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The Holy Spirit

lockyfan

Active Member
the faithful slave wants to do what their master wants of them.

The creator - Jehovah, wants people to know and come to an accurate knowledge of Him. He wants this to happen through the preaching and teaching work. So really it is not against the illustration of the slave. It is completely in line with it.

He provides this information through study and application of the bible.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
the faithful slave wants to do what their master wants of them.

The creator - Jehovah, wants people to know and come to an accurate knowledge of Him. He wants this to happen through the preaching and teaching work. So really it is not against the illustration of the slave. It is completely in line with it.

He provides this information through study and application of the bible.

OK. You said they search for it. In a household where there are slaves the master provides what is needed, the slaves need not "search" for it. That is what I meant.

The question I had is if Jehovah wants people to know him and He provides this information through study and application of the bible, why can only an extreme few know? Do you know?

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that I cannot find "accurate knowledge" by searching for it. I must line up with the faithful and discreet slave. I don't believe that. Do you?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How does a person know Jehovah by applying the bible? I think that by applying the wisdom of the bible a person learns to know his or her self. I believe it is not right to call any created thing "Jehovah".
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have not come to the conclusion of this but what if enough believing made anything come true? There you have seven million people (not counting the dead ones) strongly believing the faithful and discreet slave who all are Jehovah's Witnesses is alone in understanding the bible message. But if someone who is a brother of Christ is wanting to know Almighty God seven million people says he can not without the seven million. To me I understand that it is the opposite of doing good to Jesus' brothers. Believing that a searcher cannot find the truth without the help of the seven million is like starving a man or leaving him naked imho.

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


Matthew 25:31-46 NIV - The Sheep and the Goats -
 
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Jensen

Active Member
In the JW view, what governing body did Jehovah reveal the truth to before there were JWs?
That is among the Christian body...

Jensen
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
In the JW view, what governing body did Jehovah reveal the truth to before there were JWs?
That is among the Christian body...

Jensen

Hi Jensen,
The original governing body was the 12 apostles and the 'older men' of the congregations. You can get an idea of how this group of spiritually qualified men worked together in Acts 15 when a decision had to be made about the mosaic law and its application for gentiles.
its interesting that in the letter the Apostles distributed to the congregations, they mentioned that the decision was unanimous among themselves 'and the older men'
Acts 16:4*Now as they traveled on through the cities they would deliver to those there for observance the decrees that had been decided upon by the apostles and older men who were in Jerusalem

So basically, the 'governing body' refers to spiritually qualified men who head the congregations of God on earth. They oversee the production of spiritual food and direction on the preaching and teaching work as Christ directed them to.

There is another group mentioned by Jesus called 'the faithful and discreet slave' This is a different group to the governing body. They serve different functions. But pretty much all churches function with a governing body of one type or another. It is the ones at the top who lead the congregation...in catholosism we'd think of it as being the Pope and the bishops. They 'govern' as a 'body'
For us, we have a group of of about 10 spiriutally qualified men who serve as co-ordinators for all our activity and distribution of spiritual food...we call them the 'governing body' and they are assisted by 'elders' who are spiritually qualified christians.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Produce - Make or manufacture from components or raw materials

I think you rightly mean "publish".

The Word needs not to be produced.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. "The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 1 Corinthians 3:7

How is the faithful and discreet slave producing wheat?

What are they "producing"?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Someone will say they are producing books.

Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body. Ecclesiastes 12:12
 

Jensen

Active Member
Hi Jensen,
The original governing body was the 12 apostles and the 'older men' of the congregations. You can get an idea of how this group of spiritually qualified men worked together in Acts 15 when a decision had to be made about the mosaic law and its application for gentiles.
its interesting that in the letter the Apostles distributed to the congregations, they mentioned that the decision was unanimous among themselves 'and the older men'
Acts 16:4*Now as they traveled on through the cities they would deliver to those there for observance the decrees that had been decided upon by the apostles and older men who were in Jerusalem

So basically, the 'governing body' refers to spiritually qualified men who head the congregations of God on earth. They oversee the production of spiritual food and direction on the preaching and teaching work as Christ directed them to.

There is another group mentioned by Jesus called 'the faithful and discreet slave' This is a different group to the governing body. They serve different functions. But pretty much all churches function with a governing body of one type or another. It is the ones at the top who lead the congregation...in catholosism we'd think of it as being the Pope and the bishops. They 'govern' as a 'body'
For us, we have a group of of about 10 spiriutally qualified men who serve as co-ordinators for all our activity and distribution of spiritual food...we call them the 'governing body' and they are assisted by 'elders' who are spiritually qualified christians.

Hi Peg, thanks for the reply.

The first governing body, the Apostles, and Jesus, were not Christians. They were Jewish and went to the Synagogue; their group being a new sect of Judaism, or a movement to bring Judaism back to a more correct understanding of their faith in God. And later the bringing in the gentiles to that faith. I don't believe that the governing body that was of the Apostles was Christian, but of the Jewish faith. Just my thoughts on this. Would you agree with this?

My question now would be....

Do JWs believe that their governing body is the only one that God directs to a clearer and better understanding of his message? Or do they believe that there are others at this time that God directs also? Thanks...

Jensen
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do JWs believe that their governing body is the only one that God directs to a clearer and better understanding of his message? Or do they believe that there are others at this time that God directs also?

Without the assistance of “the faithful and discreet slave,” we would neither understand the full import of what we read in God’s Word nor know how to apply it." Examining the Scriptures Daily 2012 Mar 4
Jehovah's Witnesses, about the Faithful & Discreet Slave and this Watchtower quote:? - Yahoo! Answers

Matthew 24:47 he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Hi Peg, thanks for the reply.

