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The Genesis Account

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
I recently authored the simple thread about the term Creationism and why it is a misnomer to call everyone that believes in the Bible a creationist:

Evolution vs "Creationism" Why the Term is Predijudical

So what about the Genesis Account? Can it be reconciled with science?

I wish to author this thread to explain not only that it can, but when observed from the correct viewpoint it becomes obvious that a nomadic wanderer some 3,500 years ago could not have written what he did without supernatural revelation.


The Genesis Account

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."-Genesis 1:1.

So starts the Genesis account of creation and the very first 10 words of the Bible. Is the statement scientifically sound?

Scientists tend to agree that the universe is expanding from what they term an explosion that started the universe known as the Big Bang. Most scientists agree that the universe had a start. And there is verifiable evidence by looking at the universe that it did.

So yes, the universe had a beginning. If cosmologists are correct it was some 13.8 billion years ago. Does the Bible account specify how long ago the universe and then later on the earth were formed? No it does not. But it does state correctly that the universe, in the sometime distant past, had a beginning.

The rest of the Genesis account is not referring to the creation of the already existing heaven and earth from verse 1. Rather it is the account of how God started to prepare the already existing earth in the already existing universe according to verse 1 for life.

There is one more thing to be mentioned here before continuing to understand the Genesis account. And it has to do with the word day. In Hebrew the word can connotate a number of things, and it is obvious that in the context it is referring to long unspecified periods of times, and not a literal 24 hour period of time.

For example in chapter 2 of Genesis we are told:

"This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."-Genesis 2:4.

Here Genesis uses the word day to encompass all the preceding days in chapter 1. In the day God made heaven and earth. Obviously this is not referring to a literal 24 hour period of time.

Let us look on from the perspective of someone on earth as he was given the Genesis account.




Day 1:

"Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters."-Genesis 1:2.

If you notice we start out with the earth already existing in the already existing universe. The universe is now untold billions of years old, and perhaps the earth too. At this point in earth's history it is completely covered with water. And the atmosphere is completely shrouded in cloud. That is, on the earth's surface the atmosphere was so thick, the light from the existing sun could not penetrate to the watery surface.



Day 2:

"Then God said: “Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”  Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse. And it was so."-Genesis 1:6, 7.

The water vapor in the thick atmosphere lifted from between the waters on the earth and a division was made between the clouds in the sky and on the surface. Notice that while the sun and moon and stars have already been in existence for billions of years from the viewpoint of a person on earth at this point in its history they were not visible yet.





Day 3:

"Then God said: “Let the waters under the heavens be collected together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.  God called the dry land Earth, but the collecting of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.  Then God said: “Let the earth cause grass to sprout, seed-bearing plants and fruit trees according to their kinds, yielding fruit along with seed on the earth.” And it was so."-Genesis 1:9-11.

During this eon of time God had dry land appear on earth. That is when he called the waters Seas and the dry ground Earth.



Day 4:

"Then God said: “Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years.  They will serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.”-Genesis 1:14, 15.

During this period of time the earth's atmosphere was cleared up enough so that the sun and moon became visible from its surface.




Day 5:

"Then God said: “Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”  And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."-Genesis 1:21, 22.

During this epoch God created living creates in the sea and the birds of the heaven.



Day 6:

"Then God said: “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds, domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.  And God went on to make the wild animals of the earth according to their kinds and the domestic animals according to their kinds and all the creeping animals of the ground according to their kinds."-Genesis 1:24, 25.

During this last day of creation God finally creates animals on dry land, both domestic and wild. This would include the dinosaurs that lived for a time and eventually passed off the world scene.

And finally as his last work of creation on earth God created the the man and woman.

Looking at the fossil record, the appearance of sea creatures, winged creatures, the animals on land, and finally humans all concur with how it appears in the Genesis account. And they did not just gradually appear over long periods of times. But they appeared suddenly in the fossil record.

Is the Genesis account a scientific account of how the universe came to be and life on earth? No. of course not. Is it scientifically sound and reliable? Totally. Could Moses have really known all of this 3,500 years ago? Or was he given divine revelation in simple but understandable terms about our origin?
 
