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Featured The Good Bad & Ugly

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by nPeace, Dec 24, 2020.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    What specifically, if anything, do you find good [​IMG], bad [​IMG], ugly [​IMG], about the Bible?
    I'll start... Love.

    In the Tanakh we find these commands...
    (Leviticus 19:18) . . .You must not take vengeance nor hold a grudge against the sons of your people, and you must love your fellow man as yourself. I am Jehovah.
    (Proverbs 25:21, 22) 21 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; If he is thirsty, give him water to drink, 22 For you will be heaping burning coals on his head, And Jehovah will reward you.

    What does that mean though... What does it mean to love your fellowman?
    Does it mean love him to have the freedom to indiscriminately murder?
    For example, if your neighbor seeks to take an axe to your head, or he takes an axe to another's head, does loving one's neighbor mean that you should pat him on the back, and say, "I love you. Do what you want." Or should we go bring a glass of water, and say, "Here ... Drink this."?

    I would say, trying to reason with someone, in the hope that they do not carry out their murderous intent, is a good thing, but is there a reasonable balance, where love for one's fellowman is concerned?
    I would say, understanding what love is, can give us the correct answer.

    From the Bible, love is described, not as an emotion, but an action.
    At 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, it says that love is patient and kind, but it also says, love does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.
    It is clear that there is a balance, where love requires justice - for the murdered, and their families, the raped victim, and their family, the mugged old lady, and her family, etc.

    So if your neighbor takes an axe to someone's head, and seeks to take off your head, love would cause you to act justly. [​IMG]
    This is what God's law in the Tanakh required. (Numbers 35:15-34)

    To me, this is a very good thing about the Bible.
    The Bible strongly recommends... in fact, commands love, and love is closely connected to justice, and righteousness.
    So that God's love move him to act justly against unrighteousness.
    Of Jesus, the scriptures say, "You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness." (Hebrews 1:9)
    There is reasonable balance.

    The evidence that God is love, and how he displayed that quality, in a balanced way, is one very good thing about the Bible. (1 John 4:8)

    Are there other good things about the Bible?
    Are there bad, and ugly things?
    What specific things can you share.
     
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  2. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Good thing about the Bible: placing an emphasis on charity and devotion to others.

    Bad thing about the Bible: it's sexism, it's calls to genocidal violence toward it's enemies, it's fetichism of suffering

    Ugly thing abot the Bible: it's support for authoritarianism, it's doctrine of original sin, it's messianic doctrine, it's on and off support of ritual magic
     
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  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    What I like about the Bible are the actual teachings of Jesus that guide our footsteps in this life and prepare us for the next life.

    For example, I like what Jesus said about not loving our life in this world, and I like what He said about denying self and losing our life in this world. This is very similar to what Baha'u'llah wrote. :)

    John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

    Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    I also like what Jesus said about not building our houses on sand. :)

    Matthew 7:24-27 Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.

    Of course, that is a parable. Baha'u'llah said something very similar and He explained what it means in the first paragraph below.

    “For every one of you his paramount duty is to choose for himself that on which no other may infringe and none usurp from him. Such a thing—and to this the Almighty is My witness—is the love of God, could ye but perceive it.

    Build ye for yourselves such houses as the rain and floods can never destroy, which shall protect you from the changes and chances of this life. This is the instruction of Him Whom the world hath wronged and forsaken.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 261
     
    #3 Trailblazer, Dec 24, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  4. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    I see it that way also. Love as an action is also present in other religions and secular humanism as well.

    What the Bible could do without is extraneous cruft. There's a lot of history, mythology and obsolete text. What Joshua did or did not do in Jericho has nothing to do with the law of love in action for example.
     
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  5. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Sexism? Can you be any more specific than just, sexism?
    Please consider that not everyone will see what you see. I certainly don't.

    I assume by genocidal violence, you mean where God was determined to wipe out whole nations.
    One who agrees with what love is, cannot claim that an act is genocidal violence, when it involves true justice.
    Why did God wipe out nations? Was he acting contrary to love, justice, and righteousness?
    (Exodus 23:23) For my angel will go ahead of you and will bring you to the Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites, and I will annihilate them.