The first governing body, the Apostles, and Jesus, were not Christians. They were Jewish and went to the Synagogue; their group being a new sect of Judaism, or a movement to bring Judaism back to a more correct understanding of their faith in God. And later the bringing in the gentiles to that faith. I don't believe that the governing body that was of the Apostles was Christian, but of the Jewish faith. Just my thoughts on this. Would you agree with this?


absolutely correct that they were jewish, no doubt about that. But it appears that very early on it was God who gave them the name 'christian' as is seen in the account in Acts 11:26*and, after he found him, he brought him to Antioch. It thus came about that for a whole year they gathered together with them in the congregation and taught quite a crowd, and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.

'christian' means 'messianist' in hebrew. So it is unlikely that the Jews named Jesus’ followers Christians (Greek) or Messianists (Hebrew), because they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and would not have given him or his followers such a prestigious title.

My question now would be....

Do JWs believe that their governing body is the only one that God directs to a clearer and better understanding of his message? Or do they believe that there are others at this time that God directs also? Thanks...

Jensen

This question depends on how you believe Christ 'directs' his congregation. If you consider what Jesus told his disicples before he ascended, it is clear that not all christians are being 'directed' by Jesus.

Consider the commission Jesus gave his followers. “You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)

If Jesus 'direction' is based on the above scripture, then an evidence of his direction would have to be in how active a congregation is in preaching the good news of the kingdom.

We have to draw our own conclusion on this matter though because its a matter of 'faith' really. Jesus wanted all his disciples to preach the good news of the kingdom, not all christians are active in such work... could that be an evidence that they dont have Jesus with them??? Thats something we need to use our powers of judgement on and it comes a result of searching the scriptures and using them to examine our own religions to see how well they measure up....because thats exactly what Jesus did when he came to inspect his followers.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This question depends on how you believe Christ 'directs' his congregation.

I believe the question is; Do you believe the members of the governing body are the only ones God is directing for salvation. Do Jehovah's witnesses believe there are other individuals not of the governing body with whom God communicates? Or perhaps God is directing silently.
Are the members of the governing body of Jehovah's witnesses the only humans who can know what The Word means? All of it, not just the "make disciples" part.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have a word to say about make.
According to the interlinear translation I use, the word "make" does not appear at Matthew 28:19. I understand what I have heard which is The Holy Spirit does not actually speak to the seeker, but that it directs the seeker into truth.

How did the governing body decide MAKE belongs here?; having gone therefore disciple all the nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of The Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19
 
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Tdidymos

Member
Do you realize you keep skirting the question?

Is Jesus head of the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses? He came back and now heads the organization. Correct? Is he also silent to the Governing Body or does he speak to them? If you do not know you can say so.

He guides them through holy spirit.

It's the same as how the Book of Acts describe the first century Governing Body in Jerusalem was guided by Jesus through holy spirit in the circumcision matter. It's in Acts chapter 15.

Now some men came down from Ju·de′a and began to teach the brothers: “Unless you get circumcised according to the custom of Moses,+ you cannot be saved.” 2 But after quite a bit of dissension and disputing by Paul and Bar′na·bas with them, it was arranged for Paul, Bar′na·bas, and some of the others to go up to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem+ regarding this issue.*
3 So after being escorted partway by the congregation, these men continued on through both Phoe·ni′cia and Sa·mar′i·a, relating in detail the conversion of people of the nations and bringing great joy to all the brothers. 4 On arriving in Jerusalem, they were kindly received by the congregation and the apostles and the elders, and they related the many things God had done by means of them. 5 But some of those of the sect of the Pharisees who had become believers stood up from their seats and said: “It is necessary to circumcise them and command them to observe the Law of Moses.”+
6 So the apostles and the elders gathered together to look into this matter. 7 After much intense discussion* had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: “Men, brothers, you well know that from early days God made the choice among you that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe.+ 8 And God, who knows the heart,+ bore witness by giving them the holy spirit,+ just as he did to us also. 9 And he made no distinction at all between us and them,+ but purified their hearts by faith.+ 10 So why are you now making a test of God by imposing on the neck of the disciples a yoke+ that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing?+ 11 On the contrary, we have faith that we are saved through the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus+ in the same way that they are.”+
12 At that the entire group became silent, and they began to listen to Bar′na·bas and Paul relate the many signs and wonders* that God had done through them among the nations. 13 After they finished speaking, James replied: “Men, brothers, hear me. 14 Sym′e·on+ has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.+ 15 And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 ‘After these things I will return and raise up again the tent* of David that is fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it, 17 so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah,* together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah,* who is doing these things,+ 18 known from of old.’+ 19 Therefore, my decision* is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God,+ 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols,+ from sexual immorality,*+ from what is strangled,* and from blood.+ 21 For from ancient times Moses has had those who preach him in city after city, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath.”+
22 Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole congregation, decided to send chosen men from among them to Antioch, along with Paul and Bar′na·bas; they sent Judas who was called Bar′sab·bas and Silas,+ who were leading men among the brothers. 23 They wrote this and sent it through them:
“The apostles and the elders, your brothers, to those brothers in Antioch,+ Syria, and Ci·li′cia who are from the nations: Greetings! 24 Since we have heard that some went out from among us and caused you trouble with what they have said,+ trying to subvert you,* although we did not give them any instructions, 25 we have come to a unanimous decision to choose men to send to you together with our beloved Bar′na·bas and Paul, 26 men who have given up their lives* for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.+ 27 We are therefore sending Judas and Silas, so that they also may report the same things by word of mouth.+ 28 For the holy spirit+ and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols,+ from blood,+ from what is strangled,*+ and from sexual immorality.*+ If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”*
 
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