Last edited:

exchemist

Veteran Member
I recently authored the simple thread about the term Creationism and why it is a misnomer to call everyone that believes in the Bible a creationist:

Evolution vs "Creationism" Why the Term is Predijudical

So what about the Genesis Account? Can it be reconciled with science?

I wish to author this thread to explain not only that it can, but when observed from the correct viewpoint it becomes obvious that a nomadic wanderer some 3,500 years ago could not have written what he did without supernatural revelation.


The Genesis Account

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."-Genesis 1:1.

So starts the Genesis account of creation and the very first 10 words of the Bible. Is the statement scientifically sound?

Scientists tend to agree that the universe is expanding from what they term an explosion that started the universe known as the Big Bang. Most scientists agree that the universe had a start. And there is verifiable evidence by looking at the universe that it did.

So yes, the universe had a beginning. If cosmologists are correct it was some 13.8 billion years ago. Does the Bible account specify how long ago the universe and then later on the earth were formed? No it does not. But it does state correctly that the universe, in the sometime distant past, had a beginning.

The rest of the Genesis account is not referring to the creation of the already existing heaven and earth from verse 1. Rather it is the account of how God started to prepare the already existing earth in the already existing universe according to verse 1 for life.

There is one more thing to be mentioned here before continuing to understand the Genesis account. And it has to do with the word day. In Hebrew the word can connotate a number of things, and it is obvious that in the context it is referring to long unspecified periods of times, and not a literal 24 hour period of time.

For example in chapter 2 of Genesis we are told:

"This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."-Genesis 2:4.

Here Genesis uses the word day to encompass all the preceding days in chapter 1. In the day God made heaven and earth. Obviously this is not referring to a literal 24 hour period of time.

Let us look on from the perspective of someone on earth as he was given the Genesis account.




Day 1:

"Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters."-Genesis 1:2.

If you notice we start out with the earth already existing in the already existing universe. The universe is now untold billions of years old, and perhaps the earth too. At this point in earth's history it is completely covered with water. And the atmosphere is completely shrouded in cloud. That is, on the earth's surface the atmosphere was so thick, the light from the existing sun could not penetrate to the watery surface.



Day 2:

"Then God said: “Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”  Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse. And it was so."-Genesis 1:6, 7.

The water vapor in the thick atmosphere lifted from between the waters on the earth and a division was made between the clouds in the sky and on the surface. Notice that while the sun and moon and stars have already been in existence for billions of years from the viewpoint of a person on earth at this point in its history they were not visible yet.





Day 3:

"Then God said: “Let the waters under the heavens be collected together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.  God called the dry land Earth, but the collecting of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.  Then God said: “Let the earth cause grass to sprout, seed-bearing plants and fruit trees according to their kinds, yielding fruit along with seed on the earth.” And it was so."-Genesis 1:9-11.

During this eon of time God had dry land appear on earth. That is when he called the waters Seas and the dry ground Earth.



Day 4:

"Then God said: “Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years.  They will serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.”-Genesis 1:14, 15.

During this period of time the earth's atmosphere was cleared up enough so that the sun and moon became visible from its surface.




Day 5:

"Then God said: “Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”  And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."-Genesis 1:21, 22.

During this epoch God created living creates in the sea and the birds of the heaven.



Day 6:

"Then God said: “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds, domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.  And God went on to make the wild animals of the earth according to their kinds and the domestic animals according to their kinds and all the creeping animals of the ground according to their kinds."-Genesis 1:24, 25.

During this last day of creation God finally creates animals on dry land, both domestic and wild. This would include the dinosaurs that lived for a time and eventually passed off the world scene.

And finally as his last work of creation on earth God created the the man and woman.

Looking at the fossil record, the appearance of sea creatures, winged creatures, the animals on land, and finally humans all concur with how it appears in the Genesis account. And they did not just gradually appear over long periods of times. But they appeared suddenly in the fossil record.

Is the Genesis account a scientific account of how the universe came to be and life on earth? No. of course not. Is it scientifically sound and reliable? Totally. Could Moses have really known all of this 3,500 years ago? Or was he given divine revelation in simple but understandable terms about our origin?
This is quite a nice way of viewing the Genesis allegory, save for what you say on Day 6 about fossils "suddenly" appearing. That looks to me like the entry point for the bacillus of bogus pseudoscience.

