gullible.

Snakes camouflage themselves well. I imagine it's easy to pick one up by mistake, especially in a bundle of sticks.

Had you doubted the miraculous power of God to heal Paul instantaneously, l could have had some sympathy, but to object to the story of the snake biting someone is ... weird!

 

[Audie]

Snakes camouflage themselves well. I imagine it's easy to pick one up by mistake, especially in a bundle of sticks.

Had you doubted the miraculous power of God to heal Paul instantaneously, l could have had some sympathy, but to object to the story of the snake biting someone is ... weird!

Since you revise the story, refuse to read what i said, or, heaven forbid, think about it theres nothing furthrr to
say except its a poor faith that would require eyes shut and mind turned off.

 

[MyM]

Let me stop you at the word 'baptism'.

What was the 'baptism' brought by Jesus Christ?

It's not about being baptized...it is just a commitment part of the entire scenario.

In Islam, there is no such thing as being baptized. You believe in Allah as the only one worthy of worship, all the books, prophets, angels, the day of judgement and fate.

People make the holy spirit into something it isn't in my opinion. It's like this magical presence that's supposed to keep you from committing sins. It doesn't work. But there are contradictions in the Bible concerning it. One time it speaks like the holy spirit is to teach you things and then it says it's the prince of the world (which is not a spirit but a man) and then the holy spirit was already in the Bible before Jesus. Doesn't make sense. A lot of people use their own opinions and no one objects. Guesswork doesn't mean it's God's words to me anyways

In the book of John it says the "Comforter" is the holy spirit and it's supposed to teach you...when does the spirit talk, what did he teach? In these verses it also says the prince of the world will come....who was that?

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Since you revise the story, refuse to read what i said, or, heaven forbid, think about it theres nothing furthrr to
say except its a poor faith that would require eyes shut and mind turned off.

This demonstrates that you and l work differently. Eyes open, and carnally minded, is different from eyes closed but spiritually aware!

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
paarsurrey said: ↑
Paul had got nothing to do with Jesus and or his teachings. Paul invented the Pauline-Christianity which had got nothing to do with Jesus and or his teachings.

Paul invented a queer creed of Pauline-Christianity that every human is sinful except innocent Jesus . I therefore, describe Paul as Sinful Paul, Sinful Matthew etc. Should Christian mind it?
Adam, Jesus and Mary were innocents, I am all praise for them.

Regards

This is not true.

Which part of the teaching of Paul would Jesus have disagreed with?

" Paul invented a queer creed of Pauline-Christianity that every human is sinful except innocent Jesus "
^
Regards

 

[Audie]

This demonstrates that you and l work differently. Eyes open, and carnally minded, is different from eyes closed but spiritually aware!

If that is " awareness" I want nothing to do with it.

 

[Sheldon]

God does not create evil people. He creates people with the potential to do good, or evil. This is what is called 'freewill'.

"But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses."
Exodus 9:12

Ahem!!

No different from the effect that the LORD has had on you, it would seem!

Do you not have freewill?

I don't believe that of course, but were it true then no, I could not have free will if a deity had affected my decisions, as he is said to have done in the bible quote above, thus your claim seems dubious, or the bible is wrong.

 

[Sheldon]

The meaning of the phrase 'scripture cannot be broken' is made clear by the consistency of scripture itself.

Ecclesiastes 1:4
"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever."

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19

“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22

“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17

[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12

“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1

I could go on of course, but I think you get the idea.

 

[savagewind]

Kindly quote from Jesus to substantiate one's point, please. Right?

Regards

I never heard Jesus. Have you?

 

[paarsurrey]

I never heard Jesus. Have you?

Jesus died a natural death, as did Moses. One cannot hear from the dead, yet almost and or all of the 32000+ Pauline-Christianity denomination people claim they hear from Jesus. Am I correct to conclude it, please?

Regards

 

[savagewind]

Jesus died a natural death, as did Moses. One cannot hear from the dead, yet almost and or all of the 32000+ Pauline-Christianity denomination people claim they hear from Jesus. Am I correct to conclude it, please?

Regards

I think not. Most hear about Jesus. I do not know about the people who claim to hear from Jesus.

 

[Redemptionsong]

It's not about being baptized...it is just a commitment part of the entire scenario.

