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Featured The Gospel of John Claims that Jesus is God

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by 74x12, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    I understand the point you are trying to make, but the Gospel was penned by an unknown author after the death of the Apostles.

    It is always possible that a copier made a mistake.
     
  2. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    And what makes you think that the gospel of Luke was penned by an unknown author?
     
  3. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    The authors' names were attributed by the Church, with the exception of John who does name himself.
     
  4. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    And which church do you refer too?
     
  5. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    The one that selected and canonized them.
     
  6. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Oh! You mean the church that claims to be the shepherd of Gods people which was raised up in the land after the Lord had abandoned the Jews. The popes who claim to sit in the throne of Christ and are in fact Christ in the flesh.

    Popes who claim to be God
     
  7. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    God has never abandon the Jews,
     
  8. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    As God drove the 10 lost tribes from the promised land and dispersed them throughout the world, so too did he drive the Jews from their land in 70 AD. Although he is now gathering them back in preparation of the war that will end all wars.
     
  9. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    The capitol G GOD in the last line of John 1:1 = error. The Father was called-HO THEOS( The God) in the nt, like in the 2nd line of John 1:1 Plain Theos was in the last line. It was NOT calling the Logos The God. a god is correct. Meaning--- has godlike qualities Because did it all through Jesus( Acts 2:22) Jesus gives all credit to his God and Father-John 5:30)--Jesus calls the Father--( one who sent Jesus( John 5:30)John 17:3--THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Proving the above is accurate.
    Paul teaches the same-1Cor 8:6--There is one God to all the Father.
     
  10. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    You are mistaken-Matthew23:37-39
     
  11. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I see Baha'u'llah has now explained the connection of God and His Messengers in great detail.

    I see Baha'u'llah (Glory of God), is the Father of the New Testament and Jehovah of the Torah, promised in all scriptures, to come at the end of ages. Thus Christ has returned as the Father.

    John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

    Matthew 11:27"All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

    Thus Christ the Son, is Baha'u'llah the Father, no one has seen God. Both Christ and Baha'u'llah are Messengers from God just as Muhammad corrected the Christain doctrine that had made Christ God, as told to us in the Quran in this way;

    "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah,and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs." (4:171, Yusif Ali)

    Regards Tony
     
  12. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Your evil, twisted theology proves nothing.
     
  13. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    A denunciation of Pharisaic Judaism doesn't mean that God has abandoned the Jews.
     
  14. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    Reality--The Israelite religious leaders have outright refused to do Matthew 23:39 for over 2000 years. The Israelites follow them.
    The renting of the banner, the precise moment Jesus died signified the cutting off.
    Do you think they will do verse 39?
     
  15. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    My OP remains unchallenged. Just offering a counter point doesn't mean you've actually addressed my argument. It's just two people trying to talk over each other.

    You misunderstand Paul in 1 Corinthians 8:6. He claims there is one Theos for us(the church) the Father. So how do you have two Theos?

    You interpret John 1:1 as speaking of two separate Theos. So you have two Theos for the church instead of one like Paul teaches.
     
  16. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    This speech reflects an opposition that goes beyond that of Jesus’ ministry and must be seen as expressing the bitter conflict between Pharisaic Judaism and the church of Matthew at the time when the gospel was composed. The complaint often made that the speech ignores the positive qualities of Pharisaism and of its better representatives is true, but the complaint overlooks the circumstances that gave rise to the insult. Nor is the speech purely anti-Pharisaic. The evangelist discerns in his church many of the same faults that he finds in its opponents and warns his fellow Christians to look to their own conduct and attitudes.
     
  17. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    This sort of assertion is one of the reasons that I don't believe that Christians know any more about the divine than I do.

    Mistaking "John (whoever that is) says that Jesus claimed this." for "Jesus claimed..." demonstrates to me that your beliefs are based on human authority, not God. And also that you don't recognize that fact.
    Tom
     
  18. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Well we do put some trust in the messengers of God. As it was prophesied how beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring the gospel. And again God said of them, they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. So if you want to hear God then you hear them. They're His messengers the ambassadors of Christ. God speaks through them and even me also sometimes and everyone who speaks the truth of God.

    If you're Christian you have no choice but to believe in prophecy and the existence of truth and a God who speaks and that's how we have the scriptures.

    But, if the holy Spirit in us didn't affirm the truth of the scriptures then we'd have a problem. But the holy Spirit assures us of the truth. So thats why I believe the Bible.
     
  19. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    Actually the Father was called-HO THEOS in greek. Jesus never was called HO THEOS( THE GOD) just plain theos= a god. It did not call the Logos-Ho THEOS.
     
  20. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    The reason God sent Jesus was with a new covenant= LOVE--- lacking by the Israelite religious leaders. Don't get me wrong. they loved their families and friends, so did Adolf. Its not the love Jesus spoke of. That love goes to ones enemies as well.
     
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