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The Future of Religion

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Darkdale, Feb 15, 2006.

  1. shema

    shema Active Member

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    I never said that science was not a part of Christianity,a and I never said that I take the bible fully literal. You might want to view my posts.
    I believe that God is in every fiber of life, every atom, every molecule, every blod cell or (clot).
    I do beleive in the big bang theory, however I believe that That's the only way science can explain it without bringing God into it. Its all the same to me.
    I apologize if I remind anyone of some extreme evangalist.
    But to respond to midnight blue




    Number of Earthquakes Worldwide for 2000 - 2006
    Located by the US Geological Survey National Earthquake Information Center


    Magnitude 20002001200220032004200520068.0 to 9.911012 1 0 7.0 to 7.91415131414 10 3 6.0 to 6.9158126130140141 146 13 5.0 to 5.913451243121812031515 1707 129 4.0 to 4.9804580848584846210888 13679 876 3.0 to 3.947846151700576247932 8992 569 2.0 to 2.937584162641977276316 4581 215 1.0 to 1.91026944113725061344 26 2 0.1 to 0.95110134103 0 0 No Magnitude31202938293736082939 856 94 Total2225623534274543141931194 * 29998 * 1901 Estimated
    Deaths231213Number of Earthquakes Worldwide for 2000 - 2006
    Located by the US Geological Survey National Earthquake Information Center


    Magnitude 20002001200220032004200520068.0 to 9.911012 1 0 7.0 to 7.91415131414 10 3 6.0 to 6.9158126130140141 146 13 5.0 to 5.913451243121812031515 1707 129 4.0 to 4.9804580848584846210888 13679 876 3.0 to 3.947846151700576247932 8992 569 2.0 to 2.937584162641977276316 4581 215 1.0 to 1.91026944113725061344 26 2 0.1 to 0.95110134103 0 0 No Magnitude31202938293736082939 856 94 Total2225623534274543141931194 * 29998 * 1901 Estimated
    Deaths23121357168533819 284010 89354 0 57168533819 284010 89354 0

    but to answer Midnightblue, the total number of earthquakes has been increasing since 2000. Its only dropped a little from 2004-2005

    Matthew 24:23 NIV
    Watch out that no one deceives ou. For many will come in my name claiming I am the Christ,(or messiah) and and you will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that ou are not alarmed. Such things must hapen. but the end is still to come. Nation will rise agaisnt nation, and kingdom against kingdome. their will be famines and earthquakes in various places. Allof these are the BEGINNING OF BIRTH PAINS.
     
  2. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    This is the type of blind faith that leads me to believe that Christianity will be around for a great many years to come.
     
  3. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

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    I am hoping that people will realize that for the human race to evolve and survive that religion will be banned and the religious books will all be burnt.....then man can move forward rather than backwards or remain stagnant in growth to be better beings.
     
  4. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    this kind of blind faith is no different from that above.
     
  5. shema

    shema Active Member

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    I guess you can say that it is blind faith, seeing that i have never actually physically seen Jesus, or God.
     
  6. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

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    I said I hoped this will happen .....I don't think it will. How is that blind faith? For example....I think that the current course will prevail and nature will eventually destroy humans on this planet. Just look at the moon and tell me you don't believe that an asteroid will destroy mankind. Its just a matter of time. That is enough evidence for me. Is that blind reasoning?
     
  7. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    :) well, it is a blind hope then. I did misread. My bad.

    I think an asteroid will kill most of mankind, but we are hard to kill. We've made it through a lot already. I don't think religion will kill us either, and I don't think we'd be better off without religion.
     
  8. shema

    shema Active Member

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    I guess for some people, religion is an answer to the problems in their lives. but if you have no problems, you probably dont need it. If you are truly happy and have no needs or wants that you cant get for yourself, then logically their would be no need. As for me I feel like I need jesus to help me make better desicions.and to give me peace
     
  9. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    I'm afraid that lacks whatever formatting might have made it meaningful to me. Do you have a link, instead?

    For that to be meaningful, you need to (1) show that it's true and (2) show that the change over that six-year period is anomalous and significant.

    Here's what you said: "I believe Jesus when he said that the earth will shake just before my return, and it will be hard to tell the seasons apart." In support of that, you cite the scripture above, which says nothing at all about the earth shaking just before Christ's return, and nothing at all about the seasons, much less any difficulty in telling the seasons apart.

