The Holy Spirit

[savagewind]

It was posted on another thread that holy spirit can come to all but speaks only to the anointed. "Only through the anointed are truths revealed".

I suppose the question is how is it a Bible teaching?

 

[savagewind]

Please

 

[savagewind]

Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. John 14:23

Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

It is being taught in the religion of the Jehovah's Witnesses that God communicates only to the leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Is this true?

The promise of 'Jesus' at John 14:23 surely cannot mean that he might be present with anyone but never say anything. What does John 14:23 mean to a Jehovah's Witness?

 

[savagewind]

What does John 14:23 mean to a Jehovah's Witness please?

 

[kjw47]

It was posted on another thread that holy spirit can come to all but speaks only to the anointed. "Only through the anointed are truths revealed".

I suppose the question is how is it a Bible teaching?

Jesus appointed the faithful and discreet slave( annointed lead teachers) over all of his belongings( flock) the domestics mentioned are like( elders, ministerial servants) to give food( revealed truths) spiritual) at the proper time( when God reveals them, not before)

 

[savagewind]

Jesus appointed the faithful and discreet slave( annointed lead teachers) over all of his belongings( flock) the domestics mentioned are like( elders, ministerial servants) to give food( revealed truths) spiritual) at the proper time( when God reveals them, not before)

I know. How are the truths "revealed" to them? Truth is reveal to the world by the faithful and discreet slave. OK. How is truth revealed to the faithful and discreet slave?

 

[kjw47]

What does John 14:23 mean to a Jehovah's Witness please?

The way one proves their love for Jesus and his Father is by listening to the teachings of Jesus, and applying them obviously,, not picking this one or that one and deciding i dont have to do that one. Because Jesus taught--Man does not live by bread alone, but by every utterance of Gods. And if one does this with their whole heart,soul,mind and strength-- Jehovah and Jesus will stand up for them when its needed. something like that. Instead of not being known by Jesus as some are( Matt 7:21-23) Jesus will know them.

 

[savagewind]

The way one proves their love for Jesus and his Father is by listening to the teachings of Jesus, and applying them obviously,, not picking this one or that one and deciding i dont have to do that one. Because Jesus taught--Man does not live by bread alone, but by every utterance of Gods. And if one does this with their whole heart,soul,mind and strength-- Jehovah and Jesus will stand up for them when its needed. something like that. Instead of not being known by Jesus as some are( Matt 7:21-23) Jesus will know them.

Do you realize you keep skirting the question?

Is Jesus head of the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses? He came back and now heads the organization. Correct? Is he also silent to the Governing Body or does he speak to them? If you do not know you can say so.

 

[Pegg]

does the Watchtower society instill a love and faith in the Creator and his Son Christ Jesus? Do they promote and uphold his high standards of morality? Does the Watchtower Society do the work that Jesus assigned his disciples, namely the preaching of the good news of the kingdom? Have they remained neutral in the worlds politics and its nationalistic endeavors?
Are they providing spiritual food to Jesus sheep in the world?

If the answer to these questions is yes, then why criticize? Is that what Jesus would want you to do?

 

[savagewind]

does the Watchtower society instill a love and faith in the Creator and his Son Christ Jesus? Do they promote and uphold his high standards of morality? Does the Watchtower Society do the work that Jesus assigned his disciples, namely the preaching of the good news of the kingdom? Have they remained neutral in the worlds politics and its nationalistic endeavors?
Are they providing spiritual food to Jesus sheep in the world?

If the answer to these questions is yes, then why criticize? Is that what Jesus would want you to do?

Did Jesus criticize the Pharisees? What were they doing to be criticized by him?

I do not believe it is criticism to ask if they hear from Jesus.

 

[Pegg]

you really want to know if they hear from Jesus audibly?

No they dont. Nor do they, or have they, ever claimed to. But every christian has the bible from which to derive their information... and it is holy spirit that gives understanding of what is written in there.

To know if holy spirit is operative, you need to look at the 'fruits' as Jesus explained. The fruit of holy spirit will manifest itself in a variety of ways...it will be seen in the love shown and displayed, faith in God and his word, adherence to his righteous standards and the operation of holy spirit will also drive christians to a very specific work....

Acts 1:8 but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de′a and Sa·mar′i·a and to the most distant part of the earth.” Obviously the preaching of the good news is an operation of holy spirit...the spirit is also a teacher as Jesus explained at John 14:26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU


So Jesus doesnt need to be physically present, he doesnt need to speak directly to anyone... it all happens as an operation of holy spirit.

