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Featured The game of Chinese whispers......

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by JJ50, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    ...….in which players form a line, and the first player comes up with a message and whispers it to the ear of the second person in the line. The second player repeats the message to the third player, and so on. When the last player is reached, they announce the message they heard to the entire group. The first person then compares the original message with the final version.

    I have played that game many times over the years, it is rare for the last player to repeat word for word the original message. How many of us can actually remember the exact words of a conversation we have had with someone a few days ago, let alone many years later? The gospels were written years after Jesus died, nothing was apparently written down during his lifetime. I maintain it is impossible for the writers to have quoted the exact words he is supposed to have spoken. A religion based on what Jesus was supposed to have done during his lifetime is very dodgy indeed when it was written up so long after he was dead.
     
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  2. KAT-KAT

    KAT-KAT Well-Known Member
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    051738016bfbb714711c83198fdaa4130e547.jpg
     
  3. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Christianity based on different principle. That was lost when politicians converted Christianity to mass use.
     
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  4. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    And what principle would that be?
     
  5. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Individual enlightenment through Christ.
     
  6. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh right! Some so called enlightened Christians, are very unpleasant indeed.
     
  7. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    No comment.
     
  8. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    One thing that supports that they remembered oral teaching better at that time is that they did not have books or computers so the only way to learn was from remembering the exact teaching as it was given. today we forget much easier because we have tools that remember for us, so we don't need to go around remembering things exactly.
    But of course the teachings were not only given one time, but it was also given multiple times so more people could take part in it, then it was discussed between the followers and their teacher.
     
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  9. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Same could be said for Buddhism. Buddha and Jesus both relied on an old tradition of oral transmission
     
  10. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    And your evidence to support that claim is? I doubt they would remember the exact words Jesus had said, even if they got the general idea of what he was trying to say.
     
  11. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    Yes you are right :) All the spiritual teachers at that time did teach orally and that is why the teachings did not spread as much as it does today. So let's say Jesus had 1000 people following him after some time, he would still be able to correct them if they had misunderstood something from the teachings. but of today when we only have the bible or the suttas in Buddhism we do have to understand the teachings from the written words since both Jesus and Buddha is no longer in human form and here to guide.

    But a huge problem with all the written teachings today is that humans have added and retracted parts of the teachings, so they are more difficult to enlighten to today then it was when the teacher was here to guide.
     
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  12. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    First of all, there were fewer people who were following Jesus in the beginning so he would be able to correct them if they did understand the teaching wrong. And the disciples around Jesus would be around him all the time and listen to him, discuss topics with him, so they were at the same level of wisdom as Jesus, so when Jesus died on the cross, the disciples would be able to continue the teachings because they had grasped the teaching at the same wisdom level as Jesus. But later on when it was written down, people forgot how to remember orally, and the brain becomes lazy, so today we struggle to see the truth in the teachings of the religions 2000-2500 years ago.
     
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  13. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Part of the reason Jesus spoke his lessons in parables is that they easy to memorized and he wanted to implant the lessons contain in the parable inside of people. Buddha was probably the same
     
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  14. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    Reminds me of the story of the monk in the monastery who races into the dining hall shouting: "We made a mistake, it really says 'celibRate' ".
     
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  15. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    Yes, Buddha did also speak sometimes in parables ( as far as I know) I have heard that both Buddha and Jesus spoke in different levels of wisdom too, depending on who they spoke with. Have you heard of this too?
     
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  16. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    I have not heard of this before :)
     
  17. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Of course he did, when Jesus preached in public he preached in parables, aphorisms and give object lessons, but when alone with the apostle he would speak clearly and explain everything he meant
     
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  18. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    Even if that were true, they still were unlikely to have quoted him word for word many years later.
     
  19. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    to compound the issue even further, there is the problem of the dumb parrot puzzle; wherein a single word can have multiple/many definitions. unlike mathematics language isn't as precise; especially if the translator doesn't have experience of cultural things; such as snow in a desert culture and arid in a arboreal or rainforest culture.


    dumb-parrot puzzle
     
  20. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    There will always be some difference in the words, this is true, but that also means that the truth in the teaching will be less powerful, and this leads to fewer people who will be able to gain higher wisdom or enlightenment status. So a reason you see so much negative around some spiritual groups is that some of the essences in the teachings have been lost now.

    Buddha did say his teaching would start to decline 500 years after he left the physical realm, so yes even we try our best, it is extremely difficult to enlighten to his teachings today
     
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