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The Garden of good and evil

Riders

Well-Known Member
So I was listening to the Atheists radio show on youtube again with Matt and one of the other ones I forget the names. Anyways they brought up a fact I never thought about.The bible says that Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil before they ate from the tree of life.

How can God hold them responsible for doing evil when they did not know what evil was? Why did God punish them ????It is not a fair and just God.God was wrong.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
So I was listening to the Atheists radio show on youtube again with Matt and one of the other ones I forget the names. Anyways they brought up a fact I never thought about.The bible says that Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil before they ate from the tree of life.

How can God hold them responsible for doing evil when they did not know what evil was? Why did God punish them ????It is not a fair and just God.God was wrong.

IMO, it was more about disobedience than good vs evil.

Nothing evil about eating fruit from a tree. :shrug:

God told them not to and they did it anyway. Sin is disobeying one of God's commandments. For example you got to remove your foreskin. What's evil about having a foreskin?

Adam and Eve were told not to do something by God. They did it anyway. Disobedience doesn't require a knowledge of good and evil.
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
So I was listening to the Atheists radio show on youtube again with Matt and one of the other ones I forget the names. Anyways they brought up a fact I never thought about.The bible says that Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil before they ate from the tree of life.

How can God hold them responsible for doing evil when they did not know what evil was? Why did God punish them ????It is not a fair and just God.God was wrong.
Do you know what a merism is? If you do not, look it up.
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
So I was listening to the Atheists radio show on youtube again with Matt and one of the other ones I forget the names. Anyways they brought up a fact I never thought about.The bible says that Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil before they ate from the tree of life.

How can God hold them responsible for doing evil when they did not know what evil was? Why did God punish them ????It is not a fair and just God.God was wrong.

Because if you fight you must suffer aswell.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
IMO, it was more about disobedience than good vs evil.

Nothing evil about eating fruit from a tree. :shrug:

God told them not to and they did it anyway. Sin is disobeying one of God's commandments. For example you got to remove your foreskin. What's evil about having a foreskin?

Adam and Eve were told not to do something by God. They did it anyway. Disobedience doesn't require a knowledge of good and evil.

If there is nothing evil about it, I do not care if it is sin or not, its not evil, it should be punished. If God wants to punish people for moving back their forskin that is Gods problem.
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
So I was listening to the Atheists radio show on youtube again with Matt and one of the other ones I forget the names. Anyways they brought up a fact I never thought about.The bible says that Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil before they ate from the tree of life.

How can God hold them responsible for doing evil when they did not know what evil was? Why did God punish them ????It is not a fair and just God.God was wrong.
  • I'm sure that this will not make a difference in your argument against God's justice, BUT:
    • Genesis, chapter 2 says:
      • 15. The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
      • 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
      • 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
  • In other words, you don't have your story straight. Adam was told don't eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He was NOT told to refrain from eating from the tree of life.
  • Next: I'm guessing that you've never had kids of your own and, probably never been left in charge of anyone else's kids. I say that because it seems to me that you would have serious difficulty teaching the littlest kids the difference between: "Yes, you may do this" and "No, you may not do that." You wouldn't know how to teach that to a little kid who doesn't know the meaning of the words: "No" and "don't do that".
  • Your argument against God's justice is that it's not fair for Him to punish anybody who doesn't know what "No" and "Don't do that" mean, right?
  • Now, there are things that a parent who loves and cares for their children will tell their kid(s) that they can do and there are things that the parent will tell their kid(s) that they cannot do. A person who doesn't begin to teach their kid(s) the difference between "yes" and "no"; "do" and "don't"; "you may" and "you may not", should not have children nor be left in charge of children.
  • In the story about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, there was one rule, ... just one. It wasn't a complicated rule. "Don't eat the fruit from that tree."
  • A rule is meaningless if there are no consequences for breaking the rule and no benefit or reward for obeying the rule.
  • The benefit/reward for obeying the rule was "Adam and Eve could continue to enjoy life in the Garden."
  • The consequence(s) for breaking the rule was "death".
  • Just one rule, and they broke it. And as a consequence, you're in Texas and confused, when you could have been living in the Garden of Eden.
  • And there's something else that the story explains. Wanna know what that is?
 
