The Gods

[The Hammer]

So my fellow Pagans.

Do you believe the Gods are an integral part of Nature. In a place that is somehow outside of Nature (or Universe). Or a combination of the two?

I believe that it is a blend of the two, I think that the Gods are outside of Reality/Universe, but are also an integral part within it, directing and controlling it. This makes more sense to me, as they can manipulate things as they need, based on the circumstances of the interactions they want with mortals.

I added an 'Other' option for those that have something else in mind (Archetypes maybe?).

 

[VoidCat]

Both. Tho perhaps some might only be part of nature and others might only be outside the universe...

So I chose other.

 

[VoidCat]

Both. Tho perhaps some might only be part of nature and others might only be separate from it...

So I chose other.

Altho there are some solely created by man and weren't originally there but formed from man. They are very real deities but arent really outside of the universe or part of it. They are kinda there own thing.

I think Lucifer is an example of this perhaps

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

as an agnostic, I can only consider that any deity that I interact with will not be fully knowable by me...so I won't be able to know whether or not it is just a part of nature, outside of nature, or some combination...One or more can tell me that they are one or the other, but in the final analysis, I will not be able to know that for certain...

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I chose other.

Philosophically and psychologically, I see the gods as archetypal. But in a way, I feel them as having a life of their own; even if I logically don't think Pan is an actual God, there's a life to him that, logical or not, I respond to. That's spirit, the genius loci of my unique pattern within the larger form.

But I am very fluid in my defining of things. As a mystic pagan, I understand that the point to everything is relationship. This fluidity helps me find the magic in a variety of religious and spiritual traditions. For instance, when I visit a Christian service, I can understand "God" as being the Undifferentiated Universe, and Christ on the cross as the ego sacrificed to become one with "God."

 

[The Hammer]

But I am very fluid in my defining of things. As a mystic pagan, I understand that the point to everything is relationship. This fluidity helps me find the magic in a variety of religious and spiritual traditions. For instance, when I visit a Christian service, I can understand "God" as being the Undifferentiated Universe, and Christ on the cross as the ego sacrificed to become one with "God."

We must share a mind, because this pretty accurate for me too.

And I can certainly agree with that symbolism for Christ, I actually made that point in a debate with a Christian. I don't think they were pleased.

But I chose both, because as you said you can feel the Gods you work with.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

We must share a mind, because this pretty accurate for me too.

<Raises drinking horn full of mead>

And I can certainly agree with that symbolism for Christ, I actually made that point in a debate with a Christian. I don't think they were pleased.

I have a habit of referring to Christ on the cross as the fermented fruit on the Tree of Life and Death, and some Christians take that as a bad thing!

We drink his blood as wine, and rejoice with the spirit of Dionysus in our veins.

 

[The Hammer]

<Raises drinking horn full of mead>

Skål

I have a habit of referring to Christ on the cross as the fermented fruit on the Tree of Life and Death, and some Christians take that as a bad thing!

We drink his blood as wine, and rejoice with the spirit of Dionysus in our veins.

I think the analogy I used was comparing Christ's Death and Resurrection, to the Shamanistic Death and Rebirth cycle.

The Fruit of the Tree of Life/knowledge (Good and Evil) is either a fermented fruit or a Mushroom IMO.

 

[Hildeburh]

Excellent question Hammer.

Our deities cannot be outside our reality as our corpus directly states that they interacted with us. I also don't believe they direct and control in a fashion that benefits humanity, they have their own battles, conflicts and desires. So either you get out of their way or you appease by offerings or form a beneficial relationship with your gods/esses and hope that look favourably upon you.

I dislike comparisons with Christianity, they have their lore we have ours. The story of Jesus has such blatant pagan roots I struggle to understand how Christians continue to believe in such an obvious syncretism. I guess ignorance is bliss.

 

[Aštra’el]

Do you believe the Gods are an integral part of Nature. In a place that is somehow outside of Nature (or Universe). Or a combination of the two?

My belief is that it is a combination. This reminds me of another question:

“Do our gods exist within us? Or outside of us?”

To which I again say, both. I can feel the storm within me, and I can sense it around me… in nature and in humanity. And, perhaps elsewhere.

 

[1137]

Both. Tho perhaps some might only be part of nature and others might only be outside the universe...

So I chose other.

I agree, though chose both.

 

[Ella S.]

The Stoics were Hellenists, although each of them had their own views on the gods, and I see Iuppiter as a personification of the nature as many Stoics did.

For the rest of the gods, I take influence from Hermeticism, which is quite heavy on its archetypes, but so many Hellenic gods are already phrased in archetypal terms. Mors? Fortuna? Dies? Somnus? Death, Fate, Day, and Sleep. It's not too hard to take them as personifications as a modern Atheopagan, because it isn't actually too far off from how (some of) the ancients regarded them.

Other gods are closely tied to nature worship for me. Venerating the earth? Terra. Venerating the sun? Solus. Venerating the night? Nox. In doing so, I realize why the Stoics felt that the gods were so closely tied to their form of mindfulness.

 

[Ashoka]

I believe in a blend. Panentheism, I believe, would best describe it.