    (Exodus 34:11) “Pay attention to what I am commanding you today. Here I am driving out from before you the Amʹor·ites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites.

    (Leviticus 18:24, 25, 27-29) 24 “‘Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for it is by all these things that the nations that I am driving out from before you have made themselves unclean. 25 Therefore, the land is unclean, and I will bring punishment on it for its error, and the land will vomit its inhabitants out.
    27 For all these detestable things were done by the men who lived in the land before you, and now the land is unclean. 28 Then the land will not have to vomit you out for defiling it in the same way that it will vomit out the nations that were before you.
    29 If anyone does any of these detestable things, all those doing them must be cut off from among their people.
    So do you disagree with love, and the reasonable balance mentioned in the OP?

    Specifically what "fetishism of suffering" are you referring to please.

    Ugly to you, they are, I suppose.
    They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
     
  6. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    The Good: Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

    The Bad: Condoning slavery. Condoning genocide. Condoning the subjugation of women.

    The Ugly: How believing that the bible is the word of god can cause otherwise decent people to actually try and justify the bible condoning slavery, genocide, and the subjugation of women.
     
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  7. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The good: it has some very thought-provoking stories, parables, songs, proverbs, etc., that can help us focus on important, universal, and significant issues regarding the human experience.

    The bad: it's very disorganized, like a magnet that picked up and held onto whatever metal bits it happened to come by in it's travels. It makes it difficult to derive a holistic understanding of it's 'wisdom'. Which is why people interpret it in so many very different ways.

    The ugly: it has captured and passed on some of our worst ideas, attitudes, and biases, as well as some of our best.
     
  8. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I see in your first comment, you specifically mentioned two quotation as found in the Bible.
    In your other two comments you mentioned nothing specific in the Bible, so I think that's a que to ignore what you claim based on your opinionated viewpoint..
     
    #8 nPeace, Dec 24, 2020
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  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I'm ignoring all posts that are not specific... i.e. referring to particular accounts or Biblical passages, since what one may think is not always what is written, and I don't know how to begin addressing what one thinks, if it doesn't relate to anything I read in the Bible.
    For example, when one says the Bible condones the subjugating of women, how do I guess what they have in their mind, and I don't have a scripture to go by, that agrees with that.

    Outside of that, everything else about the Bible, is just one's opinion, and not very meaningful for debate.

    I hope you understand. I sad in the OP, "what specifically"... but it's probably my mistake, since I said about the Bible.
    I should probably also have have said, what specifically in the Bible.

    I don't mind you saying for example, the bad l find about the Bible is that it's confusing.
    That's fine. That's good. That's your opinion. I can't debate that, but when you say, the bad I find in the Bible, is that God is cruel, or women are ill treated, or treated as a lesser human, or things like that, you have claimed to be referring to things inside the book, and you need to specify examples, passages, etc. So that I know what you are talking about, since it may be a misunderstanding, which does happen.

    I hope you understand.
    My apologies for not being clear.
     
  10. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing your opinion about the Bible.
    I don't find it disorganized at all. It's very harmonious, well organized, coherent, and brilliantly explained. It is quite understandable, even to the youngest teenaged Bible student.
    People interpret and misinterpret everything - including government laws and legislations.
    That has nothing to do with what is written.
     
  11. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Don't be silly. Just because I don't want to take the time to find the specific quotes doesn't mean they're not there. In fact I'm quite certain that I've pointed them out to you in previous discussions. The bible very clearly states that people are allowed to own other people as property. It tells you where you can buy your slaves from. It states that they are your property for life and that you can pass them on to your heirs. It even says you're allowed to beat your slaves, just as long as they don't happen to die as a result of the beating within a couple of days.

    If you claim that your bible doesn't say this then you clearly haven't even read it. Not surprising that it's your 'que to ignore it' because you know that there's no moral defense for it.
     