    In this passage, Jesus is telling his disciples that these thing "must happen, but the end is still to come." Furthermore, whatever he's speaking about cannot be some future event, since he specifically says "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." The prophecy is either a false prophecy, or it refers to something in the distant past, nearly two millenia ago.

    Go back. Jesus was talking about the destruction of the Temple, and his disciples asked, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" Do you imagine they were asking about his SECOND coming? They weren't; they couldn't have been. You have to read the scriptures in context, not superimposing the fantasies of prophecy crackpots from the 19th century and later.
     
  10. shema

    shema Active Member

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    I apologize my formatting is kind of crazy, however I went to the same site that you gave me. and I never said (view my post) that it would be a drastic change, I was just saying more and more, as the earths plates move more and more.

    I often tend to type in big paragraphs but I meant to single out:

    7.There will be famines and earthquakes in various places,
    All these are the beginning of birth pains..
    reiterate, beginging...birth pains. that can be taken literally, and non-literal

    giving details to

    6....Such things must happen but the end is still to come.

    So there are famines and earthquakes in various places, so Im not too far off in saying that it can be a future event also this is the future from then isnt it? and to say that is to say that this prophesy is not false.

    "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." I am reading from the NIV, and there is a "c" right after "generation",.."generation" was later added to the manuscripts, the origional manusripts translate to "race" and the jews are still here.

    about the seasons, I forgot to quote,
    Matthew 24:17
    How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women, and nursing mothers! Pray that this will not take place in winter becaue those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world until now,
    (30-33a.d)
    and never to be equaled again. If the lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive.

    since the Tsunami isnt time like a minute shorter? im not sure but I think it is.
    I mean, if its a minute short now, then what will it be 500 years from now? or 1000?

    so now that we have critiqued my paraphrase, and formatting, you still read the text for yourself, Matthew 24 is clearly about Signs of the end of the Age. That is the title, so the topic is about each of our religions' views on scientific evidence. so I dont think I have the opinion of a crackpot because I think that God has leaves his impression on the earth physcally. I believe that my opinions are valid and that for some reason it is leaving a bad impression on you. I thought this forum welcomed open-mindedness. I don't believe that I'm superimposing the fantasies of prophecy crackpots from the 19th century and later, Honestly I don't even know any of them, except for the famous ones. Divinci ,I think. Prophesy is not just telling the future. Sylvia Brown can do that. Prophesy is a term used loosely by many. Im just stating how I think scientific history is hand in hand with biblical history.
     
  11. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    I've gotta tell you: If you're at all serious about the Bible, you need to get past the NIV. It's a horrible, tendentious translation. However, my copy of the NIV only gives "race" as an alternate translation of genea, and doesn't suggest that it was added. (If it had been added, what was taken out? There has to be something there for the passage to make sense.)

    Is "race" a good translation? Fact is, nobody seems to think so except the people whose prophetic fantasies are undone if it means "generation." In the words of the New Bible Commentary:
    The NIV margin offers "race" as an alternative to "generation." This suggestion is prompted more by embarrassment on the part of those who think Matthew 24:30 refers to the "parousia" (second coming) rather than by any natural sense of the word "genea"!
    It's some measure of how bad a translation "race" is, that even the editors of the NIV, who don't scruple to revise scripture when it embarrasses their theology, felt the need to relegate it to the margin.

    But even the context tells you this isn't what Jesus means. He and his disciples obviously all expect everything that he's talking about to happen in the lifetime of people then living.

    C.S. Lewis took this verse as proof that Christ didn't know when his second coming would occur: He said "only the Father knows," and then he proved it by making a wrong prediction. That's one possible interpretation, but a far better one is that this scripture doesn't refer to the second coming at all.

    BTW, the word used here is the same Matthew uses when he says, "All the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations."
     
  12. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    Okay, look. I'm really not trying to be mean here, but this again doesn't say one thing about people not being about to tell the seasons apart. That's not a paraphrase. It's something that's not in the Bible at all. It's just not there.

    The thing is, I wonder if that's really your error, or if you're getting this from some preacher. Because if people are telling you stuff like this, and telling you it's in the Bible, they might be nice people and they might do you a lot of good in some ways, but you shouldn't take them seriously when they talk about the Bible.
     
