The 'great nothing', vs heaven or hell: which is better?

[Howard Is]

Let me run a possible scenario by you.

Imagine that God, the omnipotent and omniscient creator of the universe is evil. This life only exists so that we have at least some concept of comfort and the ability to hope. After death, everybody goes to a place of unimaginable suffering for eternity. Doesn't matter what you did in life or who you were, everybody is damned. There's no hope of release and no way to fight back against an omnipotent creator.

If we don't know what the afterlife holds, then that scenario is a possibility. Perhaps you haven't envisioned an afterlife that you're completely at ease with, I can accept that. I'll also hold my hands up and admit that saying "most comforting" was a poor choice of words. I would still suggest though that your beliefs are preferable to entertaining the possibilities an unknown afterlife could hold.

That's by no means a criticism by the way. I can't contemplate the scenario I outlined above for too long and I don't believe it would be healthy to do so.

Man, did you take the brown acid ? LOL

 

[Trailblazer]

There's got to be an afterlife. Precisely because this life right now is one.

I don't believe in reincarnation.

 

[r2d2009]

The spiritual world is a world of emotional states.
That is why all religions condemn negative emotions and elevate positive ones.
And getting into one or another “place” is a matter of habit.

 

[Trailblazer]

How will a dead and decaying brain realise anything?

The brain won't realize anything, the soul will.
The soul is responsible for consciousness in this life since it animates the body and brain.
The soul is not the mind but it operates through the mind.
When we die the soul leaves the dead body it goes to the spiritual world where it takes on a spiritual body.
Full consciousness is retained in the afterlife and we continue to go about our business as we did in this world, absent the physical body..

 

[Trailblazer]

What evidence? Remembering of course the definition on evidence

"the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

Information about the afterlife comes through scriptures. Information also comes and mediums who receive communication from the spiritual world (also referred to as the next world, since it is where we go next).

 

[r2d2009]

and we continue to go about our business as we did in this world

I think we cannot continue our business without our bodyes, but we can continue our states of consciousness...

 

[ChristineM]

Which is true?

Lets stick with facts.

The law of conservation of mass and the first law of thermodynamics tell us that in a closed system mass/energy cannot be created or destroyed. We need to assume the universe is a closed system.

Ok, life ceases to function, death occurs, no electricity generation to power the brain, cells begin to decompose into constituent molecules and atoms.

Natural processes will ensure those constituents are reused. Maybe to enhance the soil, maybe as gas to be breathed. Some of those molecules will go to help form a growing life. In this way we are all made of dead things.

Its nice to know that at least a part of your being will help develop new life.

It goes further. In time our planet will be vaporised, every single atom will eventually float free in the universe. Some of those atoms could help form a new sun that will shine on its planets which will be made from some of earths atoms and may develop life.

Who needs nothing, who needs heaven and hell when you have facts?

 

[ChristineM]

The brain won't realize anything, the soul will.
The soul is responsible for consciousness in this life since it animates the body and brain.
The soul is not the mind but it operates through the mind.
When we die the soul leaves the dead body it goes to the spiritual world where it takes on a spiritual body.
Full consciousness is retained in the afterlife and we continue to go about our business as we did in this world, absent the physical body..

Ahh so you have evidence of said soul?

Ok, very good

 

[Trailblazer]

I think we cannot continue our business without our bodyes, but we can continue our states of consciousness...

That depends upon what you mean by business.
What do you think we will do with consciousness, just be conscious....forever.... and not do anything?

 

[Trailblazer]

Ahh so you have evidence of said soul?

Ok, very good

I have evidence but no proof.
The soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel, as Baha'u'llah said.

 

[ChristineM]

Information about the afterlife comes through scriptures. Information also comes and mediums who receive communication from the spiritual world (also referred to as the next world, since it is where we go next).

Scripture is not evidence.

Clairvoyance is a con

 

[ChristineM]

I have evidence but no proof.
The soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel, as Baha'u'llah said.

What god?
What heaven?

 

[r2d2009]

That depends upon what you mean by business.
What do you think we will do with consciousness, just be conscious....forever.... and not do anything?

Сonsciousness forever...
We can only remain in a state of peace and bliss, in unity with the Primordial Higher Consciousness ...
But this is not exactly "do nothing."

 

[r2d2009]

The New Upanishad.
Structure and Cognition of the Absolute

........................

Let us begin our analysis of the chart by looking at its bottom, which represents the deepest level of the multidimensional space.

In the universal voidApostle Philip, a disciple of Jesus Christ, called it*) and (higher on the chart) to more dense layers of akasha — to the lokas of protopurusha and protoprakriti. These three basic layers are called correspondingly chidakasha, chitakasha, and bhutakasha.

