The folly of arguing about religion

[Mark Dohle]

oh yes the intellect. Theology into philosophy into political into madness.

Suddenly love disappears from the conversation! So now when you see a debate is it love as i define it or is it love? . There ya go, understand the difference and the debates will now be seen as mad arguing with mad. Love is love till we label, quantify, classify, and create, an infinite set of wrongs intellectually! And now we watch two rocks argue and debate. Scientificially vs religiously. And an infinite set more. Rocks will be rocks dead. Alive barely with some tiny flicker of love in there somewhere barely.

Hell my river river rocks are more alive i love em. I listen to the voice as the water caresses over the rocks making a sound of many tongues and becoming one song.

There is no divide between science and religion, it resides in the heart of each.

Peace
Mark

 

[Mark Dohle]

Whether sharing a beer or bread it invites dialogue which, I think is the point of the thread. But true dialogue is not a closing off as in debate, it requires a respective listening, beginning with what is held in common. I think EVERY religion has its own brand of ultra orthodoxy which turns a deaf ear to any other possibility as it is closed in on itself.

Too simplic a position, i think there are all types of people in any group, interchangable.

peace
Mark

 

[John muir]

There is no divide between science and religion, it resides in the heart of each.

Peace
Mark

Otherwise we have a fractured being. Spot on mark. Fractured arguing for fractured with fractured arguing for their fractured is a fractured mess. Such is the world is today. Religious debates are the fractured. Hate to "break" the news!!!!! Ha funny pun.

 

[pearl]

God is not a nature God, He reveals himself as Infinite and loving, we reduce God to something we can understand, which is a god just like us

There is no intellectual 'understanding' of God, no way of 'knowing' God beyond what he has revealed, he remains an incomprehensible Mystery and that is the only absolute we can know of this Mystery we named God. You have accurately stated the problem (we reduce God to something we can understand, which is a god just like us), Is that it, or do you offer any solutions, hope, direction or chalk it up to a lost cause?

 

[etong]

If you are a Christian, Let me ask you something: Have you ever read the Bible and noticed how much insanity it contains?

Here is a very simple example in Exodus 31:

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, Because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death

Did they really stone people to death for something as silly as working on the Sabbath? According to Numbers 15 they did:

32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, A man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, Because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp. ” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, As the Lord commanded Moses.

What kind of “god” would behave this way, Demanding death for something so trivial? The answer is easy: an imaginary god made up by deranged people in a primitive, Pre-scientific society.

Is insane the right word? The dictionary defines the word insanity in this way:

extreme folly or unreasonableness; something utterly foolish or unreasonable

Is it utterly foolish and unreasonable to kill someone because they collect wood on the wrong day of the week? Of course it is.

I would ask you to consider this new way of thinking: Understand and accept that a great number of the ideas, Rules, Decrees, Etc. Found in the Bible can be best described as insane. Become a rational, Objective person and accept this obvious conclusion, Instead of avoiding it or trying to apologize your way around the insanity.

There are so many other places where we can find insanity like this. In Deuteronomy 22 we find:

20 If, However, The charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death.

If there is no evidence that a young woman is a virgin, She is stoned to death in front of her house. Can we agree that this is insane?

Then there is this:

22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, Both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.

The death penalty for adultery? That is insane.

And this:

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, And the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

Also insane. And then:

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, For he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

This is “God’s law”. There is no question that such a law is appalling, Because it treats women as property and forces women to marry their rapists. This article offers additional details.

If you are a Christian, Years of training and indoctrination can make it extremely difficult to acknowledge even the most obvious problems with your religion. But please, Please try to accept this simple fact: verses like these represent insanity. Then understand that the reason for such insanity is the fact that the “god” in the Bible is imaginary.

You can use these insane verses in the Bible to gain perspective. Reading them, You know that something is wrong here. Use that knowledge as a foundation, Approach your religion objectively from that foundation, And you will find hundreds of other facts that all tell you that God is imaginary.

Your life will be greatly improved by stepping away from insanity.


Taken from "How God Works"

 

[John muir]

If you are a Christian, Let me ask you something: Have you ever read the Bible and noticed how much insanity it contains?