Maybe I'm unduly cynical after long years in internet science forums but, taking this in the context of your attempt on the other thread to redefine creationism as Young Earth Creationism only, I'm wondering if I can smell the Trojan Horse of "Intelligent Design" here.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Is the Genesis account a scientific account of how the universe came to be and life on earth? No. of course not. Is it scientifically sound and reliable? Totally. Could Moses have really known all of this 3,500 years ago? Or was he given divine revelation in simple but understandable terms about our origin?


Obviously Moses was not the only person to whom a god imparted such knowledge...

51zTFpsJprL._SX398_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


In the book, there are just 25 of thousands of creation stories man has concocted. The following review hits the nail on the head...



https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Creation-Stories-Around-World/dp/0152387420
Reviewed in the United States on January 4, 2020
Verified Purchase
My kindergarten and 2nd grade daughters are enjoying these. They are starting to hear lots of stuff about how god created the earth at school, so this book is helping to temper that “knowledge”. Stories are pretty short and there is some background information for each one.
It always amazes me that OT believers think there is something special about their creation story.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
That's not true. As a matter of fact, Pluto's unusual and elliptical orbit can be explained if the Sun was created quickly and pulled in this stray planet through it's gravity field.

Um, no. Not even close. Pluto is one of many Trans-uranic objects, most of which have unusual orbits (all planetary orbits are elliptical, by the way--Pluto just has a very eccentric one -- for a Planet--- which it is not).

The sun being created quickly and puling this 'stray planet' through its gravity would have disrupted all the other, actual, planets as well as all the other trans-uranic objects.
 

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
Um, no. Not even close. Pluto is one of many Trans-uranic objects, most of which have unusual orbits (all planetary orbits are elliptical, by the way--Pluto just has a very eccentric one -- for a Planet--- which it is not).

The sun being created quickly and puling this 'stray planet' through its gravity would have disrupted all the other, actual, planets as well as all the other trans-uranic objects.

Hi Polymath. Good afternoon. I should have said eccentric. If the sun was placed in a strategic position at the time by Yahweh where Pluto would be pulled in by the suns gravity, and the other planets would be pulled in, it would have the same effect as we learn from science, similar to if you have a weight on the end of a string. Only with the eccentric orbit created by Pluto, I theorize that the planet was going off direction and was only just captured by the sun's gravity field. I feel that Yahweh left evidence that He created the Sun in this fashion through Pluto. Most planets orbit the sun in a near-circle. The sun is in the center of the circle. But Pluto does not orbit in a circle. The orbit of Pluto is shaped like an oval. And the sun is not in the center. Pluto's orbit is also tilted. Might this be because it was going off course during that time of instability before Yahweh had created the stars, sun or moon?
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Oh my nothing...same old story, any way one tells it !
Nothing but nothing, except `God` cleaning `His` belly button,
oh no ! that was Buddha wasn't it ? But...….NOTHING ?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Hi Polymath. Good afternoon. I should have said eccentric. If the sun was placed in a strategic position at the time by Yahweh where Pluto would be pulled in by the suns gravity, and the other planets would be pulled in, it would have the same effect as we learn from science, similar to if you have a weight on the end of a string.

There seems to be a misunderstanding here about how gravity works. You don't get 'pulled in' to an orbit. Your initial velocity and distance determine the subsequent orbit.

Only with the eccentric orbit created by Pluto, I theorize that the planet was going off direction and was only just captured by the sun's gravity field.

And the rest of the TNOs? They also have highly eccentric orbits.

I feel that Yahweh left evidence that He created the Sun in this fashion through Pluto. Most planets orbit the sun in a near-circle. The sun is in the center of the circle. But Pluto does not orbit in a circle.
Neither do comets, nor most asteroids, nor, for that matter, the planets (although they have smaller eccentricities, they are NOT circular orbits). The eccentricity of the Earth's orbit has effects that have been known in ancient times, like the difference in time going from spring equinox to fall versus the other way around.