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Riders

Well-Known Member
  • I'm sure that this will not make a difference in your argument against God's justice, BUT:
    • Genesis, chapter 2 says:
      • 15. The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
      • 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
      • 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
  • In other words, you don't have your story straight. Adam was told don't eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He was NOT told to refrain from eating from the tree of life.
  • Next: I'm guessing that you've never had kids of your own and, probably never been left in charge of anyone else's kids. I say that because it seems to me that you would have serious difficulty teaching the littlest kids the difference between: "Yes, you may do this" and "No, you may not do that." You wouldn't know how to teach that to a little kid who doesn't know the meaning of the words: "No" and "don't do that".
  • Your argument against God's justice is that it's not fair for Him to punish anybody who doesn't know what "No" and "Don't do that" mean, right?
  • Now, there are things that a parent who loves and cares for their children will tell their kid(s) that they can do and there are things that the parent will tell their kid(s) that they cannot do. A person who doesn't begin to teach their kid(s) the difference between "yes" and "no"; "do" and "don't"; "you may" and "you may not", that should not have children nor be left in charge of children.
  • In the story about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, there was one rule, ... just one. It wasn't a complicated rule. "Don't eat the fruit from that tree."
  • A rule is meaningless if there are no consequences for breaking the rule and no benefit or reward for obeying the rule.
  • The benefit/reward for obeying the rule was "Adam and Eve could continue to enjoy life in the Garden.
  • The consequence(s) for breaking the rule was "death".
  • Just one rule, and they broke it. And as a consequence, you're in Texas and confuse, when you could have been living in the Garden of Eden.
  • And there's something else that the story explains. Wanna know what that is?
Does the bible say they did not know the difference between good and evil? Did it not say they were aware of it after they ate? If they were not aware they were innocent should not have been punished. In my eyes, the only reason they were made aware of good and evil is that God put a magic spell on the tree and then he punished them so they really knew.

It is not fair, either make your creations innocent or to be aware of good and evil, but if they are made ignorant and innocent they should stay that way as God's creations. there should be no tree of life. Why the heck did God put that tree there fore?????????? He knew they would take when the beautiful snake spoke to them, so knowing that he placed it there anyways and punished them,???????? It is not fair.......
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
IMO, it was more about disobedience than good vs evil.

Nothing evil about eating fruit from a tree. :shrug:

God told them not to and they did it anyway. Sin is disobeying one of God's commandments. For example you got to remove your foreskin. What's evil about having a foreskin?

Adam and Eve were told not to do something by God. They did it anyway. Disobedience doesn't require a knowledge of good and evil.

No, the mythical Christian "god" told them not to eat the fruit, and as usual blew into a rage and punished both Adam and Eve.

Note about that - Isn't it strange how an "all knowing" "god" could not find Adam and Eve in the Garden, nor did he know about what they had done?

Hmm...
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
IMO, it was more about disobedience than good vs evil.

Nothing evil about eating fruit from a tree. :shrug:

God told them not to and they did it anyway. Sin is disobeying one of God's commandments. For example you got to remove your foreskin. What's evil about having a foreskin?

Adam and Eve were told not to do something by God. They did it anyway. Disobedience doesn't require a knowledge of good and evil.

And atheists accuse theists of being too literal.
  1. It wasn't literally a fruit. It was a program to divide reality from holy (whole) into good and evil. Humans got infected with the theological equivalent of a computer virus
  2. Eden was probably the entire Earth
  3. Sin is not about disobedience. I mean, yes, when people disobeyed God they tended to get punished, but it really isn't about that. If you'll notice, as you say, some of these laws are arbitrary. This means, if one of us were God for a day, we could set up laws like "don't eat raw garlic with fish." Is there anything evil about this? Not except a bad combination of gas and foul breath. There is something at work here, and this passage in Genesis has a good insight as to what it is. So here goes, aside from the Ten Commandments (which deal with specific flaws in our relationship with God), most of these laws deal with things that are bad because they are perceived as bad. Knowledge of good and evil.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
  • I'm sure that this will not make a difference in your argument against God's justice, BUT:
    • Genesis, chapter 2 says:
      • 15. The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
      • 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
      • 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
  • In other words, you don't have your story straight. Adam was told don't eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He was NOT told to refrain from eating from the tree of life.
  • Next: I'm guessing that you've never had kids of your own and, probably never been left in charge of anyone else's kids. I say that because it seems to me that you would have serious difficulty teaching the littlest kids the difference between: "Yes, you may do this" and "No, you may not do that." You wouldn't know how to teach that to a little kid who doesn't know the meaning of the words: "No" and "don't do that".
  • Your argument against God's justice is that it's not fair for Him to punish anybody who doesn't know what "No" and "Don't do that" mean, right?
  • Now, there are things that a parent who loves and cares for their children will tell their kid(s) that they can do and there are things that the parent will tell their kid(s) that they cannot do. A person who doesn't begin to teach their kid(s) the difference between "yes" and "no"; "do" and "don't"; "you may" and "you may not", should not have children nor be left in charge of children.
  • In the story about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, there was one rule, ... just one. It wasn't a complicated rule. "Don't eat the fruit from that tree."
  • A rule is meaningless if there are no consequences for breaking the rule and no benefit or reward for obeying the rule.
  • The benefit/reward for obeying the rule was "Adam and Eve could continue to enjoy life in the Garden."
  • The consequence(s) for breaking the rule was "death".
  • Just one rule, and they broke it. And as a consequence, you're in Texas and confused, when you could have been living in the Garden of Eden.
  • And there's something else that the story explains. Wanna know what that is?