Here is a very simple example in Exodus 31:

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, Because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death

Did they really stone people to death for something as silly as working on the Sabbath? According to Numbers 15 they did:

32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, A man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, Because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp. ” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, As the Lord commanded Moses.

What kind of “god” would behave this way, Demanding death for something so trivial? The answer is easy: an imaginary god made up by deranged people in a primitive, Pre-scientific society.

Is insane the right word? The dictionary defines the word insanity in this way:

extreme folly or unreasonableness; something utterly foolish or unreasonable

Is it utterly foolish and unreasonable to kill someone because they collect wood on the wrong day of the week? Of course it is.

I would ask you to consider this new way of thinking: Understand and accept that a great number of the ideas, Rules, Decrees, Etc. Found in the Bible can be best described as insane. Become a rational, Objective person and accept this obvious conclusion, Instead of avoiding it or trying to apologize your way around the insanity.

There are so many other places where we can find insanity like this. In Deuteronomy 22 we find:

20 If, However, The charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death.

If there is no evidence that a young woman is a virgin, She is stoned to death in front of her house. Can we agree that this is insane?

Then there is this:

22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, Both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.

The death penalty for adultery? That is insane.

And this:

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, And the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

Also insane. And then:

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, For he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

This is “God’s law”. There is no question that such a law is appalling, Because it treats women as property and forces women to marry their rapists. This article offers additional details.

If you are a Christian, Years of training and indoctrination can make it extremely difficult to acknowledge even the most obvious problems with your religion. But please, Please try to accept this simple fact: verses like these represent insanity. Then understand that the reason for such insanity is the fact that the “god” in the Bible is imaginary.

You can use these insane verses in the Bible to gain perspective. Reading them, You know that something is wrong here. Use that knowledge as a foundation, Approach your religion objectively from that foundation, And you will find hundreds of other facts that all tell you that God is imaginary.

Your life will be greatly improved by stepping away from insanity.


Taken from "How God Works"

Ther ya go the church has many class rooms you can go into the spec ed class with the smart kids that struggle with simplicity of truth. Here Is grown up passage from a grown up. when you grow up then you can talk about the bible as a grown up.

 

[etong]

Ther ya go the church has many class rooms you can go into the spec ed class with the smart kids that struggle with simplicity of truth. Here Is grown up passage from a grown up. when you grow up then you can talk about the bible as a grown up.

HHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAh, Ready for a test

Let's begin

Actually if you read your bible morality is forced upon you, Or you die. Its that simple. Here's a morality test for you. Let's see how well you do? All of these 6 questions clearly require a "no" answer. If in any possible way you state "yes", Then you are as completely immoral as your god. Now if you state "no", Then you disobey your god. So which is proper? Btw, Since you were stupid enough to mention "the 10 commandments, 4 of the 10 commandments are here and require your death if not obeyed. Btw, If you say "yes" to any of the 6 questions, Then don't even bother with another argument as you will prove that you are completely bankrupt and immoral, A true racist pig, And do not belong here among humanity and rightly deserve to paint smiley faces on black holes for the rest of your life. Ready imbecile?
According to your god you should be put to death if you blaspheme. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Leviticus 24:16, According to your god you should be put to death if you work on the sabbath. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Exodus 31:14, And Numbers 15: 32-36, According to your god you should be put to death if you curse at your parents. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, Mark 7:10, Matthew 15:4, According to your god you should be put to death if you commit adultery. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Leviticus 20:10. That's directly from your 10 commandments. Here are some other things that YOUR god thinks you should be put to death for. . . According to your god you should be put to death if you are a homosexual? Do you think that's a good idea? Y___? N____? Leviticus 20:13, According to your god you should be put to death if you do not worship him. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Deuteronomy 13: 9-10 and Deuteronomy 17: 2-5.

