The Four Horsemen

[F1fan]

You know If they are being killed for being a Christian in a world war, they will fight to prevent it to save their own life and the lives of their friends and family. Very few people that call themselves Christians actually are one though. Some believe Jesus as their military Christ, will be doing all the killing, and making the choices so they will have no part in it and they won't be harmed. Some believe they will be raptured before the war starts and that will not happen either.
Truth is when a nuclear missile strikes, people of all ages, race and beliefs will die and 7 nuclear empowered nations will fight. It is not going to be a war where only a couple of nuclear bombs are dropped. Fear will cause nations to continue to use nukes in an attempt to cause the war to stop in hopes they will prevail.

Thanks for revealing that Christians are confused and diverse in their many "truths" of Christianity. This confusion and lack of coherency is one reason why I was turned off by this religion when I was a kid. I was astounded how absurd it was as an 8 year old, and also how inconsistent the various sects were. And let's not even bring up the catastrophe of Creationism.

 

[Triumph]

So you are bringing up how confused Christians are as a huge and diverse set of sects that disagree with each other. And frankly it points to how confusing the Bible is, and just how inconsistent interpretations are. It's more reason for observers to not trust what any Christian says, especially about the future.


Well Christians did steal a lot of Jewish ideas and change them dramatically, so there's not much agreement that Jews can have with Christians. The Jewish people are a unique lineage through history, and often vilified for just being part of that lineage, not for policies or acts that inject themselves into the lives of others.

Have you ever read their religious laws? Moses made 614 of them. One states that Jews do not have to pay interest on loans but everyone else does. They also have a law that they are allowed to own slaves. Some Mosaic laws shown in Leviticus state that if you have messy hair, you will die and it is a sin to mix different types of cloth in a garment. Jesus did not steal any Jewish ideas and taught against believing in the Jewish religion and was leading people away from being Jews into a new religion teaching do not mix the 2 religions together. But a Pharisee named Paul leads people back into that Jewish religion to support it by mixing the 2 religions together.

 

[danieldemol]

Would it make sense to have violent people kill off all the righteous people _____________

That's precisely the reason violent thugs like Jesus who kills people based on religion and not based on violence level should be opposed should he return.

( Besides other damage, lots of tire slashings in our area, No one yet caught )

Just to be clear, are you suggesting it is acceptable to murder tire slashers?
If so we have very different ideas about acceptable levels of violence.

Jesus nor his 1st-century followers killed people. Nor did Jesus teach that anyone should live by the sword.

Rehash of your earlier since Jesus was good the first time round argument we should accept Him killing people for not following his religion the second time round [/yawn]

In my opinion

 

[danieldemol]

Pigs in scripture symbolically represent greedy bankers. A dog is a person that will do the commands of the hand that feeds him regardless of if the command is for good or evil and without regard for the consequences.

If scripture is that symbolic it can mean whatever you want it to mean.

But I'm sure an All-knowing Omnipotent God can think of better ways to deal with greedy bankers than killing them.

In my opinion.

 

[Triumph]

That's precisely the reason violent thugs like Jesus who kills people based on religion and not based on violence level should be opposed should he return.


Just to be clear, are you suggesting it is acceptable to murder tire slashers?
If so we have very different ideas about acceptable levels of violence.


Rehash of your earlier since Jesus was good the first time round argument we should accept Him killing people for not following his religion the second time round [/yawn]

In my opinion

Jesus denied Christ was a killer and that is one of the reasons the Jewish leaders wanted to kill him because Jesus denied their concept of a killer Christ that would enable Jews to rule the world. Jesus taught against killing people and told the Jews that He was Christ. The killer in Revelation that steals the name of Jesus (exactly what Jesus said would happen that men would claim to be him but are not) is a "prince" of kings under the order of kings not the Son of God obeying the command thou shalt not kill. Jesus said a prince with nothing in him was coming, and surely that means no mercy or truth. People believe Jesus is a killer because they do not study the Bible carefully, and they believe a lying Pharisee named Paul that does believe in a military Christ Paul named Jesus that will show up to kill everyone that is not a part of their human sacrificing gang.
So millions of people think they are Christians when in truth they are not and they do not listen to what Jesus told them as they become false Jews. Jesus said his path is narrow and few find it and that is truth.
Jesus did not magically turn anyone into a pig, he teaches in symbolism . Jesus was against sons of Abraham that had banking laws that were favorable to their race and unfavorable to other races that were forced to pay high interest rates. Jesus wanted equality across the board, all banking laws exactly the same regardless of gender or race. Jesus did not want bankers to die, remember he selected a tax collector named Matthew to be an Apostle, Jesus wanted their concepts of economy based on greed to perish.