In Islam, there is no such thing as being baptized. You believe in Allah as the only one worthy of worship, all the books, prophets, angels, the day of judgement and fate.

People make the holy spirit into something it isn't in my opinion. It's like this magical presence that's supposed to keep you from committing sins. It doesn't work. But there are contradictions in the Bible concerning it. One time it speaks like the holy spirit is to teach you things and then it says it's the prince of the world (which is not a spirit but a man) and then the holy spirit was already in the Bible before Jesus. Doesn't make sense. A lot of people use their own opinions and no one objects. Guesswork doesn't mean it's God's words to me anyways

In the book of John it says the "Comforter" is the holy spirit and it's supposed to teach you...when does the spirit talk, what did he teach? In these verses it also says the prince of the world will come....who was that?

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

It is, indeed, about being baptised.

When John was baptising with water unto repentance, he said of Jesus, 'he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:'

Without the baptism of the Holy Spirit, a man cannot enter the kingdom of God.

P.S. The prince of this world is the devil.

 

[MyM]

It is, indeed, about being baptised.

When John was baptising with water unto repentance, he said of Jesus, 'he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:'

Without the baptism of the Holy Spirit, a man cannot enter the kingdom of God.

P.S. The prince of this world is the devil.

Even that is a contradiction and confusing
because Jesus was promising the holy spirit after he went away yet, the holy spirit was already present there....

 

[Redemptionsong]

I could go on of course, but I think you get the idea.

I'm pleased to see that you're now using some evidence to support your claims! The problem is, you've been misled by some poor teaching.

If one makes comparisons between two different covenants, one is bound to find differences. The covenant made between God and Israel at Sinai is a covenant of law. The covenant made with Jesus Christ is a covenant of grace.

I'm numbering your boxes 1-8 in the following response.
1. The present heaven and earth is replaced by a new (and eternal) heaven and earth. Rev.21.
2. Man's sabbath day is replaced in the new covenant with God's sabbath of rest (in Christ).
3. The Father is not seen by man, but Christ is the face of God, and is seen.
4. What makes things possible with God is faith. Judah's faith had a limit, just as all men are limited in faith. Only Christ was perfectly faithful.
5. A clear difference between two covenants. Justice exists under law, and grace in Christ.
6. I see no inconsistency between these two passages from the Torah.
7. Under the Law (Exodus), the iniquity of the fathers is visited upon the children. This is not the case when the wicked man turns from his sins and keeps all the statutes [Ezekiel 18:21]. Did this happen before the coming of Christ? No.
8. You need to look up the word 'tempt' in both the Hebrew and Greek. To tempt God with evil is not the same as setting a trial to test a man's faith.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Even that is a contradiction and confusing
because Jesus was promising the holy spirit after he went away yet, the holy spirit was already present there....

The Holy Spirit has been present since creation, but it was made a promise to all who follow Christ in faith. This is why it's the baptism in his name alone.

 

[MyM]

I'm pleased to see that you're now using some evidence to support your claims! The problem is, you've been misled by some poor teaching.

If one makes comparisons between two different covenants, one is bound to find differences. The covenant made between God and Israel at Sinai is a covenant of law. The covenant made with Jesus Christ is a covenant of grace.

I'm numbering your boxes 1-8 in the following response.
1. The present heaven and earth is replaced by a new (and eternal) heaven and earth. Rev.21.
2. Man's sabbath day is replaced in the new covenant with God's sabbath of rest (in Christ).
3. The Father is not seen by man, but Christ is the face of God, and is seen.
4. What makes things possible with God is faith. Judah's faith had a limit, just as all men are limited in faith. Only Christ was perfectly faithful.
5. A clear difference between two covenants. Justice exists under law, and grace in Christ.
6. I see no inconsistency between these two passages from the Torah.
7. Under the Law (Exodus), the iniquity of the fathers is visited upon the children. This is not the case when the wicked man turns from his sins and keeps all the statutes [Ezekiel 18:21]. Did this happen before the coming of Christ? No.
8. You need to look up the word 'tempt' in both the Hebrew and Greek. To tempt God with evil is not the same as setting a trial to test a man's faith.

