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Featured The Great Deception of Christianity - Departing the Faith (the Word)

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by 3rdAngel, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    You are referencing your own threads? Are you kidding me?

    Israel is an old, old name dating back to the Ugaritic texts long before Abraham..

    The “ra” in Is ra el comes from the same primitive root as the “ra” in Sa ra h’s name .

    Are you grafted on to Israel or replaced Israel?

    What is replacement theology? | CARM.org
    https://carm.org/questions-replacement-theology
    Replacement theology
    is also known as supersessionism which means that the Christian church has superseded Israel in God's plan.
     
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  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    What? You quoting CARM does not supersede me quoting scripture. Replacement theology is only a term used by those who do not believe the scriptures IMO. Did you want to show in any of the scriptures provided from the linked posts below why you believe what I have shared with you is not true and if it is true why do you not believe it?

    1. What is the origin of the name of Israel and what does it mean?
    2. Who are those identified as God's Israel in the new covenant?
    3. Are gentiles grafted in to God's Israel?
    4. What about the nation of Israel?
    5. What about the Sabbath and Israel?

    Everything provided here is God's Word not mine. What is it you do not believe?
    The name "ISRAEL" is only a name given by God to represent all those who claim to believe and follow God's Word. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in God's new covenant promise of a new heart through faith to love. *HEBREWS 8:10-12 :)
     
    #162 3rdAngel, Feb 18, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
  3. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Israel was the name God gave Jacob. The Church doesn't replace Israel and we aren't "grafted" on to Israel.
     
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  4. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Your confused. Who said the church replaces ISRAEL? The church is ISRAEL and always has been in the old testament and the new testament. ISRAEL is defined in the scriptures as all those who profess to believe and follow God's Word. You cannot show what I have shared from the scriptures in relation to ISRAEL is not true can you. If you cannot why do you not believe God's Word?

    HEBREWS 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

    If you are not a part of God's ISREAL you have no part in the new covenant promise of a new heart to love.

    Hope this helps :)
     
    #164 3rdAngel, Feb 18, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    From what I have seen in your OP, you seem to do the very thing you are accuse others of doing. I believe the scriptures call this a beam that needs to be removed from your own eyes, before taking the splinters from the eyes of others.
     
    #165 3rdAngel, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Your post here only shows you have not been reading the OP. If you did you would not have written this IMO. :)
     
  7. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Have you ever ASKED a Jewish person what the letter to the Hebrews means?

    No way the Church is Israel.

    Consider the following.

    Initially, the reformer Martin Luther was sympathetic to the Jews and believed that they would be converted by the truth of his message of justification by faith. When they didn’t convert, he became deeply embittered against the Jewish people. In consequence, Luther became as severe as the Roman Church in his contempt. Luther advocated the expulsion of Jews from Germany as well as the destruction of their synagogues and religious books. In his pamphlet On the Jews and Their Lies, published in Wittenberg, 1543, he wrote3:

    “First their synagogues should be set on fire and whatever is left be buried in the dirt so that no one may be able to see a stone or cinder from it … Jewish prayer books should be destroyed … then the Jewish people should be dealt with, their homes smashed and destroyed. Jews should be banned from the roads and markets, should be drafted into forced labor and made to earn their bread ‘by the sweat of their noses’…”

    continued

    Replacement Theology: Fact or Fiction?
     
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  8. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, me posting you scriptures that your refusing to address the scriptures in the linked posts proving from scripture alone who God's ISRAEL is in the new covenant and you posting someones stories is not relevant to the conversation or the scriptures posted that I believe prove why you are in error.

    If you disagree with the scriptures posted that show the Church of the old and new testament are God's professed ISRAEL please show why from the scriptures (links below).

    1. What is the origin of the name of Israel and what does it mean?
    2. Who are those identified as God's Israel in the new covenant?
    3. Are gentiles grafted in to God's Israel?
    4. What about the nation of Israel?
    5. What about the Sabbath and Israel?

