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The god upstairs.

E

Elipticalvoyage

Member
Gods son; Jesus christ was crucified on behalf of us as recompense for our sins. why?

How does it make sense that a sinless person was saddled with the punishment for all of the wrongdoings of mankind.

You see it is my view that because of this; that even the sinless do not escape pain. God, this is false.

It stands to reason that the purpose of jesus being sinless and then subsequently punished only serves as an example to us that even though we have not sinned much that we should accept our shames because that

poor bloke jesus did.

A means to control us through twisted truths.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
If you had taken the time to understand Christian theology before bashing it, the story goes that Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice for the salvation of humans, and that he was without sin is what makes his blood cleansing. He sacrificed himself for the benefit of the many is one way of putting it.
 
Sir Doom

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
In many views, Jesus is actually God in addition to being God's only begotten son. So, one could suggest that the entire affair was an illustration by God that he is not asking you to do anything he wouldn't do himself. He lived a magnanimous life and then endured a torturous death as a direct result. There aren't many of us that can say our life is more unfair than that. I certainly can't.

Of course, that's assuming that it happened at all.
 
Shiranui117

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Elipticalvoyage said:
Gods son; Jesus christ was crucified on behalf of us as recompense for our sins. why?

How does it make sense that a sinless person was saddled with the punishment for all of the wrongdoings of mankind.

You see it is my view that because of this; that even the sinless do not escape pain. God, this is false.

It stands to reason that the purpose of jesus being sinless and then subsequently punished only serves as an example to us that even though we have not sinned much that we should accept our shames because that

poor bloke jesus did.

A means to control us through twisted truths.
Click to expand...
And that is why penal substitution/substitutionary atonement are wrong, and are not at all based in the Bible.

You'll be interested to know that this line of thinking was invented over a thousand years after the start of Christianity. The earliest Christians taught otherwise, and Orthodox Christianity continues to rebuke the idea that Jesus died to take God's punishment/wrath for us/our sins.
 
The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
It makes perfect sense, even to those who don't follow an altruistic philosophy; the sacrifice of one for the rest of the flock.
 
BBTimeless

BBTimeless

Active Member
Elipticalvoyage said:
Gods son; Jesus christ was crucified on behalf of us as recompense for our sins. why?

How does it make sense that a sinless person was saddled with the punishment for all of the wrongdoings of mankind.

You see it is my view that because of this; that even the sinless do not escape pain. God, this is false.

It stands to reason that the purpose of jesus being sinless and then subsequently punished only serves as an example to us that even though we have not sinned much that we should accept our shames because that

poor bloke jesus did.

A means to control us through twisted truths.
Click to expand...
Then, don't believe it?
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
dyanaprajna2011 said:
Wasn't it Tertullian, the second century CE Christian theologian, the father of western Christianity, who said he believed in Christianity precisely because it was so absurd?
Click to expand...

There will always be people who believe things just because they are unbelievable, but that is not true for most people. :)
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
If I robbed a bank, but rather than arresting me the cops instead grabbed a random innocent person of the street and tossed him into prison for my crime. Is justice done? What, exactly, is being gratified?
 
The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Father Heathen said:
If I robbed a bank, but rather than arresting me the cops instead grabbed a random innocent person of the street and tossed him into prison for my crime. Is justice done? What, exactly, is being gratified?
Click to expand...

If a man is in a room full of people and there was a grenade thrown in, the man jumps on it, justice is done.
 
Walkntune

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Elipticalvoyage said:
Gods son; Jesus christ was crucified on behalf of us as recompense for our sins. why?

How does it make sense that a sinless person was saddled with the punishment for all of the wrongdoings of mankind.

You see it is my view that because of this; that even the sinless do not escape pain. God, this is false.

It stands to reason that the purpose of jesus being sinless and then subsequently punished only serves as an example to us that even though we have not sinned much that we should accept our shames because that

poor bloke jesus did.
A means to control us through twisted truths.
Click to expand...
Sometimes what you run from can create more pain and resistance than the issues at hand.We create our own laws of justification in trying to escape and therefore the real control is really only that of being forced to face a reality we are trying to run from.Once it is faced through grace you may find it not so bad and nothing but love waiting on the other side. Jesus has made a way through the storm and not around it.If God wanted to control there never would have been an option for grace.It is man who has the issues of control as he seeks his escape.
 
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Shiranui117

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Father Heathen said:
If I robbed a bank, but rather than arresting me the cops instead grabbed a random innocent person of the street and tossed him into prison for my crime. Is justice done? What, exactly, is being gratified?
Click to expand...
Which is the exact reason that substitutionary atonement doesn't work.

The Sum of Awe said:
If a man is in a room full of people and there was a grenade thrown in, the man jumps on it, justice is done.
Click to expand...
That's not justice, that's selflessness. There's a difference.
 
The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Father Heathen said:
Not an apt analogy.
Click to expand...

Why so? I imagine you'll say that Jesus was innocent and sinless, but he also was the one who sacrificed himself, God didn't necessarily sacrifice him, Jesus offered. God probably foresaw it coming, but that's a whole other topic.

Not only that, but if you still aren't convinced Jesus offered to be sacrificed, you still want to blame it on God, and use "Darkmatter2525" arguments, then it's still apt. because Jesus was anointed, he was destined to die that way, that was his purpose.
 
E

Elipticalvoyage

Member
Shadow Wolf said:
If you had taken the time to understand Christian theology before bashing it, the story goes that Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice for the salvation of humans, and that he was without sin is what makes his blood cleansing. He sacrificed himself for the benefit of the many is one way of putting it.
Click to expand...

Why tho shadow. My question is; WHY. Why does that make his blood cleansing.
 
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