 

[John muir]

HHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAh, Ready for a test

Let's begin

Actually if you read your bible morality is forced upon you, Or you die. Its that simple. Here's a morality test for you. Let's see how well you do? All of these 6 questions clearly require a "no" answer. If in any possible way you state "yes", Then you are as completely immoral as your god. Now if you state "no", Then you disobey your god. So which is proper? Btw, Since you were stupid enough to mention "the 10 commandments, 4 of the 10 commandments are here and require your death if not obeyed. Btw, If you say "yes" to any of the 6 questions, Then don't even bother with another argument as you will prove that you are completely bankrupt and immoral, A true racist pig, And do not belong here among humanity and rightly deserve to paint smiley faces on black holes for the rest of your life. Ready imbecile?
According to your god you should be put to death if you blaspheme. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Leviticus 24:16, According to your god you should be put to death if you work on the sabbath. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Exodus 31:14, And Numbers 15: 32-36, According to your god you should be put to death if you curse at your parents. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, Mark 7:10, Matthew 15:4, According to your god you should be put to death if you commit adultery. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Leviticus 20:10. That's directly from your 10 commandments. Here are some other things that YOUR god thinks you should be put to death for. . . According to your god you should be put to death if you are a homosexual? Do you think that's a good idea? Y___? N____? Leviticus 20:13, According to your god you should be put to death if you do not worship him. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Deuteronomy 13: 9-10 and Deuteronomy 17: 2-5.

There ya go ignoring the adult. Unicorn chasing..

 

[etong]

There ya go ignoring the adult. Unicorn chasing..

Of course, you are running away from my test,

 

[John muir]

Of course, you are running away from my test,

1+1 is 2. There ya go. Rather sime find me a defective and sinner cloud and we can discuss your non existent unicorns. In none existent rarer than unicorn reality. Since we all know god is love as adults you might check there first. Oh never mind you domt understamd the topic. Spec ed class i am sure yoj will fimd many infants there ready to argue and many have gray hair even.

 

[etong]

1+1 is 2. There ya go. Rather sime find me a defective and sinner cloud and we can discuss your non existent unicorns. In none existent rarer than unicorn reality. Since we all know god is love as adults you might check there first. Oh never mind you domt understamd the topic. Spec ed class i am sure yoj will fimd many infants there ready to argue and many have gray hair even.

HAHAHA

 

[John muir]

HAHAHA

Bring me your rarer than unicorns child..

 

[etong]

Bring me your rarer than unicorns child..

I have to add that one to the list, that is too funny

 

[John muir]

I have to add that one to the list, that is too funny

Your heads filled with rarer thans . Go over to the kiddie room where they all believe in defective sinner clouds. Adults dont see that way. Nope the all about me is dead in the adult room. Kinda empty room actually it sees reality as it is and starts with love, un seen, not fantasy and it sees the fantasy of its rarer than unicorns for what it is. ..
.

 

[stvdv]

The folly of arguing about religion

Thanks for your wonderful words. I agree for 100% to the title. Reading this gives me hope, that one day peace will be on earth.

 

[stvdv]

To love others more deeply, we need to grow in understanding of their own faith walk, even if it is from a tradition different from ours. God, belongs to no one, we are God’s children, God is not our pet

This became easier when I realized, that My religion is not the only way to reach the goal and my belief is not better than the (non) belief of others

 

[David1967]

Whether sharing a beer or bread it invites dialogue which, I think is the point of the thread. But true dialogue is not a closing off as in debate, it requires a respective listening, beginning with what is held in common. I think EVERY religion has its own brand of ultra orthodoxy which turns a deaf ear to any other possibility as it is closed in on itself.

Well said.

View attachment 31358

The folly of arguing about religion

‘Overcoming evil with weapons of love becomes the way in which each person can contribute to the peace of all. Christians and believers of different religions are called to walk this path, together with those who accept the universal moral law. Dear brothers and sisters, promoting peace in the world is our common mission!’

Homily on 38th World Day of Peace, January 1, 2005 ​

As a Christian, I do believe that Jesus Christ is a revelation given to the world that points to a deep truth. A basic truth that is often denied by Christians, myself included, lived out for all to see, in how we speak and treat others who think and believe differently.

‘Agape” is the love taught by Jesus, and he asks us to live out of that reality. What is this love, “Agape”. It is the revelation of Christ Jesus, teaching about the love of the Father. In the story of the “prodigal son”, which I believe is the heart of our faith, pointing to the infinite loving Heart, of the Father.