    If you cannot I believe your only denying God's Word not mine so your argument is with God not me and we will have to agree to disagree :)
     
    #168 3rdAngel, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. Of course you would say this. I believe sharing the prophetic scriptures is not shouting venom unless they show one is guilty of what the scriptures condemn at which time it is God's Spirit that does the condemning to those who feel condemned when they read the scriptures. This reaction can be taken in two ways. 1. The person can believe Gods' Word and count it a blessing and follow it or 2. Harden their heart and close their eyes and ears from seeing and heaing God's Word so they can be healed as written in ISAIAH 6:9-10; MATTHEW 13:14-16; ACTS 28:25-27. The thread is only a study in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation supported by History. For me, I believe God's people are in every Church. I also believe the scriptures teach Christianity has fallen away from God and his Word and God is calling his people out from following man made treaditions and teachings that break the commandments of God back to the pure Word of God. Many are called it is written but few will hear the call and be the chosen.
     
    #169 3rdAngel, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  10. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I understand that. Perhaps I should have addressed by response to Peter, but he's not here, and it was you who quoted them, so they become your words as well.

    No, Roman numerals are not numerology, but numerology can be done in any number system, and numerology is what you offered the thread. I don't mind. I deal with it like all of the rest of theology.

    Assigning numeric values to the letters in a word, adding them up, and showing that they add to 666 is numerology unless you think like I do that that means nothing. If you see significance there, as if a god or something else were trying to tell you something, then you're into numerology, which is just a variation on astrology, except using words and numbers in place of the positions of stars.

    And I believe that is false. I believe that I understand what the scriptures say better than believers for reasons already given. I have no need to sanitize them and try to make them sensible or morally sound. I'm free to say that the flood story is a story of moral and intellectual failure on the part of the god depicted, and that is exactly what it is with all of that unnecessary cruelty and the idea that this mistake would be corrected using the same breeding stock. You are not free to even consider that much less believe it, so which of us can give the better interpretation of that story?

    I'm also free to tell you that earth does not contain enough water to submerge all of its mountains, and that if it did, they'd be submerged now. You won't get that from a believer. They simply don't allow themselves to think like that.

    And then they try to disqualify the opinions of those who see what they cannot or will not by simply claiming that those unbelievers who don't agree with you are wrong without ever provifding any evidence or argument.

    And I'll bet that your Bible is the only book about which you would make that claim. If I read the Iliad (in English) and gave an opinion about the words of Hector or Achilles contained therein with which you disagreed, which would be very unlikely as simple English is easy for either of us to understand, you'd merely give your contrary opinion along with a reason for holding it rather than all of this talk about powers of discernment and who does or does not have them. It's your attempt to disqualify dissenting opinion, and I'm pretty sure that you don't do that with any other book.

    No, it is you that does not understand biblical scripture. You lack the power of discernment because you have a faith-based confirmation bias encasing your mind and deforming your judgment. It shows you what you want to see - an accurate and internally cohesive tale of a loving god, but that is not what the words depict.

    You don't know God, either. Nobody does. The God of the Christian Bible is logically impossible by virtue of being said to possess mutually exclusive properties at the same time such as being perfect, yet making errors that it regrets. Therefore, this god cannot exist - another truth you won't get from any believer.

    What you know is what you have been told and believed, and you have no reason to believe it, but do anyway.

    Yes, but it isn't necessary to believe anything without evidence. One can train oneself to think critically and eschew faith-based thought entirely. We can believe that astronomy is valid knowledge and astrology not based on evidence.

    Any other belief would be faith-based (both valid, neither valid, only astrology valid). It is perfectly possible to shape one's thinking so that only the evidence-supported belief is held and the others rejected.

    Many faith-based thinkers seem to be unaware of this other way of processing information and deciding what is true about the world, and believe that everybody is thinking by faith like they are. They're the ones that tell us that our evidence-based beliefs are only faith like theirs.
     