To the left of the Mirror, the chart shows the derivatives of the basic states of the Absolute: the lokas of Brahman (Higher Purusha), of purusha, and of prakriti. They exist only during Kalpas in manifested worlds of the universe — on "islets" of the Creation, which appear at the beginning of each Kalpa and disappear at its end being consumed by akasha. When "the end of the world" (Pralaya) comes for such an "islet", its matter turns into protoprakriti, and individual souls, who did not want or did not manage during their numerous incarnations to achieve Perfection (i.e. to achieve Divinity and to merge with the Consciousness of the Higher and of the Highest Purusha) are disintegrated to the state of protopurusha.

Let me note that during Kalpas (i.e. during existence of material "islets" of the Creation), the amount of prakriti grows (thanks to photosynthesis, among other processes) and the amount of purusha grows as well (because of the increase of the amount of energy of individual souls, which feed on prakriti). At the end of a Kalpa they replenish the cosmic resources of protoprakriti and protopurusha. Therefore, the amounts of the latter do not change significantly.

All that is shown on the chart above the first level represents the "sphere of activity" of Brahman or "Brahman's world" (in Sanskrit — aparabrahman, i.e. that which is not Divine Brahman).

Now let us look at the leftmost column on the chart. It shows states of souls during a Kalpa. Souls of different levels of subtlety-coarseness (in terms of emotional states in which they used to live during incarnations) are distributed over the layers of multidimensional space. The layer of subtler energy (the second layer on the chart) is called paradise, and the coarsest layer (the topmost one on the chart) is called hell. The layer between them contains souls in the intermediate state of being attached to the material plane. Most often this layer is called the astral plane.

.........................

Completed text:
The New Upanishad. Structure and Cognition of the Absolute

 

[Duke_Leto]

We cannot understand what the spiritual world will be like so we cannot understand how someone might not realize they were dead. The book explains it as best as it can be explained.

That said, I do not necessarily believe everything in the book because it is not scriptural, but it seems plausible since it does not contradict my religious beliefs.

The existence of unicorns doesn’t contradict your religious beliefs, I assume. If I told you they lived on Mars, there’d still be no reason to believe me.

 

[dianaiad]

I post to lots of atheists who think I am ridiculous for believing in an afterlife because there is no “proof.” There is no proof but there is a lot of evidence of the afterlife, they just don’t LIKE the evidence.

If/when I see these atheists on the other side, many of whom have become my friends, I am going to try not to rub it in.

Well, you are a better person than I am. I'll rub it in. Once. Then of course we are all going to be too busy figuring out what 'comes next' to indulge in 'I told you so's" (assuming, of course, that there IS an afterlife....)

 

[Nakosis]

Boy are you going to be surprised when you die and realize you are not dead.

There is a book I am reading entitled The Afterlife Revealed and some spirits who communicated mediums reported that some people who did not believe there was an afterlife will die and still think they are alive on earth. They may go on for days, weeks, months or years, in earth time, believing that, until they finally realize they are D-E-A-D.

Kind of scary.

On the other hand, I am not sure exactly how accurate all these communications are as I can only really believe what has been revealed in the scriptures of my religion. There isn’t much written, which is why I read other books on the subject.

One thing I know is that we will have a form of some kind and we will be fully conscious, more conscious than we were in the physical body. Unfortunately those who were not prepared might be very confused for a long time. I cannot say what will happen after that, only God knows.

Really doesn't matter to me. I just make know assumptions about knowing what I don't know. If there is some kind of existence after we die, great. If not, no one is going to know about it.

Sure, lots of books to read. Lots of different beliefs about what happens after we die. Pick any belief you want. Any one is as likely to be right or wrong since none can really be validated.

Just amazes me that folks go about claiming knowledge they don't have.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't believe in reincarnation.

Me either.

I have no recollection of past lives, and even if I did , I can't prove it nor would that really matter once I die. Once the person that you think you are dies, its over. Finneto.

So there's rebirth that I consider. At least a form of it.

There still remains the indisputable fact that you actually came out of the abyss when the eyes opened. There's no denying that it can happen because it just did when you were born. Since it happened once, there is no reason that it can't happen again at some point. After all things are eternal. So I chalk it up as an educated guess, and that I am indeed living an afterlife this very moment.

My thoughts more so tend to be when and where and how before the eyes open again. A year after my death,,? or 50 billion gazillion bigbang's later? Who knows, but the odds are definitely at 1. It's exciting and terrifying at the same time.

 

[JJ50]

When I die I hope that is it, end of story, I have no wish of an afterlife.

 

[Hawkins]

The existence of unicorns doesn’t contradict your religious beliefs, I assume. If I told you they lived on Mars, there’d still be no reason to believe me.

It can contradict. There's no serious testimonies about the encounter of an unicorn. A religion on the other hand, can have valid testimonies.

If you want you testimony of seeing unicorn to be valid, you need to first have eyewitnesses to see how you can reach Mars. It' better for the eyewitnesses to martyr themselves to backup their testimonies on seeing you arriving on Mars.

Religions are not always about a wild and baseless claim, it's about testimonies which are possible to be valid!