The orbit of Pluto is shaped like an oval. And the sun is not in the center.
Actually ALL the orbits of ALL the planets are somewhat oval. Mars has a particularly eccentric orbit, which is why Kepler worked with it.

And no, the center of the ellipse is not at the sun. It isn't for the Earth either. The sun is at a *focus* of the ellipse. And this is true for Pluto, Mars, Earth, and comets.

Pluto's orbit is also tilted. Might this be because it was going off course during that time of instability before Yahweh had created the stars, sun or moon?

And the orbits of many asteroids are also 'tilted'. And so are the orbits of many TNOs. For that matter, the planets themselves aren't *exactly* on the same plane: they are also tilted (just not by quite as much). The orbits of comets are also tilted in this way.

Trying to fit your mythology into the science isn't working. Maybe you should learn more of the science before making another attempt?
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
it really does depend on which cultural set of glasses one has on at the moment, as to how the sea of lights appears to the one observing it.
at the end of it all .....The MAP is not the Territory.
star-map.png
 

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
There seems to be a misunderstanding here about how gravity works. You don't get 'pulled in' to an orbit. Your initial velocity and distance determine the subsequent orbit.

Hi Polymath. Orbits are the result of a perfect balance between the forward motion of a body in space, such as a planet or moon, and the pull of gravity on it from another body in space, such as a large planet or star. Note the word perfect. Yahweh's creation shows perfection whether that's an eclipse in the sky, to our solar system. An object with a lot of mass goes forward and wants to keep going forward; however, the gravity of another body in space pulls it in. This tug of war between the object wanting to go forward and the other wanting to pull it in creates an orbit. This is exactly what would have happened with the creation of the Sun to create the orbits.

And the rest of the TNOs? They also have highly eccentric orbits.

I've concentrated on Pluto because it's the most famous TNO.

Neither do comets, nor most asteroids, nor, for that matter, the planets (although they have smaller eccentricities, they are NOT circular orbits). The eccentricity of the Earth's orbit has effects that have been known in ancient times, like the difference in time going from spring equinox to fall versus the other way around.

The origin of the highly eccentric, inclined, and resonance-locked orbit of Pluto has long been a puzzle to scientists.

Maybe you should learn more of the science before making another attempt?

Maybe.
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
there is this..... seems germane.
>>>
"The museum was so serious about getting the details right that they brought in Buck as a co-curator, along with indigenous astronomer Annette Lee, who is both Dakota/Lakota and Ojibway.


“As much as there’s this idea that science is all rational, science is immune from culture, that’s simply not true.
Science itself is not actually separate from culture,” she says. “It came from a specific culture, and that’s Western European.”


Lee means that our very picture of what science is was shaped by Western European history and the biases of that culture.


But science is something anyone can do, and, Lee says, everyone has done.
The process on paper is simple: closely observe the world, test what you learn, and transmit it to future generations.
That indigenous cultures have done so without test tubes doesn’t make them unscientific, she says—just different."
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I recently authored the simple thread about the term Creationism and why it is a misnomer to call everyone that believes in the Bible a creationist:

Evolution vs "Creationism" Why the Term is Predijudical

So what about the Genesis Account? Can it be reconciled with science?

I wish to author this thread to explain not only that it can, but when observed from the correct viewpoint it becomes obvious that a nomadic wanderer some 3,500 years ago could not have written what he did without supernatural revelation.


The Genesis Account

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."-Genesis 1:1.

So starts the Genesis account of creation and the very first 10 words of the Bible. Is the statement scientifically sound?

Scientists tend to agree that the universe is expanding from what they term an explosion that started the universe known as the Big Bang. Most scientists agree that the universe had a start. And there is verifiable evidence by looking at the universe that it did.

So yes, the universe had a beginning. If cosmologists are correct it was some 13.8 billion years ago. Does the Bible account specify how long ago the universe and then later on the earth were formed? No it does not. But it does state correctly that the universe, in the sometime distant past, had a beginning.

The rest of the Genesis account is not referring to the creation of the already existing heaven and earth from verse 1. Rather it is the account of how God started to prepare the already existing earth in the already existing universe according to verse 1 for life.