  12. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
    Slavery was thoroughly discussed in the thread Slavery, and no one has shown me why it's an injustice to use prisoners as laborers.
    So until then, it stands as righteous and just, for a king to use his captives as workers, to feed them, and supply their needs... especially if the king gives them more than they deserve - rest, and freedom to partake in joyful occasions.

    Next.
    Genocide.

    Subjugating women. I have no clue what you are talking about.

    Thank you for sharing your opinion on how you feel about people who believe the Bible. However, the OP deals with the Bible. People who use the Bible behave good, and treat others well. People who read the Bible, behave bad, and treat others badly. Blaming the Bible for the conduct of both seem a bit odd, unless the Bible is "double tongued", and I don't find it is, so that's another debate in itself.
     
  13. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    The Bible is a poetically unifying work of literature that people get immersed in. Creates a goodwill community of fraternity and social structure and is fine as long as things don't get out of control.

    However the bad entails its extremely weak view of historical events that combines real names and places with a false narrative that some find as a credible source. Its misleading and places a false trust in something that never happened in real life leading to false expectations.

    The ugly, is as ugly as it gets, givin the real world death and destruction that it produces through people as well as those who do the crazy and insane in order to prove what cannot be proven.

    Like terrorism, snake handling and drinking poison to name a few, followed by numerous domestic and cult tragedys that sporadically plays out with tragic consequences that tie in with the Bible. People can and do horrible things in its name.
     
  14. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    The fact that men hold a position of authority over women on the basis of their gender (aka the "headship" position). The idea that men should do X and women should do Y and derogation to those roles can be punished by death. The fact that men can occupy position of power and authority even when it concern question of faith (priesthood) while women can't. The fact that men can inherit title and land. The fact that women can be sold into slavery by their husband or father to cover for debts. The fact that women cannot take loans. The fact that women have an inferior legal status and that damage against a woman is considered less important than damage to a man. The legality of polygamy and concubines, but the illegality of polyandry and male sexual servants. The presence and legality of arranged marriage, child marriage and crimes of adultery. Every single thing the women's right movements had to fight for to gain a semblance of equality with men in the last two centuries was supported by the Bible.

    I consider the fact that anybody that order his flock to massacre children and defenceless elders, rape and enslave virgin girls, massacre non-combatant women, destroy their culture and kill their cattle out of pure spite and not to feed oneself to be a monster and anybody trying to make excuses or "whitewash" such genocidal call is equally a monster like we haven't seen since the dark days of nazism and the khmer rouge.


    The redemption doctrine of intercessory sacrifice, the acetism of christian doctrine, the Passion and cult of martyrdom, the practice of ritual mortification, the extreme pacifism stance defended in some part of the Bible, the idea that "the last on this world, shall be the first in heaven" doctrine.
     
    #14 epronovost, Dec 25, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2020
  15. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Merry Christmas.... :)
    Yes!
    I am most interested in all the laws of Moses, although I notice that some are way out of date now.

    Sure....... those 'out of date' laws which extremists still grasp to today whilst ignoring all the good ones.


    These are what I call the 'Poor Laws' and if these were ALL still law today, and adapted for today's commerce, industry, travel and retail trades there wouldn't be people sleeping out rough (and some dying) on these frozen mornings.
    I like the way that somebody put their own short description on to these laws, they make for easier reading. If you prefer the exact writings then please do look 'em up. :)

