The 'great nothing', vs heaven or hell: which is better?

[Howard Is]

I generally do not take trips without a lot of preparation.

Neither do I.

I recommend you read ‘The Human Biocomputer : Programming and Metaprogramming’ by Dr John Lilly.

He conducted experiments where subjects were ‘programmed’ with belief systems using hypnotic inductions, then placed in a floatation/isolation chamber with a 500 microgram (!) dose of LSD.

The experiences they had were profound, and of the ‘mystical revelation’ kind.

The important point - those experiences also reinforced the belief they took into the trip.

Humans have reprogrammable wetware. Neural plasticity.

What happens if you decide to believe nothing...and then take a trip ?
Have you been there yet ?

 

[Trailblazer]

Ummm....

So He is perfect, but he f***ed up badly ?

What did he f up?

 

[Trailblazer]

The scriptures were written by theologians with an agenda.

No, the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Qur'an was dictated by Muhammad to scribes who wrote it, and the Revelation of Baha'u'llah was written in His Own Pen.

 

[Trailblazer]

Neither do I.

I recommend you read ‘The Human Biocomputer : Programming and Metaprogramming’ by Dr John Lilly.

He conducted experiments where subjects were ‘programmed’ with belief systems using hypnotic inductions, then placed in a floatation/isolation chamber with a 500 microgram (!) dose of LSD.

The experiences they had were profound, and of the ‘mystical revelation’ kind.

The important point - those experiences also reinforced the belief they took into the trip.

Humans have reprogrammable wetware. Neural plasticity.

What happens if you decide to believe nothing...and then take a trip ?
Have you been there yet ?

The bottom line is that I believe what my religion teaches about the afterlife.
Obviously YMMV.

 

[Howard Is]

No, the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Qur'an was dictated by Muhammad to scribes who wrote it, and the Revelation of Baha'u'llah was written in His Own Pen.

You haven’t read mine yet.

 

[Trailblazer]

You haven’t read mine yet.

Your what?

 

[Trailblazer]

Scripture is not evidence.

Clairvoyance is a con

Believe whatever you want to.

You will have your evidence when you die.

 

[Trailblazer]

What god?
What heaven?

The ones I believe in.

 

[Trailblazer]

Сonsciousness forever...
We can only remain in a state of peace and bliss, in unity with the Primordial Higher Consciousness ...
But this is not exactly "do nothing."

I think we will continue to learn and evolve, and we will have work to do, service work.

 

[Trailblazer]

The existence of unicorns doesn’t contradict your religious beliefs, I assume. If I told you they lived on Mars, there’d still be no reason to believe me.

What I meant to say is that these afterlife accounts are congruent with my beliefs. Unicorns aren’t.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, you are a better person than I am. I'll rub it in. Once. Then of course we are all going to be too busy figuring out what 'comes next' to indulge in 'I told you so's" (assuming, of course, that there IS an afterlife....)

I say I won’t rub it in but I could change my mind, and I will make a special exception for one atheist I know.

 

[Trailblazer]

Really doesn't matter to me. I just make know assumptions about knowing what I don't know. If there is some kind of existence after we die, great. If not, no one is going to know about it.

Sure, lots of books to read. Lots of different beliefs about what happens after we die. Pick any belief you want. Any one is as likely to be right or wrong since none can really be validated.

Just amazes me that folks go about claiming knowledge they don't have.

There is no proof but there is evidence. Of course it cannot be validated, that will happen when you die, but I am not about to wait that long because I like to be as prepared as I can be for eternity.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's all about how humans can get to a truth.

If hell is true then how possible is it for humans to get to this truth? That's the question. One possible way is to boost up our technology level, such that we can prove it's absence. A very strange fact is that long before the emergence of human science, ancient humans seemed to have already defined hell/soul and etc. don't lie inside our realm (our space/time). How possible is it for our science to prove the absence of such things lying outside of our living realm (space/time).

Maybe to the atheists' surprise, our science has gone that far yet! It simply means we can't rely on our technology to examine hell's existence, or to go outside of our space/time to gather evidence of such an existence. Science is not the way to prove or disprove such an existence, not within your life time anyway. So the question remains, "do you still want to know the answer within your life time on what could possibly happen after your death?"

Now an alternative way to possibly get to this truth. If a God exists and He chooses to tell humans, then humans can thus get to this truth. But how? Of course if the God is willing to confront humans and to tell them directly, then humans will know. If on the other hand, if the God has a good reason to hide behind, then what will be the possibilities for humans to get to the truth?

The most fundamental way for humans to get to a truth is by faith in human testimonies. We (humans in majority) don't need to acquired evidence of black holes to confirm their existence. Instead, we have faith in our scientists such that we know the existence of black holes without any single piece of physical evidence. Our scientists act as credible eyewitnesses accounts to testify the truth of black holes for us to reach this truth.

Similarly, we can look into the credibility of human eyewitnesses accounts testifying the truth of God, then for us to consider the message conveyed in this God's holy book. This actually remains the only way for humans to get to the truth of hell. (though it demands not only faith, but also wisdom)

Finally, a rational person. I fully agree.

I believe in the testimonies of Messengers of God, and that is the only way to know anything about God, since God does not speak to anyone else. It is also the best source of information about the afterlife, heaven and hell.

I believe that spirits who are in the spiritual world can communicate through mediums and tell us about the afterlife. I do not place that on the same level of proof as religious scriptures but it provides more details.

 

[Howard Is]

What I meant to say is that these afterlife accounts are congruent with my beliefs. Unicorns aren’t.

‘Belief’ is a programming activity.

You are creating the ‘validity’ of your scriptures.

If there is a Holy Spirit, why not get it from the source ?

I think people use scriptures to give authority to what they have chosen to believe.

 

[Howard Is]

since God does not speak to anyone else

And there it is...the lynchpin of your meta program.

How the hell would you know that ?

Because you chose to give authority to someone who said so.

It is all a circular argument.

But reprogramming wetware to produce specific beliefs, and the ‘experiences’ which confirm them is a demonstrable fact.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because you chose to give authority to someone who said so.

I do because I thoroughly checked Him out.

 

[Twilight Hue]

When I die I hope that is it, end of story, I have no wish of an afterlife.

Well if ego is any indicator, we will all get that very wish. A next life will be for another 'me' to worry about. ;0)

 

[Trailblazer]

If there is a Holy Spirit, why not get it from the source ?.

Because God does not speak to ordinary humans through the Holy Spirit.
God only speaks to Messengers who have special qualities and qualifications.

 

[Howard Is]

reprogramming wetware to produce specific beliefs, and the ‘experiences’ which confirm them is a demonstrable fact.

I can easily hypothesise evolutionary reasons why this is the case.

It is about pack bonding. Humans are born without beliefs. The social environment in which you develop inculcates the beliefs which form bonds in the group.

That wasn’t such a problem when most people never crossed borders, read books, or met anyone not from their village. In other words, until less than 200 years ago.

Now everyone is freaking out and trying to prove that their ‘experiences’ and beliefs are the real deal. That is a modern dilemma for ordinary people. And nobody much is providing the tools to extricate ourselves from that dilemma.

 

[Howard Is]

God only speaks to Messengers who have special qualities and qualifications.

According to the claims of those you have decided are the real authorities.

Circular argument.