The Hellinization of Jews and Greek philosophy

[sooda]

Thankyou I will read that if I can thats interesting.

I think the Greeks contributed to the Jews.. Jesus spent most of his ministry up around Galilee and the Decapolis cities which were prosperous and more cosmopolitan than Jerusalem because of trade..

So, IMO .. its all good …. From everything I have read I have this impression that the Jews of Jerusalem were a bunch of stiff necked old crows.

@IndigoChild5559 knows this stuff cold and is a good teacher so I invite correction.

 

[sooda]

Well Im playing 2 hands here. I tend to agree with the Pagan Christ theory. However sense I went on the wiki side of things, I thought Id play devils advocate by taking the Christian side of things, because it seems to me that even if you goa long with Christian beliefs, the early Christians beliefs were way way way different then those in the church.

They were borrowing from a few different religions and philosophy to get Christianity. Yet the conservative churches think they are the only ones going to heaven, to me that's directly against the original sharing of philosophy and religions.

I wont speak on liberal Christian churches though, they dont study Greek philosophy but are more accepting of GLBTs and folks from different religions so they seem to be a little closer to the original group who shared ideas and religions and philosophy.

A bunch of rabbis in Israel decided to tackle the issue of gays and transgendered people head on.. so they had a pow wow.. and came to the conclusion that God made them too.

There's nothing like folks that can reason.

 

[whirlingmerc]

You didn't need to go to Rome to be influenced by Greek culture.

Greek culture was very influential here have been Hellenic communities across the Middle East since the time of Alexander the Great, see Hellenistic period - Wikipedia



Greek philosophy has always had an influence on Christianity. Even early Christians acknowledge this. It's hardly controversial.



Philosophy far more than mythology, Platonism for example.

Of course there were Roman cities in Israel at the time of Christ, the whole nation was occupied by Rome. But so what?

Esther: For such a time as this - storytelling version

Queen Esther and Daniel were up to their eyeballs in Babylon-ish culture doesn't mean God can't preserve a people through it.

 

[sooda]

Of course there were Roman cities in Israel at the time of Christ, the whole nation was occupied by Rome. But so what?

The Roman occupation was the burning issue for the Jews.. The Jews that sided with Rome were considered apostate by other Jews. .

Why do you suppose Israel is called the whore of Babylon?

 

[shunyadragon]

The Roman occupation was the burning issue for the Jews.. The Jews that sided with Rome were considered apostate by other Jews. .

Why do you suppose Israel is called the whore of Babylon?

. . . but Christianity became Roman.

 

[sooda]

. . . but Christianity became Roman.

I know, but I thought we were discussing the Hellinization of the Jews?????

 

[whirlingmerc]

The Roman occupation was the burning issue for the Jews.. The Jews that sided with Rome were considered apostate by other Jews. .

Why do you suppose Israel is called the whore of Babylon?

There was a remnant God preserved who were not.

But there is a reason the book of Hosea was written and it was in part written to show the mercy and grace available to heal and forgive that

 

[whirlingmerc]

I know, but I thought we were discussing the Hellinization of the Jews?????

At the risk of being called "Captain Obvious" I think God puts the different world views together side by side to showcase His own truth and some are influenced one way and some the other

 

[sooda]

There was a remnant God preserved who were not.

But there is a reason the book of Hosea was written and it was in part written to show the mercy and grace available to heal and forgive that

Hosea lived in the 8th century BC... The parable relates to Hosea forgiving his wayward wife.

Jesus didn't destroy the Temple for no reason.

 

[sooda]

There was a remnant God preserved who were not.

But there is a reason the book of Hosea was written and it was in part written to show the mercy and grace available to heal and forgive that

Remember Titus had a love affair with Herod's granddaughter so there's that association. She would have been considered an apostate Jew for siding with Rome against the Zealots ect.

1. BERENICE, Much-married sister & lover of King Agrippa
   www.womeninthebible.net/women-bible-old-new-testaments/bernice...
   Berenice was a law unto herself. She certainly made the most of her royal status. She was the great-granddaughter of the ruthless, mentally unstable King Herod the Great and; daughter of Herod Agrippa I, a shrewd man and a close friend of the Roman emperor Claudius; she married well three times – she seemed to have inherited her father’s shrewd intellect
   
   
2. Berenice (daughter of Herod Agrippa) - Wikipedia
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berenice_(daughter_of_Herod_Agrippa_I)
   Berenice (daughter of Herod Agrippa) She is also mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles (25:13, 23; 26:30). However, it is for her tumultuous love life that she is primarily known from the Renaissance. Her reputation was based on the bias of the Romans to the Eastern …
   

 

[sooda]

Of course there were Roman cities in Israel at the time of Christ, the whole nation was occupied by Rome. But so what?