    THE POOR!
    Well-to-do are required to lend to the poor (Ex. 22:24)
    Not to demand from (nor press) a poor man repayment of his debt, when he cannot pay. (Ex.22:24)
    Not to exact a pledge from a debtor by force (Deut. 24:10)
    Not to keep pledges (tools etc) from its owner when he needs them (Deut. 24:12)
    Not to refrain from making a loan to a poor man. (Deut. 15:9)
    Not to take a pledge from a widow (Deut. 24:17)
    Leave corners of fields and orchards for the poor (Lev.19:9 Lev. 23:22)
    Do not gather gleanings but leave them for the poor (Lev. 19:9)
    Not to gather single grapes from the ground (Lev.19:10)
    The second tithes in the 3rd and 6th sabbatical years are for the poor (Deut. 14:28-29)
    Payed up or not, debts will be layed aside in the seventh year (Deut. 15:2)
    Wealthy are obliged to subsidise a poor man (Deut. 15:7)
    Everybody must support the poor according to their means (Deut. 15:11)
    Forgotten sheaves or fruit must be left for the poor (Deut. 24:19 -20)
    Imperfect vines of grapes to be left for the poor (Lev.19:10 Deut. 24:21))
    Don't force a debt be repayed if the poor can't pay (Ex.22:24 Deut. 24:10)
    Not to loan by pledge upon cooking pots, tools, etc (Deut.24:6)
    Lend to widows pledge free (Deut. 24:17)
    Not to afflict an orphan or a widow (Ex. 22:21)
    Not to reap the entire field (Lev. 19:9; Lev. 23:22)
    Not to return to take a forgotten sheaf or fruit. (Deut. 24:19-20)
     
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  16. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    As I said the UGLY part is how normally descent people can try and justify something as disgusting as slavery. The bible does NOT say you can make slaves out of prisoners! It VERY CLEARLY says that you can BUY then from the nations around you.

    New International Version
    "'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

    New Living Translation
    “However, you may purchase male and female slaves from among the nations around you.

    English Standard Version
    As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.

    Berean Study Bible
    Your menservants and maidservants shall come from the nations around you, from whom you may purchase them.

    New American Standard Bible
    'As for your male and female slaves whom you may have-- you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you.

    New King James Version
    And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have—from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves.

    King James Bible
    Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

    Christian Standard Bible
    Your male and female slaves are to be from the nations around you; you may purchase male and female slaves.

    Contemporary English Version
    If you want slaves, buy them from other nations

    Good News Translation
    If you need slaves, you may buy them from the nations around you.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    Your male and female slaves are to be from the nations around you; you may purchase male and female slaves.

    International Standard Version
    "As for your male and maid slaves who will be with you, you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations.

    NET Bible
    "'As for your male and female slaves who may belong to you--you may buy male and female slaves from the nations all around you.

    New Heart English Bible
    "'As for your male and your female slaves, whom you may have; of the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves.

    A Faithful Version
    Both your male slaves, and your female slaves whom you shall have, shall be of the nations that are all around you. You shall buy male slaves and female slaves from them.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    "You may have male and female slaves, but buy them from the nations around you.

    JPS Tanakh 1917
    And as for thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, whom thou mayest have: of the nations that are round about you, of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

    New American Standard 1977
    ‘As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you.

    King James 2000 Bible
    Both your male and female slaves, whom you shall have, shall be of the nations that are round about you; of them shall you buy male and female slaves.

    American King James Version
    Both your slaves, and your bondmaids, which you shall have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall you buy slaves and bondmaids.

    American Standard Version
    And as for thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, whom thou shalt have; of the nations that are round about you, of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

    Brenton Septuagint Translation
    And whatever number of men-servants and maid-servants thou shalt have, thou shalt purchase male and female servants from the nations that are round about thee.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Let your bondmen, and your bondwomen, be of the nations that are round about you.

    Darby Bible Translation
    And as for thy bondman and thy handmaid whom thou shalt have -- of the nations that are round about you, of them shall ye buy bondmen and handmaids.

    English Revised Version
    And as for thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have; of the nations that are round about you, of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    Both thy bond-men, and thy bond-maids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are around you; of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids.

    World English Bible
    "'As for your male and your female slaves, whom you may have; of the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves.

    Young's Literal Translation
    And thy man-servant and thy handmaid whom thou hast are of the nations who are round about you; of them ye buy man-servant and handmaid,
     
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  17. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I didn't realize they proved this. I must have been sleeping at the time. Can you give me this proof, so that I can read it, and not write these comments off as just another opinion.