 

[F1fan]

Have you ever read their religious laws? Moses made 614 of them. One states that Jews do not have to pay interest on loans but everyone else does. They also have a law that they are allowed to own slaves. Some Mosaic laws shown in Leviticus state that if you have messy hair, you will die and it is a sin to mix different types of cloth in a garment.

So? Hebrews were a people like any other who had their own authority to make laws for themselves. And it's not like Christians don't commit white collar crimes in financial transactions. And it's not as if Southern Baptists of the Confederation of States used the Old Testament to justify their owning slaves. Or how conservative Christians today oppose gay rights due to Leviticus. So there is plenty of examples of Christians using the Jewish laws for their own ends.

Jesus did not steal any Jewish ideas and taught against believing in the Jewish religion and was leading people away from being Jews into a new religion teaching do not mix the 2 religions together. But a Pharisee named Paul leads people back into that Jewish religion to support it by mixing the 2 religions together.

No one knows if Jesus even existed. But Christianity did steal certain ideas like the Messiah and Salvation and changed the meanings. They applied these new definitions to the character Jesus in Christian lore.

 

[Triumph]

If scripture is that symbolic it can mean whatever you want it to mean.

But I'm sure an All-knowing Omnipotent God can think of better ways to deal with greedy bankers than killing them.

In my opinion.

Again, Jesus never killed anyone, but he did destroy the CONCEPT of inequality in laws. Jesus did not want the rich to have advantage over the poor based on unequal laws. Believe Jesus then believe that females have the same inheritance rights as a male so if her husband dies, she will still have a roof over her head so her children do not have to live in the streets. But Paul wanted the house taken away from the widow and does not care what happens to her children and tells them to stay out of his church. Paul was interested in building a wealthy church, so he was not interested in helping the destitute especially if they were young. Paul would pick and choose what people he would help. Jesus said feed the poor and widows but Paul felt justified in killing the Christian named Stephen that fed the young widows, and their children and Paul does not want to be called a sinner for his murders of innocent people.
Paul called himself a follower of Jesus but he destroyed almost every main doctrine that Jesus had established. People that believe Paul is an Apostle and believe in his doctrine are not Christians even though millions they say they are. They give themselves the title Christian just like Paul gave himself the title of Apostle.

 

[Triumph]

So? Hebrews were a people like any other who had their own authority to make laws for themselves. And it's not like Christians don't commit white collar crimes in financial transactions. And it's not as if Southern Baptists of the Confederation of States used the Old Testament to justify their owning slaves. Or how conservative Christians today oppose gay rights due to Leviticus. So there is plenty of examples of Christians using the Jewish laws for their own ends.


No one knows if Jesus even existed. But Christianity did steal certain ideas like the Messiah and Salvation and changed the meanings. They applied these new definitions to the character Jesus in Christian lore.

Census taken at the time Jesus was born have a written account of Joseph and Mary as the tax collectors wanted an accurate list of what people they could tax. You are still believing that everyone that claim to be a Christian are one when they are not. Baptists believe Paul is an Apostle when the truth is Paul is not so their religious beliefs have been led away from the truth Jesus taught and they went down the wrong path. Catholics even claim their religion is based on Peter when it is not, it is based on Paul and because of it they reject the church Apostle Peter helped establish. Paul's church is called inferior because it is built on the foundation of lies.
The Bible is a book of the future written in parables that explain in detail the final war on Earth that will happen if people do not convert and follow the true Christ, but people are blind to truth and unable to understand symbolism, so that next and final world war is at our doorsteps. You do understand a war being at your doorstep is symbolic, right? It means that war is very soon to happen.

 

[danieldemol]

Jesus denied Christ was a killer and that is one of the reasons the Jewish leaders wanted to kill him because Jesus denied their concept of a killer Christ that would enable Jews to rule the world. Jesus taught against killing people and told the Jews that He was Christ. The killer in Revelation that steals the name of Jesus (exactly what Jesus said would happen that men would claim to be him but are not) is a "prince" of kings under the order of kings not the Son of God obeying the command thou shalt not kill. Jesus said a prince with nothing in him was coming, and surely that means no mercy or truth. People believe Jesus is a killer because they do not study the Bible carefully, and they believe a lying Pharisee named Paul that does believe in a military Christ Paul named Jesus that will show up to kill everyone that is not a part of their human sacrificing gang.
So millions of people think they are Christians when in truth they are not and they do not listen to what Jesus told them as they become false Jews. Jesus said his path is narrow and few find it and that is truth.
Jesus did not magically turn anyone into a pig, he teaches in symbolism . Jesus was against sons of Abraham that had banking laws that were favorable to their race and unfavorable to other races that were forced to pay high interest rates. Jesus wanted equality across the board, all banking laws exactly the same regardless of gender or race. Jesus did not want bankers to die, remember he selected a tax collector named Matthew to be an Apostle, Jesus wanted their concepts of economy based on greed to perish.

