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Featured The Greatest Suffering is Love

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Oct 3, 2019.

?
  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    63.6%
  3. I offer another thought

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    This is a discussion about Love and suffering.

    My thoughts are that God Messengers are our source of Love. I imagine, that to have such an all embracing Love, that nearly no one sees or appreciates, or even rejects, results in an unimaginable suffering.

    What do you think?

    Do you have a quote to share?

    I find this thought interesting;

    "Does the soul progress more through sorrow or through the joy in this world?' ‘Abdu’l-Bahá. -- 'The mind and spirit of man advance when he is tried by suffering. The more the ground is ploughed the better the seed will grow, the better the harvest will be. Just as the plough furrows the earth deeply, purifying it of weeds and thistles, so suffering and tribulation free man from the petty affairs of this worldly life until he arrives at a state of complete detachment. His attitude in this world will be that of divine happiness. Man is, so to speak, unripe: the heat of the fire of suffering will mature him. Look back to the times past and you will find that the greatest men have suffered most."

    ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 178

    Please discuss.

    P/S on the Light side, If it causes suffering in discussing this, that may be good :)

    PP/S At this time I see it as yes

    Regards Tony
     
    #1 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Oct 3, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
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  2. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Suffering is the catalyst for self improvement.

    So in Buddhism, is the goal to overcome suffering self defeating? :eek:
     
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  3. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    No, I'd say the ultimate suffering is high IQ. Imagine having to talk with literally less than half your intelligence and then be happy as they do an unending amount of stupid **** from your perspective. The only reason you get through it is that you realize it's somewhat like being mad at the dog for doing the dog stuff.

    And worse, you can actually try to clue them in but they're actually too stupid to understand you. If it's not related to something pop cultural you simply cannot communicate with them effectively -- but, of course, pop culture is made for the dummies as well and you know nothing much about it. :D
     
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  4. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    I would say to overcome is to accept. Thus a great goal. I see that acceptance of our lot in life, things we cannot change is but one part.

    The other is in submission. Choosing preference to serving others than serving one's own wants.

    Regards Tony
     
  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    Do we view children that way, or do we love them knowing the wonder they can find as their young minds open to wonderful new truths?

    Regards Tony
     
  6. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Sounds ruff.
     
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  7. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Pretty elitist, in my view. It's not suffering to listen patiently to someone perhaps not as bright as yourself, or even to reply courteously. You can always use some part of your greater intelligence to while away the time pondering more interesting things...
     
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  8. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    I don't know that I could call anything "the greatest suffering," since I suppose that will be different for different people. A candidate for me (I might change my mind tomorrow, as my mood changes) for "greatest suffering" is to be absolutely helpless to do anything when confronted with the suffering of others.
     
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  9. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    This is a very complex issue you've raised to which I have no simple way to answer. here's a few different thoughts:

    From one perspective, we have the Buddhist 4 Noble Truths about suffering and the relief of suffering.

    Then we have the suffering of the Christ, the Avatar who takes on the suffering of humanity in order to free us from it and allow us a new beginning.

    We also have those who suffer from longing for God. There are such people mostly in India but also a few in the West.

    Then there's the individual suffering of people who are hungry, in pain and lose loved ones. There's also the individual suffering of those who don't get what they want or get what they want but find it hollow.
     
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  10. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Suffering, like love, is simply an illusion.
     
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  11. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Ahaṁ Brahmāsmi
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    So if I click "yes" or "no," I'm not allowed to have another thought?

    I'll play it safe and not vote.

    In my view, suffering is a result of attachments to relative reality. As can any other drive, such as hunger. Love, like hunger, drives one to create a goal, an attachment. With hunger, the goal is food, and food is the attachment. With love, another person or people becomes a goal, and the person/people are the attachment.

    So yes, I am of the opinion that love can and often does lead to suffering.
     
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  12. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Ahaṁ Brahmāsmi
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    THIS ^^
     
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  13. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Suffering, to me, is just an aspect of life. No need to read into it with conjectures about philosophy. Who hasn't had an injury? It's cured somewhat by affectionate detachment.
     
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  14. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    Ordinary human love results in misery. Love for God brings blessedness.

    Always do your duty to others, but love you must give to God alone. Worldly love always brings in its wake untold misery.

    If you love any human being you will have to suffer for it. That person is blessed, indeed, who can love God alone. There is no suffering in loving God. ~ Sharada Devi



    Because of the factor of impermanence, all worldly love is bound to end in pain and suffering upon the inevitable separation. Love for that which is permanent and eternal, that is Spirit or God or Truth, is however bound to be a source of bliss and joy always and never subject to the misery of loss or separation.
     
  15. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    This is from the book of James...

    "Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you meet with various trials, 3 knowing as you do that this tested quality of your faith produces endurance. 4 But let endurance complete its work, so that you may be complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything.

    5 So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep asking in faith not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways. . . .

    Happy is the man who keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which Jehovah promised to those who continue loving Him. 13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death.

    16 Do not be misled, my beloved brothers. 17 Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows. 18 It was his will to bring us forth by the word of truth, so that we would become a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.


    19 Know this, my beloved brothers: Everyone must be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger, 20 for man’s anger does not bring about God’s righteousness. 21 Therefore, put away all filthiness and every trace of badness, and accept with mildness the implanting of the word that is able to save you."
    (James 1:2-21)

    Some good counsel there. There is joy even in trials because to come through them successfully, we keep developing the quality of endurance.....so necessary in this time of the end. (Matthew 24:13)
     
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  16. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    A permanent self is none existing in Buddhism so it is the attachments to a self that leads to suffering. When someone says it hurt ME, a Buddhist would ask who is the "me"? can you point at the self? everything in this world is impermanent, meaning it will disappear so it can not be a true self.
    What one can say is, it hurt the body, but when the attachment to the body has been let go of, who is the "I" that someone says I am hurt? No, it is a body that is hurt. The body is not self :)
    So for a practicing Buddhist, when every attachment to human existence has been let go of, the pain or suffering is not personalized, it is just pain, but it will disappear.
     
    #16 Amanaki, Oct 4, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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  17. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    All attachments bring pain. Sham love is the worst. Tony, did you start the topic to quote from Abdul Baha? And Deeje followed you with his own.
     
    #17 Aupmanyav, Oct 4, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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  18. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Not how I'd see it. I see both suffering and love (and all our other emotions) as biochemical algorithms, evolved like all the rest that makes us human. And in that sense, they are precisely as "real" as we are. Now, if you'd like to suggest that we are also illusions, that's fine. I'd be interested to know how you think that might be.
     
  19. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    My favourite 'love song called 'Love song'..great lyrics

     
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  20. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    suffering comes from a person's excessive or inability to control normal levels of emotion
    Or it may be because of his desire to repent of guilt or revive his conscience

    It is important that a person is kept awake and insightful to the needs of people
    Sitting in temples and asceticism hinders social solidarity
    Some religions are even interested in arranging religious visits to collect money.
    That is, its activity turns from producer to consumer
    The right of consumption is under the pretext of religious activity? !!
    In Islam I feel happy because I don't have to pay money to the clergy
    I just help those in need who can't get a job
    I am against the exploitation of religious practices in order to get money

    I mean to cause suffering to others and make their way of salvation by paying me money
     
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