It's not about "covenants" It's about what is correct pertaining to what is there in the Bible that makes sense and what and how it is translated

Jesus never came with anything new...maybe the gift of being kind and loving but that doesn't make him God or bringing a new message. Matthew 5:17-20 Jesus says:

• 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way {wise} pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said he didn't come to change the laws but to fulfill them. There is a huge difference between the two messages. The Jews profess one God. The Christians profess, 3 in 1. Paul changed the law and that is the message most Christians follow.

Jesus is not God and does not have the face of God in the literal sense. There are others who saw the face of God like Jacob in Genesis 32. In Islam, Jesus is a messenger of God. All prophets and messengers were perfect in professing the messages of Allah.

We were talkin about the original sin. Paul created it. Jesus did not. 2 Timothy 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

IN II Samuel 24 and in 1 Chronicles 21 (both authors unknown)...telll me, what is the Hebrew or Greek word for this contradiction?

• AND again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against..(IISamuel)
• AND SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.(IChronicles)

When someone tells me to look up a word in Hebrew or Greek, there are many instances I can say the very same to. Many Christians are completely clueless of what has been translated into the Bibles these days. They don't know what has been changed, deleted, added, plagiarized, or if any of it is 100% fact. This is what is scary with the Bible.

You know what I think someone should do? I think someone should translate the English into Hebrew AND Greek. Then have someone see the contradictions and why they were written like they are in the Bible. Only fair. I mean they should publicize it to the world of Christiandom, but they don't want that.

 

[MyM]

The Holy Spirit has been present since creation, but it was made a promise to all who follow Christ in faith. This is why it's the baptism in his name alone.

Except that Jesus made it a requirement that he must go away before it comes.

 

[Redemptionsong]

It's not about "covenants" It's about what is correct pertaining to what is there in the Bible that makes sense and what and how it is translated

Jesus never came with anything new...maybe the gift of being kind and loving but that doesn't make him God or bringing a new message. Matthew 5:17-20 Jesus says:

• 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way {wise} pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said he didn't come to change the laws but to fulfill them. There is a huge difference between the two messages. The Jews profess one God. The Christians profess, 3 in 1. Paul changed the law and that is the message most Christians follow.

Jesus is not God and does not have the face of God in the literal sense. There are others who saw the face of God like Jacob in Genesis 32. In Islam, Jesus is a messenger of God. All prophets and messengers were perfect in professing the messages of Allah.

We were talkin about the original sin. Paul created it. Jesus did not. 2 Timothy 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

IN II Samuel 24 and in 1 Chronicles 21 (both authors unknown)...telll me, what is the Hebrew or Greek word for this contradiction?

• AND again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against..(IISamuel)
• AND SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.(IChronicles)

When someone tells me to look up a word in Hebrew or Greek, there are many instances I can say the very same to. Many Christians are completely clueless of what has been translated into the Bibles these days. They don't know what has been changed, deleted, added, plagiarized, or if any of it is 100% fact. This is what is scary with the Bible.

You know what I think someone should do? I think someone should translate the English into Hebrew AND Greek. Then have someone see the contradictions and why they were written like they are in the Bible. Only fair. I mean they should publicize it to the world of Christiandom, but they don't want that.

The canon of scripture has been established. The question is whether the message is consistent and believable. I hold that it is.

To say that Jews believe in one God, and Christians in some other God is complete nonsense and does no justice to the wording found in scripture.

The Christian God is the same God, the Father.

Did the Father come to earth in Jesus Christ? Yes, scripture teaches this.

Did Jesus Christ bring something new? Most definitely. A new covenant, which came into effect after his death, resurrection and ascension.

Did the Father come to earth as the Comforter, the Holy Spirit? Yes, scripture teaches this.

 

[Audie]

The canon of scripture has been established. The question is whether the message is consistent and believable. I hold that it is.

To say that Jews believe in one God, and Christians in some other God is complete nonsense and does no justice to the wording found in scripture.

The Christian God is the same God, the Father.

Did the Father come to earth in Jesus Christ? Yes, scripture teaches this.

Did Jesus Christ bring something new? Most definitely. A new covenant, which came into effect after his death, resurrection and ascension.

Did the Father come to earth as the Comforter, the Holy Spirit? Yes, scripture teaches this.

You hold its believable regardless of facts