Am I correct in understanding that you are a non-member of the Jehovah's Witness church?
My critique was really directed at the teachings of the JW Church.

In my opinion.

 

[Triumph]

Am I correct in understanding that you are a non-member of the Jehovah's Witness church?
My critique was really directed at the teachings of the JW Church.

In my opinion.

I have studied with several churches including the JW but when I saw their doctrine was off track and proved it by scripture, they stopped being interested in converting me.

 

[Triumph]

I have studied with several churches including the JW but when I saw their doctrine was off track and proved it by scripture, they stopped being interested in converting me.

Funny, I have also studied the Catholic doctrine and even though I never joined their church when I pointed out the flaws in their beliefs by scripture, I was unpleasantly "Excommunicated".

 

[metis]

Funny, I have also studied the Catholic doctrine and even though I never joined their church when I pointed out the flaws in their beliefs by scripture, I was unpleasantly "Excommunicated".

Excommunication within the Catholic church can only be done with those who are Catholic. Also, are you sure that the "flaws" are in reality "flaws" or maybe just a difference of opinions?

 

[Triumph]

Excommunication within the Catholic church can only be done with those who are Catholic. Also, are you sure that the "flaws" are in reality "flaws" or maybe just a difference of opinions?

Catholics believe in human sacrifice to a God. They are appalled if an Aztec does it, but feel they attain perfection if they do it.
They believe the Command from God not to kill. They believe God is true justice. But then they think that God demands the death/murder of His innocent Son for crimes he did not commit. That breaks a Command from God and is not justice, it is inequity, injustice. They turn God from being a righteous, loving God into being an unrighteous, unloving tyrant that demands people to agree with murder for a reward.
Worshipping that concept of a God turns people into criminals, sinners, for agreeing an innocent, loving man should die.
In the beginning, the 2 men that worshipped the Living God, our Creator, was Jesus and John the Baptist, not Abraham and Moses.
God sent John for one purpose and that was to teach forsake belief in blood sacrifice to remove sin and accept water baptism for removal of sin. It was a Commandment from God to believe in Water Baptism, not optional for salvation. If the Jews had accepted water baptism, then the murder of Jesus would have never happened.
This is what Jesus said about killing him.
John 6:70
"Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?"
Judas is a devil for believing an innocent man should die so Judas receives a reward for it.
In John 8, "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."
Killing an innocent man is sin and those that believe in it are servants of sin.
40 But now YE SEEK TO KILL ME, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God" The command of God is believe merciful water baptism not actual blood removes sin. But the deeds of their fathers based on Abraham was to believe in killing people that opposed their religious beliefs. They WERE doing the deeds of Abraham their father; Jesus hears the voice of God not Abraham.
Blood sacrifice for sin removal was established in Jewish laws by Abraham. Jesus denies blood sacrifice/murder in the true doctrine words of God and said," And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not." The "blood" of Jesus that washes sin away is belief in water not death/sacrifice for forgiveness of sin. His blood is true doctrine=the Words of God that save people.
Abraham is the father of the lie that God accepts human sacrifice for sin removal. Abraham rejoiced in the day his sons kill Jesus because then Abraham's lies are believed as truth and Abraham remains exalted and honored for his deceptions.
One of Abraham's sons, Pharisee Paul leads people back into Jewish beliefs and tells people to believe in bloody Human Sacrifice.

 

[nPeace]

Many more objective scholars suggest Revelations had to do with the current times of the writers of the book, not the future. I think is a more sound meaning of the book than what some Christians suggest, like this thread.

Objective scholars will think in regards to what is most likely real and true. That's why they are more credible.

You think so? So you believe the prophecy was fulfilled then? Cool. When?
Please, leave no details out. What year? What events... etc? Oh boy. My palms are sweating! I can't wait!

 

[nPeace]

Well, tht is my point. Those things we see today have been happening all the time. So, I think the prophecy is a bit silly. It is like saying, verily, verily I say to you, some people will die before being 40 years old.

i have to ask. Sad, but so what? Everybody can make that sort of prophecy.

ciao

- viole

viole, viole. I have to wonder...
No one has said that there were never wars, famine, etc. before the fulfillment of prophecy.
Your mom did not say to you, "Child. Catch the school bus. There is only one bus. No other."
We would all expect that to be silly.

Similarly, The end time prophecies were told to the followers of Christ. Actually, all of us has access to his words... but how silly if someone thought Jesus didn't know about wars, and hunger, and diseases.
Why. The man experience storms..