There is one more thing to be mentioned here before continuing to understand the Genesis account. And it has to do with the word day. In Hebrew the word can connotate a number of things, and it is obvious that in the context it is referring to long unspecified periods of times, and not a literal 24 hour period of time.

For example in chapter 2 of Genesis we are told:

"This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."-Genesis 2:4.

Here Genesis uses the word day to encompass all the preceding days in chapter 1. In the day God made heaven and earth. Obviously this is not referring to a literal 24 hour period of time.

Let us look on from the perspective of someone on earth as he was given the Genesis account.




Day 1:

"Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters."-Genesis 1:2.

If you notice we start out with the earth already existing in the already existing universe. The universe is now untold billions of years old, and perhaps the earth too. At this point in earth's history it is completely covered with water. And the atmosphere is completely shrouded in cloud. That is, on the earth's surface the atmosphere was so thick, the light from the existing sun could not penetrate to the watery surface.



Day 2:

"Then God said: “Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”  Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse. And it was so."-Genesis 1:6, 7.

The water vapor in the thick atmosphere lifted from between the waters on the earth and a division was made between the clouds in the sky and on the surface. Notice that while the sun and moon and stars have already been in existence for billions of years from the viewpoint of a person on earth at this point in its history they were not visible yet.





Day 3:

"Then God said: “Let the waters under the heavens be collected together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.  God called the dry land Earth, but the collecting of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.  Then God said: “Let the earth cause grass to sprout, seed-bearing plants and fruit trees according to their kinds, yielding fruit along with seed on the earth.” And it was so."-Genesis 1:9-11.

During this eon of time God had dry land appear on earth. That is when he called the waters Seas and the dry ground Earth.



Day 4:

"Then God said: “Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years.  They will serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.”-Genesis 1:14, 15.

During this period of time the earth's atmosphere was cleared up enough so that the sun and moon became visible from its surface.




Day 5:

"Then God said: “Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”  And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."-Genesis 1:21, 22.

During this epoch God created living creates in the sea and the birds of the heaven.



Day 6:

"Then God said: “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds, domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.  And God went on to make the wild animals of the earth according to their kinds and the domestic animals according to their kinds and all the creeping animals of the ground according to their kinds."-Genesis 1:24, 25.

During this last day of creation God finally creates animals on dry land, both domestic and wild. This would include the dinosaurs that lived for a time and eventually passed off the world scene.

And finally as his last work of creation on earth God created the the man and woman.

Looking at the fossil record, the appearance of sea creatures, winged creatures, the animals on land, and finally humans all concur with how it appears in the Genesis account. And they did not just gradually appear over long periods of times. But they appeared suddenly in the fossil record.

Is the Genesis account a scientific account of how the universe came to be and life on earth? No. of course not. Is it scientifically sound and reliable? Totally. Could Moses have really known all of this 3,500 years ago? Or was he given divine revelation in simple but understandable terms about our origin?
Sorry to say, if taken at the literalistic level, the Genesis account doesn't make much sense based on what we now do know. If taken as allegory, and I believe it was likely designed as such to counter the earlier and much more widespread Babylonian polytheistic account, then it very much can and does make sense, imo.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I have no problem with the Genesis account
or science

to say God created earth......doesn't mean this planet
to say God created all that is green.....doesn't mean this planet

and maybe no one noticed?
Man as a species....male and female …..on Day Six
no names
no garden
no special tree
no law
go forth be fruitful, multiply, subdue all things......

Chapter Two is NOT a retelling of Chapter One
Adam is a chosen son of God

and God TOOK the Man (which He made of dust) and placed him IN a garden

Adam was not formed in the garden

and to say Adam was made of dust does not make him unique
you also are made of dust

and then the form of Eve

picture Moses telling you......God
laid a man to sleep
cut him
removed a rib
and formed the rib into a woman

looks like anesthesia.....surgery.....cloning.....genetic manipulation

Adam was given his twin sister for a bride

as you sit at the campfire hearing of this....you might ask
WHAT?......cut a man
remove a rib
and the man not DIE....!!!!!...….and he slept throughout??????????????

but we know this can happen
don't we?
 
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