 

[savagewind]

Thank you. I do not believe it is possible for Jesus to be "physically" present.

I posted a scripture that says "if anyone hears my voice". Revelation 3:20.

What does it mean? Does "hearing his voice" mean "understanding" and not really hearing anything? OK. But it says "anyone". It is believed by many that not anyone can understand what he is saying and we need to be told what it means. If that is true, what does "anyone" mean? I believe I can "hear" it but you are correct in saying it is not an audible voice. But if what I am hearing is different than what someone else is hearing, I must be wrong because my Christian duty is to acquiesce to the other's definition according to Philippians 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.


My question is how am I to understand what Revelation means by "anyone".

 

[savagewind]

Another problem I see is Revelation says "IF" "anyone" hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him and he with me.

The word if denotes indefiniteness or uncertainty.

 

[Pegg]

Thank you. I do not believe it is possible for Jesus to be "physically" present.

I posted a scripture that says "if anyone hears my voice". Revelation 3:20.

What does it mean? Does "hearing his voice" mean "understanding" and not really hearing anything? OK. But it says "anyone". It is believed by many that not anyone can understand what he is saying and we need to be told what it means. If that is true, what does "anyone" mean? I believe I can "hear" it but you are correct in saying it is not an audible voice. But if what I am hearing is different than what someone else is hearing, I must be wrong because my Christian duty is to acquiesce to the other's definition according to Philippians 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.


My question is how am I to understand what Revelation means by "anyone".

Rev 3:20 Look! I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into his [house] and take the evening meal with him and he with me.

Now go and look at to whom Jesus directed these words:
Luke 12:32 “Have no fear, little flock, because YOUR Father has approved of giving YOU the kingdom. ...5 “Let YOUR loins be girded and YOUR lamps be burning, 36 and YOU yourselves be like men waiting for their master when he returns from the marriage, so that at his arriving and knocking they may at once open to him.

It is Jesus 'little flock' who are the ones 'hearing' and because they hear, they open the door and he takes the evening meal with them.

Not all christians are members of the little flock which is evidenced by the fact that not all christians comply with Jesus instructions, nor do they live by and promote Gods moral standards among their members. Please look at Jesus illustration about the marriage feast in Matthew 22.
In that illustration, a man is found who is not wearing a marriage garment, and the master deny's knowing him and throws him out of the marriage feast....then jesus says "many are invited but few chosen"

'Anyone' does not mean 'everyone'.... yes anyone can be invited, but only those who are hearing and obeying will be chosen.

 

[Pegg]

Another problem I see is Revelation says "IF" "anyone" hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him and he with me.

The word if denotes indefiniteness or uncertainty.

yes thats right, because to 'hear' is to 'obey'


not all will be willing to obey the voice they hear.... and so the door will not be opened and Jesus will not be among them.

 

[savagewind]

That sounds reasonable. Thank you.

 

[Pegg]

yw

 

[kjw47]

Do you realize you keep skirting the question?

Is Jesus head of the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses? He came back and now heads the organization. Correct? Is he also silent to the Governing Body or does he speak to them? If you do not know you can say so.

Spiritual truths are revealed to the governing body( at the proper time) --- that means when God wills a certain truth to be revealed--thus until that precise time not even the governing body knows that truth and errors would occur until the proper time--- but then change from error to truth must occur like it has done throughout the JW history.
God uses the HS to deliver his messages usually.

 

[lockyfan]

Hi Savagewind

The best way to say it is this.

Yes Jesus is the head of the congregation as is told to us in many scriptures of the bible.

The Anointed while having a calling are not Inspired as the bible writers were. They are people who open the bible and study it in light of all other scriptures comparing and looking to them scriptures to help us understand more fully Jehovahs purposes.

Jehovahs Holy Spirit while it does not inspire these men, helps lead them to bible truths as it will anyone who so desires to find them.
All Jehovahs Witnesses are encouraged to look up all information given and research it for ourselves to see if we too think the teachings are what line up with the bible.

But those men who we call the faithful and discreet slave really are very humble men who really just want to find the truth about Jehovah and spread it throughout the earth. Just as the scriptures tell us.

remember (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,  that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

I hope this helps you. if not i can do more research for you and get back. please let me know thank you.

 

[savagewind]

But those men who we call the faithful and discreet slave really are very humble men who really just want to find the truth about Jehovah and spread it throughout the earth. Just as the scriptures tell us.

This, I believe, is contrary to the illustration of the faithful and discreet slave. The slave was appointed by the master. So the master provides the food, the slave distributes it. They do not have to look for it.