Esther: For such a time as this - storytelling version

Queen Esther and Daniel were up to their eyeballs in Babylon-ish culture doesn't mean God can't preserve a people through it.

Daniel was never in Babylon.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Remember Titus had a love affair with Herod's granddaughter so there's that association. She would have been considered an apostate Jew for siding with Rome against the Zealots ect.

1. BERENICE, Much-married sister & lover of King Agrippa
   www.womeninthebible.net/women-bible-old-new-testaments/bernice...
   Berenice was a law unto herself. She certainly made the most of her royal status. She was the great-granddaughter of the ruthless, mentally unstable King Herod the Great and; daughter of Herod Agrippa I, a shrewd man and a close friend of the Roman emperor Claudius; she married well three times – she seemed to have inherited her father’s shrewd intellect
   
   
2. Berenice (daughter of Herod Agrippa) - Wikipedia
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berenice_(daughter_of_Herod_Agrippa_I)
   Berenice (daughter of Herod Agrippa) She is also mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles (25:13, 23; 26:30). However, it is for her tumultuous love life that she is primarily known from the Renaissance. Her reputation was based on the bias of the Romans to the Eastern …

Sounds like lots of Hollywood

 

[sooda]

Sounds like lots of Hollywood

Rev 11:8

Their corpses will lie in the street of the great city that is symbolically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was also crucified

 

[whirlingmerc]

Daniel was never in Babylon.

Oh?
The book of Daniel refers to Babylon 19 times
The land of Shiner (is that were the tower of Babel was)

I do like that he and his friends got names of Babylonish gods but they fiddled with the spellings.. now even the King gave up the Bablyonish name for Daniel and stuck with the Hebrew for 'his guy' who earned the right

There is actually a big debate between the faculty of Hogwarts and CS Lewis and his friends on that issue

A Posited Debate - The Book of Daniel

 

[whirlingmerc]

Rev 11:8

Their corpses will lie in the street of the great city that is symbolically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was also crucified

Yes... Revelation is referring to the early part of Isaiah

 

[sooda]

Oh?
The book of Daniel refers to Babylon 19 times
The land of Shiner (is that were the tower of Babel was)

I do like that he and his friends got names of Babylonish gods but they fiddled with the spellings.. now even the King gave up the Bablyonish name for Daniel and stuck with the Hebrew for 'his guy' who earned the right

There is actually a big debate between the faculty of Hogwarts and CS Lewis and his friends on that issue

A Posited Debate - The Book of Daniel

"Daniel" wasn't the author of the Book of Daniel.. and the author is writing history.. after the fact of the Babylonian exile.. It goes on to talk about the Messiah (Cyrus of Persia) restoring the Jews to Palestine.

 

[sooda]

Cyrus God's Annointed Shepherd - Bible Research
www.bibleresearch.org/articles/a2pws.htm
Cyrus Invades Babylon. Nearly 150 years before Cyrus' birth, God declared through the prophet Isaiah that a man named Cyrus would be the anointed shepherd of his people and rebuild Jerusalem. At the time of the prophecy of Isaiah, Jerusalem was a prosperous city that would not be destroyed for more than 100 years by the Babylonian king, Nebuchadnezzar.

 

[whirlingmerc]

"Daniel" wasn't the author of the Book of Daniel.. and the author is writing history.. after the fact of the Babylonian exile.. It goes on to talk about the Messiah (Cyrus of Persia) restoring the Jews to Palestine.

The kingdom did go through several hands in the book
Walls fall... meme meme terkel parsens ... and the Persons take over
and in the height of the empire the King is take with the lovely Esther

and do you believe Esther won the Miss Babylonia contest?

 

[sooda]

The kingdom did go through several hands in the book
Walls fall... meme meme terkel parsens ... and the Persons take over
and in the height of the empire the King is take with the lovely Esther

and do you believe Esther won the Miss Babylonia contest?

Its not my favorite story.. Vashti refused to dance for a group of drunken men.

The Book of Esther

 

[whirlingmerc]

Its not my favorite story.. Vashti refused to dance for a group of drunken men.

The Book of Esther

I do feel sorry for Vashti... although in real life she was a pretty tough cookie

From a literary point of view
the book starts with a King asking a Queen to a banquet (she does not)
and ends with a Queen asking a King to a banquet ( he does)
Reversals upon reversals

I do like that the American post office gets it's motto from the Babylonian delivery service