    ? Real world events that cannot be proven? Here are some.
    These are biblical figures unambiguously identified in contemporary sources according to scholarly consensus.
    I get the feeling though, that you are alluding to miraculous events. Am I correct?
    No one can prove that miracles did, or did not happen, so being dogmatic that they didn't is no different to being dogmatic that they did.
    I believe they happened because of the candidness of the writers; their association with the supernatural, for which there is strong evidence; the evidence of the reliability of the scriptures, etc.
    Why do you believe the miracles did not take place?

    terrorism? snake handling? drinking poison? domestic and cult tragedies that sporadically plays out with tragic consequences that tie in with the Bible?
    Did you put this here just to have it ignored, since I have no idea where you saw these in the Bible?
    I did hear about the spurious text that is found in a few transactions, but those texts are not in many translations, including the one I use, as they are not in the oldest manuscripts of the Bible.
    As regards the other things you mentioned, I don't know if they exists outside your mind. You'd have to show me. Or explain what you mean specifically.

    If you mean what people do, then that's based on what people believe, and the Bible can't be blamed for every action one carries out.
    Anyone can read anything and do what they want. Isn't that so?
    One's opinion, can also be based on one's feelings about a matter. So for example, a parent might teach their child that a particular thing is wrong, and a person who disagrees may view the parent as a fanatic, but that's their opinion.
    The parent may view the person as ignorant. That's an opinion too.

    I can't debate those issues without us agreeing on one standard of judgment.
    If you use a ruler with your own measurements, and I use a different ruler, we won't agree on the correct measure.
    Hope you get what I am saying.
     
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    The Bible allows for both men and women to have authority, but in an orderly way, so you lost me on that one.
    Women were also prophetess.

    Of course you don't think a position of authority is wrong, unless it is government, law enforcement, military, correctional and educational, buisness, etc.?
    Authority also exist in a family. Children are under authority, and they should be order and organization in the home.
    It's no wonder the family structure in this world has broken down... contributing to a disorderly society, since authority is not viewed correctly. Everyone wants to be the driver, and no one wants to be in the passenger's seat. That explains the many "accidents".

    Any organization that is truly organized and orderly, must have authority, even if the ones taking the lead, are not viewed as superior.
    That explains why the arangement Jesus sets in place works so well, and continues to maintain order, unity, and love.
    Sadly, people have to live in a world lacking these.

    That is another good [​IMG] thing about the Bible. It promotes peace, love, and unity in the family, who submits to God's arrangement. - Romans 13:1 ; Ephesians 4:11-16 ; Philippians 2:3-11 ; Matthew 23:8 ; 1 Peter 5:2, 3
    More clarity on that later.

    None of these are facts.
    Both men and women were sold.
    Both men and women were considered important - none lesser or greater.
    Women could secure loans.

    These statements are incoherent and vague assertions with nothing to support them.
    I cannot address these things for which there is no scriptural support.

    I would agree. God did nothing out of pure spite. Nor did he order rape.
    That would be equal to killing animals just to get horns to hang on your wall, rather than to protect lives, or for food.

    Here you are demonstrating that what people consider bad about the Bible, are things they have to make up. So when God tolerates things, he is good. From the time that his mercy has stretch the limit, he is bad. In other words, for God to be good, he must be bad, and pat the wrongdoers on the back and say, "I love you. Do whatever you want."
    That's not love. It's not justice. It's not righteousness.
    It's like the crooked judge who acceps a bribe. People hate the judge once it's their family, but they love him if it's their family.
    God is not like that.

    The only thing God would take into consideration, that would extend his mercy, is how merciful the person proves to be. The heart comes into play.
    That's another good [​IMG] thing about the Bible. It shows how abundant God's mercy is. So that he puts up with crimes for a very long time, and deals with the wicked in a way they don't deserve.
    Job 33:27-30 ; Ezekiel 33:11 ; 2 Peter 3:9 ;
    (Romans 9:22) . . .What, then, if God had the will to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, and he tolerated with much patience vessels of wrath made fit for destruction?

    Standing on the side of justice is a good thing. I'm all for that.

