the golden rule for this life

[Thief]

What is pointed out in the stages of moral growth is what is possible to obtain and that a great number of us do not get beyond the reward and punishment motivation mentality, that of a child.

and the Carpenter did say.....(of children) of such as these is made the kingdom of heaven

 

[Thief]

I believe our propensity to treat others fairly, as we would be treated, even kindly is part of our evolution. And it is not unique to humans. Elephants, chimps, many species of birds, in fact the majority of species of vertebrates demonstrate altruistic behavior. Do they do so because they have souls and want to go to an afterlife? They do so because these behaviors are beneficial.

I would also point out that our altruistic tendencies evolved in a PRE-ABUNDANCE world. Before life got easy for humans, we needed each other much more so than we do today in order to survive. In tribal society there is no greater punishment than banishment. Being cast out almost always meant imminent death.

Do unto others...is smart, is necessary for survival in a world of scarcity. That's why we have the tendency. That and it just feels good to help out others.

Nay....Man is self seeking and leans to self gratification

the law that inhibited was....an eye for an eye
a tooth for a tooth
severe injury at a time when healing was scarce or unknown

The golden rule was not the Carpenter's handiwork
it was written a thousand years before He walked....but....
He laid it like a stone before the Pharisees to grieve them
heathen law.....before the law of Moses

and they sought to kill Him from that hour forward

 

[Thief]

The problem with most religions is that you have a 'get out of jail' card available.
You can go round murdering and raping; then miraculously see the light and find god; start praying, confessing your sins and accepting JC and you have a pass to heaven.

Non-believers have no such card. If we do something wrong we accountable for it.

the golden rule DOES make everyone accountable

it will be done unto you AS you did unto others
(and so the law of Moses was not removed.....just superseded )

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

it seems some people are willing to.....
Do unto others as they would have it done unto them
but do not believe in the afterlife

as there is no life after death.....(not my belief)
why not do as you see fit?
every man for himself
take all you can ....give nothing back (Capt. Jack Sparrow)

a pirates life under a pirates code

So for you, the only thing that keeps you from living "the pirate's life" is that you think it will jeopardize your reward in Heaven?

If so, it sounds like you're living "the pirate's life" right now; you just have certain ideas about how to "get all you can."

 

[Thief]

So for you, the only thing that keeps you from living "the pirate's life" is that you think it will jeopardize your reward in Heaven?

If so, it sounds like you're living "the pirate's life" right now; you just have certain ideas about how to "get all you can."

I suspect.....do unto others as you would have it done unto you
is the key

the material stuff that slips through my fingers is just that
easy come.....easy go

as for treasure in heaven
I might receive as I gave

this way......one gesture to the poor is returned by each participant in heaven
as many participants as there may be

each misdeed is returned.....as many times as there are participants in heaven

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I suspect.....do unto others as you would have it done unto you
is the key

the material stuff that slips through my fingers is just that
easy come.....easy go

as for treasure in heaven
I might receive as I gave

this way......one gesture to the poor is returned by each participant in heaven
as many participants as there may be

each misdeed is returned.....as many times as there are participants in heaven

So you follow the golden rule not out of regard for others as much as regard for your own self-interest over the long term.

If so, then the thing you're not seeing is empathy. We give regard to others because we care about them the way we care about ourselves. When I inflict discomfort on someone else, I feel discomfort myself.

I suppose this is also regard for my own self-interest, but it sounds like this is what you're missing here. Inflicting harm on others would cause me pain, so I don't do it. And I don't mean abstract "I ought to recognize the value of this person as a human being and that the world will be worse off if he suffers" ideas - though they're important - causing others to suffer causes literal pain and anguish for me, so I don't do it.

To me, hurting others to get ahead makes as much sense as trying to lose weight by cutting off my arm: yeah, in a narrow perspective it's aligned with the stated goal, but in the broader context it makes no sense and would hurt a lot.

From your questions, I take it you don't feel this sort of empathy. Am I right?

 

[Thief]

So you follow the golden rule not out of regard for others as much as regard for your own self-interest over the long term.

If so, then the thing you're not seeing is empathy. We give regard to others because we care about them the way we care about ourselves. When I inflict discomfort on someone else, I feel discomfort myself.

I suppose this is also regard for my own self-interest, but it sounds like this is what you're missing here. Inflicting harm on others would cause me pain, so I don't do it. And I don't mean abstract "I ought to recognize the value of this person as a human being and that the world will be worse off if he suffers" ideas - though they're important - causing others to suffer causes literal pain and anguish for me, so I don't do it.

To me, hurting others to get ahead makes as much sense as trying to lose weight by cutting off my arm: yeah, in a narrow perspective it's aligned with the stated goal, but in the broader context it makes no sense and would hurt a lot.

From your questions, I take it you don't feel this sort of empathy. Am I right?

I know empathy all too well.

but I cannot drag you to heaven kicking and screaming with denial

should I empathize toward you?
or lean toward heaven and go my way without you?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I know empathy all too well.

but I cannot drag you to heaven kicking and screaming with denial

should I empathize toward you?
or lean toward heaven and go my way without you?