  13. shema

    shema Active Member

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    1.actually, these are my interpretations.
    2.
    Matthew 24:34 (Amplified Bible)

    Amplified Bible (AMP) Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    34Truly I tell you, this generation ([a]the whole multitude of people living at the same time, [b]in a definite, [c]given period) will not pass away till all these things [d]taken together take place
    Matthew 24:34 (New Living Translation)

    New Living Translation (NLT) Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.

    [​IMG]

    34I assure you, this generation[a] will not pass from the scene before all these things take place.



    Footnotes:
    1. Matthew 24:34 Or this age, or this nation
    Matthew 24:34 (New Life Version)

    New Life Version (NLV) Copyright © 1969 by Christian Literature International



    34For sure, I tell you, the people of this day will not pass away before all these things have happened.
    Matthew 24:34 (Contemporary English Version)

    Contemporary English Version (CEV) Copyright © 1995 by American Bible Society

    [​IMG]

    34I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens.


    Question: "What did Jesus mean when He said, 'this generation will not pass'?"



    Answer: This quote of Jesus in regards to the end times is found in Matthew 24:34, Mark 14:30, and Luke 21:32. Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." The key to understanding what Jesus means is understanding the context, that is understanding the verses that are surrounding verse 34, but especially the verses prior to verse 34. If you read Matthew 24:4-31, you will find that Jesus is speaking of events that have not yet happened. The generation of people living when those events occur is the generation that Jesus speaks of "not passing" until He returns. Jesus had already told that those living during His first time on earth that the kingdom had been taken from them (Matthew 21:43). Therefore, it is imperative that Matthew 24-25 be seen as speaking of a future time and that "generation" is referring to the people alive when the events of Matthew 24-25 are occurring. gotquestions.org

    Matthew 23:36 says, " Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation." To whom does " this generation" refer? In this context, " this generation" refers to Christ' s contemporaries because of contextual support. " This generation" is governed or controlled grammatically by the phrase " all these things." All these things refer to the judgments that Christ pronounces in Matthew 22- 23. So we should be seeing that in each instance of " this generation," the use is determined by what it modifies in its immediate context. The scope of use of every occurrence of this generation is determined in the same way.

    The same is true for Hebrews 3:10, which says, " Therefore I was angry with this generation." " This generation" is governed or controlled grammatically by the contextual reference to those who wandered in the wilderness for forty years during the Exodus.



    The Correct View

    Now why does " this generation" in Matthew 24:34 (see also Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32), not refer to Christ' s contemporaries? Because the governing referent to " this generation" is " all these things." Since Jesus is giving an extended prophetic discourse of future events, one must first determine the nature of " all these things" prophesied in verses 4 through 31 to know what generation Christ is referencing. Since " all these things" did not take place in the first century then the generation that Christ speaks of must be future. Christ is saying that the generation that sees " all these things" occur will not cease to exist until all the events of the future tribulation are literally fulfilled. Frankly, this is both a literal interpretation and one that was not fulfilled in the first century. Christ is not ultimately speaking to His contemporaries, but to the generation to whom the signs of Matthew 24 will become evident. Dr. Darrell Bock, in commenting on the parallel passage to Matthew 24 in Luke' s Gospel concurs: ....raptureready.com

    [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]3) Does the word "genea" (Greek - generation) etymologically or philologically always mean people concurrent or living at "that time"? Can the word not also have a broader, more general sense? Those who want to say that the events given in the Olivet Discourse were completed in AD 70 endeavor to support their interpretation by saying that the word "generation", as Jesus used it, means the generation of mankind living contemporaneously with Jesus.


    [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]In William F. Arndt and Wilbur Gingrich's lexicon, a Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1974, the first meaning of genea is "those descended from a common anscestor, a clan, then race, kind," etc. Thayer, in his lexicon, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, says the meaning of genea is "men of the same stock, a family". The Louw and Nida computerized lexicon says that the word "genea" can be understood as "people of the same kind; successive following generations...descendants". The understanding of these lexical references is that the word "genea" can also have a broader, more extended meaning than the limiting view of simply the current generation living at the time concurrent with the speaker. The context must decide which understanding the author has in mind....solagroup.com[/font]

    The phrase does not mean that generation. It means "the modern world." The "modern" world then and the "modern" world now stand equally condemned. They can't be pleased. They reject the timeless way of God and ever seek new amusements. .edeemer-fortwayne.org

    so Im not trying to be mean also Im just stating my belief on the future of religion. and as you can see I (along with some crackpot preacherman as you would think) am not the only one with that belief and it is a good argument (good enough to cause controversy between opposing and united forces) that is only not shared amongst ourselves.