    Incoherent, vague... with a strong opinionated view, and many things that I don't even know about, or believe.
    The salvation teaching is actually a very good teaching, as it has helped so many people, and continue to be a source of comfort, and hope, in the lives of millions of people, who are crushed by the cruel godless people of this world.
    So that is another good [​IMG] thing about the Bible.
    That's three good things coming out of your opinions.

    You have no idea how many more lives would have been lost if it were not for this salvation message, but I do, and I can tell you... this is a fact. .. millions.
    To give you an idea,
    Attendance at the annual Memorial of Christ’s death - 17,844,773
    Take a third of that figure, and consider they include drug addicts, gang members, depressed and suicidal, hopeless...
    Now do the calculation.
    Clearly, millions of lives have benefitted from the salvation message.
     
  19. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Nope, men have authorty over women. It's explicitly mentionned several times in the OT and the NT and confirmed by secular sources on how those society behaved. Women had a certain form of authority, especially over their children, but they were subject to the authority of their husband and father if they were not married.

    And the NT specifically condamns and reject that earlier practice which was also exception and not rule. You are trying to polish a turd there.

    You view of order imposed a regime of violence towards women which is insane and against which women have rebelled. It also imposes an "order" based on gender not based on virtues, skills, common accord or accomplishment. Then again you seem to use "order" in the same way tyrants justify their violence.

    You can always migrate to North Korea, the tribal terrioty of Pakistan or Saudi Arabia to live in a world similar to that in which Jesus was born and raised. It's the closest you will ever experiment to live in the past. Sadly, you might fight it difficult to tolerate the abject poverty this type of "order" breeds

    I refer to you to the incredible damage, especially in terms of sexual violence, this has caused over the decades and still does in the more fundamentalist cults like the quiverfull movement, the fundamentalist Mormon Church and the Jehova Witness.

    Male slaves were sold, as a rule, at twice the rate of female slaves of the same quality. Male Hebrews could be taken into slavery for debts, but had to be released after a maximum of seven years. Female Hebrews could be taken for life.

    Women couldn't get loan since the dotary couldn't be seized (thus no one would accept it as a waranty) and didn't personnaly owned anything else as the product of their work was owned by their husband or father as was everything else (that or it was part of their dowery and thus couldn't be seized or loaned). You had to wait until the 1960's for women to be able to take loans without a man's permission.


    He specifically order the Hebrews to massacre all men, women and child, going so far as to order the killing of children in front of their mother before they, themselves were killed with the notable exception of virgin girls to be taken as captives. He also ordered the killing of their animals.

    Sports hunting was popular in Ancient Palestine, especially for the royalty.

    You advocate and defend slavery, genocide, rape, marital rape, child marriage, women's oppression. You are currently trying to defend the worst things that humanity ever produced. Think about that for a second. The worst injustice and the worst crimes man has commited against man you are trying to defend.
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Uh. Um. One translation is fine.
    Since you gave no reference to the book, Chapter, and verse, I will do so, so that readers can easily find the text.

    (Leviticus 25:44-46) 44Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you, from them you may buy a male or a female slave. 45Also from the sons of the foreign settlers who are residing with you, from them and from their families that are born to them in your land you may buy slaves, and they will become your possession. 46 You may pass them on as an inheritance to your sons after you to inherit as a permanent possession. You may use them as workers, but you must not subject your Israelite brothers to cruel treatment.

    Who were the nations around the Israelites?
    The Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, the Jebʹu·sites, and all the other ites.

    Who were the foreign settlers residing with the Israelites?
    The Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, the Jebʹu·sites, and all the other ites.

    Whom did the Israelites buy?
    Captives - who were slaves to the other nations.
    Captives - who were taken during war, or those who surrendered.
    2 Samuel 12:29-31 ; Joshua 9:3-27 ; 2 Kings 5:1, 2

    These were used as workers.
    They were prisoners of war - whether handed over (sold), or taken.

    It does not matter to me how people today try to wash their hands and pretend that there is no slavery that is acceptable today... when there is.
    Some may want to deny it, but the honest don't hide it.
    Slavery has its place... for now.
    In time it will be done away with... once certain factors are removed.
     
    #20 nPeace, Dec 25, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2020
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