Who is our neighbor? For Christians, as taught us by Christ Jesus, it is the one that we fear, perhaps hate, be it a person, or group. When we fail (when I fail) we as Christians allow violence, hatred, and contempt to grow, which is more or less the default position of mankind, since it seems to be instinctive, to distrust ‘others’.

I do not see, or experience, any difference from Christians as I do with other people who are defensive of others, and freely express their disdain towards those who believe and think differently. It leads only to further chaos and the growth of the cancer of hatred.

For me it is only by allowing the love of God to break open our hearts, to make them flesh again, can we grow in our love of God and others. My heart still has many stony areas in it. I experience them when I get angry, or anxious when my defenses go up and I want to defend myself from others. It is in these times that I seek the Lord more deeply since I know from experience that it is only by grace, by responding to God’s call, that healing can come. When it is experienced, I do not always know where it came from, or how it happened, sort of like the Holy Spirit, who breathes where He wills. It is the Spirit that groans within my heart, and I believe in the hearts of all men, who seek healing, peace, and reconciliation with others.

Love of self has to come first, for once we understand the God loved us from eternity, in spite of our sins, that we can learn to love ourselves. We learn to love others more deeply the more we understand God’s love for us. To love others more deeply, we need to grow in understanding of their own faith walk, even if it is from a tradition different from ours. God, belongs to no one, we are God’s children, God is not our pet.—Br.MD

Beautiful post Mark.

 

[blü 2]

View attachment 31358

The folly of arguing about religion

‘Overcoming evil with weapons of love becomes the way in which each person can contribute to the peace of all. Christians and believers of different religions are called to walk this path, together with those who accept the universal moral law. Dear brothers and sisters, promoting peace in the world is our common mission!’

Homily on 38th World Day of Peace, January 1, 2005 ​

As a Christian, I do believe that Jesus Christ is a revelation given to the world that points to a deep truth. A basic truth that is often denied by Christians, myself included, lived out for all to see, in how we speak and treat others who think and believe differently.

‘Agape” is the love taught by Jesus, and he asks us to live out of that reality. What is this love, “Agape”. It is the revelation of Christ Jesus, teaching about the love of the Father. In the story of the “prodigal son”, which I believe is the heart of our faith, pointing to the infinite loving Heart, of the Father.

Who is our neighbor? For Christians, as taught us by Christ Jesus, it is the one that we fear, perhaps hate, be it a person, or group. When we fail (when I fail) we as Christians allow violence, hatred, and contempt to grow, which is more or less the default position of mankind, since it seems to be instinctive, to distrust ‘others’.

I do not see, or experience, any difference from Christians as I do with other people who are defensive of others, and freely express their disdain towards those who believe and think differently. It leads only to further chaos and the growth of the cancer of hatred.

For me it is only by allowing the love of God to break open our hearts, to make them flesh again, can we grow in our love of God and others. My heart still has many stony areas in it. I experience them when I get angry, or anxious when my defenses go up and I want to defend myself from others. It is in these times that I seek the Lord more deeply since I know from experience that it is only by grace, by responding to God’s call, that healing can come. When it is experienced, I do not always know where it came from, or how it happened, sort of like the Holy Spirit, who breathes where He wills. It is the Spirit that groans within my heart, and I believe in the hearts of all men, who seek healing, peace, and reconciliation with others.

Love of self has to come first, for once we understand the God loved us from eternity, in spite of our sins, that we can learn to love ourselves. We learn to love others more deeply the more we understand God’s love for us. To love others more deeply, we need to grow in understanding of their own faith walk, even if it is from a tradition different from ours. God, belongs to no one, we are God’s children, God is not our pet.—Br.MD

A title like 'The Folly of Arguing About Religion' followed by supernatural assertions about the reality of God and the Holy Spirit demonstrates with remarkable clarity the wisdom of arguing about religion.

 

[pearl]

A title like 'The Folly of Arguing About Religion' followed by supernatural assertions about the reality of God and the Holy Spirit demonstrates with remarkable clarity the wisdom of arguing about religion.

Maybe you confuse faith with religion?

 

[blü 2]

Maybe you confuse faith with religion?

Perhaps. However, I can think of many things that require faith ─ paper and electronic money, backing the Minnesota Vikings &c ─ whereas I can't think of any religion that doesn't.