And THAT is the gist of the Christian "god", isn't it?

Always with the wrathful worship me and do everything I tell you to do or ELSE!!!!!

However, from the very first time I met The God during my childhood NDE/OBE and thru-out my entire life, he has NEVER demanded that I worship him or even believe the wealth of spiritual information he has blessed me with. Nor has he ever shown even an inkling of all the lower emotions like hate, wrath, horrific cruelty, un-fairness, jealousness, vengeance, etc, etc, etc... as the Christian "god" does.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
So I was listening to the Atheists radio show on youtube again with Matt and one of the other ones I forget the names. Anyways they brought up a fact I never thought about.The bible says that Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil before they ate from the tree of life.

How can God hold them responsible for doing evil when they did not know what evil was? Why did God punish them ????It is not a fair and just God.God was wrong.
it was a test

On Day Six.....Man was only a species
no names, no garden, no law

the garden was an upgrade ….mind and body

to release the new alteration into the environment a test was done
to make sure the alteration hade taken hold

would Man be that creature curious even if death is the pending consequence?
so tell him he will die if he partakes
then wait to see if he does

the test succeeded

so.....release into this world
no more garden
it had served it's purpose and was dismantled
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
So I was listening to the Atheists radio show on youtube again with Matt and one of the other ones I forget the names. Anyways they brought up a fact I never thought about.The bible says that Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil before they ate from the tree of life.

How can God hold them responsible for doing evil when they did not know what evil was? Why did God punish them ????It is not a fair and just God.God was wrong.
... and did you believe them??? I hope not. I see, I am too late. You believed them.
I suggest you stop listening to Atheists' take on the Bible. They evidently know nothing about it. This is an example.
The Bible never ever ever nowhere e v e r said... nowhere ever, that Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil before they ate from the tree of life. :facepalm:
:)
 
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Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
To what end?

So you cannot back up your claim, no big surprise there.

This is a forum where religious beliefs/non-beliefs are discussed and debated. So if you cannot stand your ground and honestly discuss or debate your beliefs, what are you doing here?

The Christian "god" is an over the top wrathful, cruel, un-fair, jealous, vengeful, hateful, etc, etc, etc... evil monster. It says so repeatedly in their very own bible, so stop playing games.

Now if you want to present some solid evidence that proves all of the Christian beliefs are lies, please present it. I do not like all those lies they spread about the True God, so would really like to see what you have.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
So why did God even bother to mention to Adam and Eve that it was a tree of Good and evil if they didn't know what good and evil was in the first place?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
So I was listening to the Atheists radio show on youtube again with Matt and one of the other ones I forget the names. Anyways they brought up a fact I never thought about.The bible says that Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil before they ate from the tree of life.

How can God hold them responsible for doing evil when they did not know what evil was? Why did God punish them ????It is not a fair and just God.God was wrong.

I believe they knew what God had commanded.

They rebelled against God.

I believe God is good and you are wrong. So are you saying it is a good idea to rebel against an all powerful God?

I believe this is a memory thing. God usually removes most of a spirits memory upon reincarnation so he can concentrate on his curret life but the tendency to sin has been around for a very long time. The garden protected them from conditions that would bring out that tendency but Hel interfered because she/he is a trickster.
 
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