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  11. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Your understanding of Daniel and Revelation is tainted by Scofield. Take them as they are without embellishment.
     
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    1. I believe they never had it.
     
  13. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe now you are incorrect. Any church I have ever been in had the scriptures. What they do with them is a different story.
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it is more like live and let die. The wages of sin is death.
     
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense! I believe you should get your facts right before posting. The official language of the Roman Catholic Church is LATIN. Roman numerals use letters of the latin alphabet that assign numerical values and was the official counting system used throughout the ancient Roman Empire and the Roman Catholic Church and was used for counting and mathematics. (Wiki; MathWorld; MathisFun; Study.com; Roman Mathamatics).

    The Roman numerals are a numerical system composed of seven Latin letters (Wictionary).

    Post # 14 linked is using LATIN numerical values from the title of the Roman Catholic Church popes names which are written in LATIN from which Roman numerals are derived.

    REVELATION 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six (666).

    666 THE NUMBER OF A MAN - NUMBER OF A MAN

    Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church which uses the Latin Vulgate Bible. Roman numerals are used to calculate the Beast's number which is the number of a man that equals 666.

    ................

    LATIN NAMES AND THE POPE TITLE USING ROMAN NUMERALS


    The ancient Greek word for "the Latin speaking man" is
    LATEINOS

    L = 30 lambda
    A = 1 alpha
    T = 300 tau
    E = 5 epsilon
    I = 10 iota
    N = 50 nu
    O = 70 omicron
    S = 200 sigma
    ------------
    666

    The ancient Greek for"The Latin Kingdom" is
    HE LATINE BASILEIA Strong's # G932

    H = 0 (transliterated)
    E = 8 eta

    L = 30 lambda
    A = 1 alpha
    T = 300 tau
    I = 10 iota
    N = 50 nu
    E = 8 eta

    B = 2 beta
    A = 1 alpha
    S = 200 sigma
    I = 10 iota
    L = 30 lambda
    E = 5 epsilon
    I = 10 iota
    A = 1 alpha
    ------------
    666

    And in ancient Greek the word
    APOSTATES

    A = 1 alpha
    P = 80 pi
    O = 70 omicron
    ST = 6 stigma*
    A = 1 alpha
    T = 300 tau
    E = 8 eta
    S = 200 sigma
    ------------
    666

    * Stigma is a now obsolete Greek character, but it appears in the New Testament in Rev 13:18 to give the value 666 (chi xi stigma - See Strong's Concordance, # G5516).

    And in ancient Greek the word for "tradition" PARADOSIS Strong's # G3862

    P = 80 pi
    A = 1 alpha
    R = 100 rho
    A = 1 alpha
    D = 4 delta
    O = 70 omicron
    S = 200 sigma
    I = 10 iota
    S = 200 sigma
    ------------
    666

    ..................

    Popes titles in Latin: VICARIUS FILII DEI (in place of the Son of God)
    112 + 53 + 501 = 666

    Popes titles in Latin: Dux Cleri (Captain of the Clergy)
    515 + 151 = 666

    Popes titles in Latin: LUDOVICUS (Vicar of the court)
    Adds up to 666

    Hebrew word for "Roman kingdom" ROMITH
    Adds up to 666

    Hebrew word for "Roman man" ROMITI
    Adds up to 666

    As can be shown above I believe the number of the beast is the number of a man as the scriptures teach that adds up to 666 once again points to the title of the POPE and the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH (Source; Biblelight)

    Please get your facts right before posting. Roman numerals used in mathematics is not numerology (see also Numerology.com) which uses a different counting systems with each number having a different meaning and is based in the occult. What you have posted here has no truth in it.

    Hope this is helpful
     
    #175 3rdAngel, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  16. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Okay, hold on a second. I'm confused. Who are you saying is going to live and who are you saying is going to die? Personally, I believe we're all sinners, but that through Christ, we're all going to live. I'm just not comfortable with people bashing any religion, and I'm particularly turned off by Christians who bash other Christians' beliefs. Catholics don't seem to do that much; that's all I'm saying. So what are you saying?
     