Anyway, I understand your feelings.
Perhaps now is not the time.

Just to clarify though.
What is "new", is as I mentioned before - their increase will be distinct; The scale on which they are occurring will be distinct, and they are all occurring all during the same period.

Even those who don't want to take notice, are forced to take notice. For example... Man-made earthquakes are getting more common due to poor planning in infrastructural activities like fracking for oil, dam-building, pumping gas without re-filling. Another reason attributed by scientists for increasing earthquakes is the cooling of earth.

Interestingly, this too was prophesied. Revelation 11:18

 

[nPeace]

Thanks for revealing that Christians are confused and diverse in their many "truths" of Christianity. This confusion and lack of coherency is one reason why I was turned off by this religion when I was a kid. I was astounded how absurd it was as an 8 year old, and also how inconsistent the various sects were. And let's not even bring up the catastrophe of Creationism.

Understandably, if one lumps any and every person or group of persons into one basket, and label's them Christian, they are bound to come to a wrong conclusion, based on a flawed presupposition.
So it's no wonder.

Did you at eight years old know anything about the Bible? Not likely, and for the vast majority of church-goers today, is it any different? Nope.
No doubt their parents professed to be Christian too... and are we not a gullible lot, who just nodded our head, and said, "Yip!"

 

[loverofhumanity]

I hope one of the Baha'is has the courage to stand up for their prophet. He claimed he was the return of Christ, and Baha'is say that he has fulfilled all the prophecies. Including what it says in Revelation, that he will come with a new name, and come in the "Glory" of the Father, and that he is the third "Woe" in Revelation 8:13. And that was more than 150 years ago.

But I'm sure you don't believe that. But then who was he, and how does he fit into Revelation? Either way, it just shows that Revelation can be made to say anything and prove anything you want it to.

CG you seem to have answered your own questions. A lot of what’s happening now is because we have chosen to go our own way and ignore the counsels of Baha’u’llah which would have averted many problems.

 

[F1fan]

Census taken at the time Jesus was born have a written account of Joseph and Mary as the tax collectors wanted an accurate list of what people they could tax. You are still believing that everyone that claim to be a Christian are one when they are not. Baptists believe Paul is an Apostle when the truth is Paul is not so their religious beliefs have been led away from the truth Jesus taught and they went down the wrong path. Catholics even claim their religion is based on Peter when it is not, it is based on Paul and because of it they reject the church Apostle Peter helped establish. Paul's church is called inferior because it is built on the foundation of lies.

Well I defer to the most objective scholars, not the dogmatic scholars. It's unknown if a Jesus actually existed, and highly unlikely the myth of him is true.

The Bible is a book of the future written in parables that explain in detail the final war on Earth that will happen if people do not convert and follow the true Christ, but people are blind to truth and unable to understand symbolism, so that next and final world war is at our doorsteps. You do understand a war being at your doorstep is symbolic, right? It means that war is very soon to happen.

Well whatever it is it has spawned thousands of different interpretations, and that suggests it is not clear enough. I've read it and it certainly offers no clear vision for a 21st century.

 

[F1fan]

You think so? So you believe the prophecy was fulfilled then? Cool. When?

Well, the prophesy was likely just more embellishment. But as I said I defer to objective scholars, and they deal with reality, and don't assume the dogma is true.

The whole prophesy of Jesus' return is a little strange because what is God waiting for? So many Christians have believed the End Times have arrived, and then let down. Damn. Some believers were so certain they gave all their belongings away and then were in serious trouble trying to get their stuff back.

Please, leave no details out. What year? What events... etc? Oh boy. My palms are sweating! I can't wait!

Well then take 5 minutes and take care of it. Just make sure your mom doesn't catch you.

 

[F1fan]

Understandably, if one lumps any and every person or group of persons into one basket, and label's them Christian, they are bound to come to a wrong conclusion, based on a flawed presupposition.
So it's no wonder.

I'm acknowledging there are bout 44,000 sects under the umbrella of Christianity. This is organized groups who interprets the Bible to be very liberal and even socialist, all the way to the right with the KKK, who think Jesus is a racist. Somehow Jesus' sacrifice covers all these diverse believers.

Did you at eight years old know anything about the Bible? Not likely, and for the vast majority of church-goers today, is it any different? Nope.

I knew a little about the Bible. But I was also already a smart kid who was able to observe the hypocrisy of Christians. I wasn't able to articulate the dilemma of what I saw, but I recognized a problem with what the Bible says and how these believers behaved.

No doubt their parents professed to be Christian too... and are we not a gullible lot, who just nodded our head, and said, "Yip!"

You are not cheer leading the character of your fellow Christians. So are you admitting some have faulty beliefs? If so, how did that happen?