    [/font]
     
  14. Ibrahim Al-Amin

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    Thanks for the interesting info. I just realized that buried somewhere in my CD collection is a Chant from Valaam, or something like that. I think it's Slavonic, but as my CDs are buried in moving boxes, I won't know for some time. Is Valaam a place?
     
  15. Ibrahim Al-Amin

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    Shema's father is a Bishop. I see Shema reading something on the computer, running to tell daddy, then running back with the answer. Isn't that cute?
     
  16. shema

    shema Active Member

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    ok not being able to tell the seasons apart is not in the bible literally. that was not a paraphrase but my interpretation for lack of a better word., The thought that I percieved from it. my thoughts come out rather quickly but i explain them if needed or questioned. but this is definitly in the Bible and defintly what i am talking about in terms of Gods physical effects on the earth and the future of religion:

    How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women, and nursing mothers! Pray that this will not take place in winter becaue those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world until now,
    (30-33a.d)
    and never to be equaled again. If the lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive.

    so would it be safe to say the seasons in this day and age are totally different than from the beginning. if not for biblical reasons, at least for environmental reasons.
    and would it be safe to say that our days have been cut shorter, even if just by minutes.?

    The average temperature throughout the United States was 39.5 degrees in January, according to the National Climatic Data Center. It was the warmest January on record; the average since such data were first collected in 1895 is 31 degrees. washingtonpost.com

    Average winter and annual temperatures during the past three decades were the warmest for 500 years, it says.... news.bbc.co.uk

    Over the past 20 years, scientists have observed longer intervals between major El Niño episodes compared to those in the 1960's and the 1970's, as well as stronger intensity of the events. The century's two most powerful El Niño episodes, in 1982 and 1997, caused flooding and severe weather in the U.S. It has not been clear, however, if those changes are simply statistical "noise," a random clustering of long, strong cycles, or if they result from other long-term changes in global climate. princeton.edu

    Winter has been found to be getting shorter in Seoul while spring and summer are getting longer due mainly to global warming and rapid industrialization.
    hankooki.com/lpage/200501/kt2005011016272910160.htm

    Now,Im not saying these things will be in this day and age, but days are defintly shorter. As Jesus stated. And these are some of the attributes of my belief in the future of religion.
     
  17. shema

    shema Active Member

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    Actually, my father lives in north carolina, and I live in mississippi. Im on my own personal pc in my own house, I have a chain of businesses, and talk to my father like every two weeks or so. we are both very busy. My husband grew up muslim. as a matter of fact, his name is Ibrahim, and my last name is Haque...just like talking about religion.
     
  18. Ibrahim Al-Amin

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    Really? I'm sorry then, honestly. No offense, but some comment before made me think you were some kid at home.
     
  19. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    Bingo.


    Hmmm..... These are your interpretations, but you've cut and pasted from this website and this website and this website. Not accusing you of lying -- after all, you cited your sources. But the fact that you have to cut and paste instead of just expressing your thoughts makes me think you are getting this crap from other people. But where it comes from doesn't matter as much as whether it makes sense.

    And there's no denying that prophecy crackpots can defend their views. They don't do it well, and they don't do it convincingly, but they do it well enough to fool a lot of people -- especially since most people don't really know that much about the Bible.

    What? I thought it meant "race"! Now genea means "the modern world"? I literally threw up my hands when I read that. Think!

    Listen, I can find you all kinds of people who believe all kinds of things. Give me two days advance notice and I can gather 100 people who don't believe in evolution, and 25 who believe Lyndon Johnson ordered the assassination of JFK -- and that's just from among my personal acquaintance. That doesn't mean their views are plausible.

    There is no controversy. Your teachers are using the Bible as my cousins and I used the Ouija board when we were kids. It said what we wanted it to say. The difference is, the Bible does really does say some things, but you have to sit down and read it. I mean the Bible itself, not things about the Bible. That's your first job. I guarantee you, you will not find this stuff in there if you read attentively, and without these prophecy people buzzing in your ear.
     
  20. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    Valaam is a group of islands in Lake Ladoga, in Russia. There is a famous Orthodox monastery, usually called Valaam (or Valamo) Monastery, there. St. Herman of Alaska, probably the best-known American Orthodox saint, was a monk from Valaam who went to Alaska as a missionary.
     
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