  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Your response..
    You did not address anything though. You may need to explain yourself a little better as I do not understand your point here.
    Your response...
    I am sorry I do not believe you or any of the reasons you have given. We will have to agree to disagree.
    You are free to believe and say as you wish. I believe however even in relation to the flood that I can provide evidence that there was a flood. There is no biblical mention of the floods havnig to reach the tips of the highest mountain on which there would be no life. The flood was only done according to the scriptures to put an end to wicked life. So the mountain thing is a red herring IMO. If you want yo start up another thread and post on it send me a link
    Well the difference here is that I believe the bible is the Word of God and supersedes the teachings and traditions of men and as posted earlier if the teachings of men contradicts the words of God they are simply foolishness. This is our difference. You do not believe in God or his Word so they are foolishness to you. I believe in God and his Word and believe the wisdom of the world is foolishness with God and those who do not know God cannot know his Word.
    Sorry this is your opinion because you do not know God therefore you do not understand His Word so for you there is only contradictions and ambiguities because you do not know the scriptures. For me I see no evidence of this only misinterpretation and misrepresentation of the scriptures because you do not know God.
    Not at all. I never came to an understanding of the scriptures by following a church.
    Your response...
    Who says there is no evidence? I believe there is no definitive evidence to prove or disprove God. If there was either way believers and unbelievers would cease to live by faith. However that does not mean there is no evidence for the believer. Those who beleive in God have personal evidence in their personal experience in the revelation of God. This is personal evidence. While external evidence can be seen all around the would in the collective witness of all those who have had similar experiences not only in this present time to around 1/3 of the worlds population, but all through time since the beginning of time there has always been those who have known God IMO. Just because science has not found something does not mean it is not there

    Nice talking to you :)
     
    #177 3rdAngel, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    According to the scripture, I believe no one is going to live if they have been given a knowledge of the truth and and reject God's Word and continue in known unrepentant sin *ACTS 17:30-31; HEBREWS 10:26-27
     
  19. coconut theology

    coconut theology coconuts for Jesus

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    Hebrews, was written to Jews who wanted to follow the Messiah (which is Jesus Christ). Why would we ask so called 'Jews' (modern) who reject their Messiah, and even placed a curse upon Daniel's time prophecies?

    "... The Gemara asks: What is the meaning of the phrase “And it declares [veyafe’aḥ] of the end, and does not lie”? Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani says that Rabbi Yonatan says: May those who calculate the end of days be cursed [tippaḥ], as they would say once the end of days that they calculated arrived and the Messiah did not come, that he will no longer come at all. Rather, the proper behavior is to continue to wait for his coming, as it is stated: “Though it tarry, wait for it.” Lest you say we are expectantly awaiting the end of days and the Holy One, Blessed be He, is not awaiting the end of days and does not want to redeem His people, the verse states: “And therefore will the Lord wait, to be gracious to you; and therefore will He be exalted, to have mercy upon you; for the Lord is a God of judgment; happy are all they who wait for Him” (Isaiah 30:18). ..." - Sanhedrin 97b:9

    Maimonidies (1135-1204 AD) confirms such a curse:

    “Similarly, one should not try to calculate the appointed time [for the coming of Mashiach]. Our Sages declared: [Sanhedrin 97b] ‘May the spirits of those who attempt to calculate the final time [of Mashiach's coming] expire!’ Rather, one should await [his coming] and believe in the general conception of the matter, as we have explained.” [Chapter 12 of Hilchos Melachim from the Mishneh Torah of the RaMBaM]​
     
    #179 coconut theology, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. I have only provided my own study of the scriptures here and I believe I have let the scriptures interpret themselves as no prophecy is of any private interpretation. Your not able to deny this or are you able to show what has been shared here is not true except to provide your own words and opinions that I believe and have shown why are not biblical. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
     
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