Don't change the subject.

 

[Darkstorn]

should I empathize toward you?
or lean toward heaven and go my way without you?

The first one, obviously. I think it's alarming you obviously don't think so. And make claims that you "know empathy all too well."

I don't know, your attitude just seems to be of the "i'll think of others after my own wants and needs are fulfilled" variety. I would expect such a thing to be a preventive factor in you getting a reward for your actions.

 

[pearl]

and the Carpenter did say.....(of children) of such as these is made the kingdom of heaven

Do you really think that Jesus was concerned with the cognitive ability of a child or was he referring to a 'pure' heart. Jesus emphasized the law of love found in Leviticus, the greater of which is the love for one another. He made even clearer in the 'whatsoever you do to the least of these......'

 

[metis]

He made even clearer in the 'whatsoever you do to the least of these......'

The irony is that seems to negate the concept of "original sin".

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

As a man once said, the bible is The Big Book of Multiple Choice, you can make it say anything you want. Sure, "Do unto others etc." but Jesus also (supposedly) said "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division." That is why religious groups like JWs think this sort of behaviour is okay. The ex-Jehovah's Witnesses shunned by their families - BBC News Is that "doing unto others"? No, quite the opposite I'd say, but no doubt the JWs would claim they are demonstrating their "loyalty" to god, and they don't love the person any less. Just that they're OK about the person suffering, as long as it doesn't get in the way of their reward on the "new Earth".
Oh the joy of the Lord!

 

[Thief]

The first one, obviously. I think it's alarming you obviously don't think so. And make claims that you "know empathy all too well."

I don't know, your attitude just seems to be of the "i'll think of others after my own wants and needs are fulfilled" variety. I would expect such a thing to be a preventive factor in you getting a reward for your actions.

settle your alarm to simple disappointment

I feel sorry for a lot of people
there is misery on this earth at every turn

picture the angelic at the time when they are sent to 'salvage' what they can

empathy won't play a large part in what they will do

the angelic have been displayed with sword for centuries
I cannot take that away
neither can you

 

[Darkstorn]

settle your alarm to simple disappointment

I feel sorry for a lot of people
there is misery on this earth at every turn

picture the angelic at the time when they are sent to 'salvage' what they can

empathy won't play a large part in what they will do

the angelic have been displayed with sword for centuries
I cannot take that away
neither can you

So in other words, you have absolutely zero idea what empathy actually means? Just what i thought.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

should I empathize toward you?
or lean toward heaven and go my way without you?

If you knew empathy, you both could go to hell or heaven together. Meet the suffering in hell, bring them to heaven. Too many people in this world care only about themselves. I will gladly go to hell for people.

 

[Thief]

If you knew empathy, you both could go to hell or heaven together. Meet the suffering in hell, bring them to heaven. Too many people in this world care only about themselves. I will gladly go to hell for people.

we maybe kindred spirits....
if I show up at heaven gate and then learn a loved one is not there.......
I would ask the lend of a sword.....and go looking for her

and she had better not be harmed

 

[Thief]

So in other words, you have absolutely zero idea what empathy actually means? Just what i thought.

incorrect assumption on your part

i do know.....and i do not take it lightly

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Nay....Man is self seeking and leans to self gratification

the law that inhibited was....an eye for an eye
a tooth for a tooth
severe injury at a time when healing was scarce or unknown

The golden rule was not the Carpenter's handiwork
it was written a thousand years before He walked....but....
He laid it like a stone before the Pharisees to grieve them
heathen law.....before the law of Moses

and they sought to kill Him from that hour forward

"Do unto others...' is self-seeking. There is nothing more in our own best interest, especially over the past 3 million years prior to civilization, than acceptance by the group. "An eye for an eye" can best be seen as rejection by the group. Nothing but the other side of the same coin.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is pretty much just good common sense.

You would think, except that before Christianity, the most advanced civilizations like Rome, considered watching innocent people being maimed and killed to be the height of sophisticated public entertainment, without a twinge of pity.

In less civilized places, having your relatives and neighbors for dinner meant something else entirely

I think many of us take certain Christian values we were brought up with for granted as 'natural' or inherently human, when history does not show that to be so

 

[ADigitalArtist]

You would think, except that before Christianity, the most advanced civilizations like Rome, considered watching innocent people being maimed and killed to be the height of sophisticated public entertainment, without a twinge of pity.

In less civilized places, having your relatives and neighbors for dinner meant something else entirely

I think many of us take certain Christian values we were brought up with for granted as 'natural' or inherently human, when history does not show that to be so

You're right, it was much more merciful to just burn your enemies, the heathens, the sexual deviants, et al, alive than make elaborate spectacles about it. I mean, except the elaborate spectacle of burning people alive in a town square as an example to others... Oh ****. I guess Christians weren't much more merciful.

Anyway. I'm more a fan of the Platinum rule than the golden rule anyway, as I think it actually takes more empathy to put into practice. Tony Alessandra - About Tony - The ONLY Official Site to Book Tony for a Speech