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The False Hope of Bipartisanship in American Politics

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by joe1776, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    John Hickenlooper of Colorado, candidate for the Senate: “Maybe I’m going to be cruelly disappointed. But I don’t think so,” he told Vox. “I think this is that moment in time where the American people have had enough, that they’ve been pushed into these two tribal camps that won’t speak to each other. If Steve Bullock wins in Montana, and Mark Kelly wins in Arizona, and I win — we’re going to have 10 Democratic senators from the Rocky Mountain West. We are pragmatic. We are problem solvers, by nature.”

    If Hickenlooper is sincere, he's going to be cruelly disappointed because there is very little that both sides in this ongoing cultural war can agree on. The majority of this nation, especially its younger portion, wants progress. The minority wants to stall that progress and, with fewer votes, the only way they can do it is by jamming the machinery, an easy thing to do in our antiquated decision-making system.

    The system needs to be replaced, but until then, it can be made to work better for the majority of Americans. Here are some of the ways that will favor the majority opinion of Americans but will not get bipartisan support:

    • Tough campaign finance laws. Take money and lobbying out of the system as much as possible.
    • End the Electoral College
    • Enlarge the Supreme Court to 33 members randomly selected by computer from judges with X years experience on the bench.
    • End the filibuster.
    • End the practice of attaching riders to popular bills.
    • Weaken the presidency. One individual should not have the power to deny the interests of the majority.
     
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  2. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Ohhh... how a roller coast downward spiral that will bring.

    Then again, there is a growing youth contingency that think "progressiveness" equals disintegration and are rising to the occasion.

    There seems to always be a remnant.
     
  3. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Sounds somewhat good. Just as long as the people retain the ability voice their opinion.

    a disaster if implemented

    Seems too burdensome and who is creating the algorithm for the judges.

    no. We want gridlock.

    YES! YES! YES!



    ??? have no idea what that means. Maybe limit executive orders?


    I would add... No balanced budge - no spending - everything stops - until they balance the budget.
     
  4. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    You are supporting my main premise that bipartisanship is a false hope.
     
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  5. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Yes, true.

    The positions are diametrically opposed.
     
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  6. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    First point is great. Special interest and campaign financing has proven just how much a cancer it is.

    Second is not a good idea. We are a representative public and the elimination of the Electoral College would leave less populated states and groups of people without a voice.
    Policy would always thereafter favor large cities with dense populations and small rural towns and villages with less people would be left to essentially rot. Its whats happening in New York where NYC dictates its own preferred policy for the entire state leaving those ares essentially ignored and decimated because most of the population lives on the east coast.

    Three is destructive beyond words. Using AI in that matter only spells trouble. Look at what it's done already to people. Its a quick and fast road track into dystopia under a false veneer of prosperity and progress.

    Four is great. Ending filibusters will bring people to the table sooner and force compromises to be made rather then putting things off and getting nothing done.

    Five is another great one. Earmarks and riders should have no place whatsoever in politics. Issues should be strictly stand alone and other concerns should have their own exclusive platform.

    Six is a concern when you tamper with the executive branch in that way, there's no doubt there needs to be hobbling and protections put in place. That also applies to our runaway judiciary branch of government which also has excessive unequal powers that affects the coequal branches of government that the founding fathers put in place.
     
  7. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    OK

    The Electoral College magnifies the power of the biased Supreme Court. Whether he has a 5-3 or a 6-3 conservative advantage, Trump can move a close election into the court and steal the election.That means the Democrats need a clear-cut win to take power.

    Without the College, states with three percent, nine percent, or with twelve percent of the vote might then be awarded an equivalent percentage of the budget set aside for the states. The governor of the state would then be responsible for using the cash fairly. It would also save 16 billion (the cost of Census).

    Artificial intelligence isn't necessary. A list of judges with say 10 years experience on the bench would be simple data collection and verification. The random selection by computer of 33 would insure an unbiased court, as opposed to one with members appointed by the party in power.

    If you agree that there needs to be hobbling and protections, I won't quibble.

    Thanks for your comments.
     
    #7 joe1776, Sep 25, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  8. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    As for the last point, about weakening the presidency, I've often thought that President and Vice-President should be considered separate offices, voted on separately - not as one combined ticket. I also think that various cabinet level posts should also be elected positions, not appointed. Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, Secretary of Homeland Security, Attorney General, etc. - all elected offices. I would even think consideration should be given to include the CIA, FBI, and NSA Directors as elected offices as well. They would still be subordinate to the president and bound to follow presidential executive orders, but they would have to be made public. There couldn't be any secret orders, except in cases of dire national urgency.
     
  9. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Your idea has never occurred to me --- and I don't want to be too quick to judge -- but my first thought is that it's the complete opposite approach of my own forecast. I envision our next system to involve no elected leaders at all and your approach would create more of them.

    I foresee leaderless online expert panels doing the governing. I expect them to begin as advisory panels until they are trusted.

    Here's a thread I authored on the topic if you're interested.

    The Future of International Expert Advisory Panels
     
  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Campaign finance laws give more power to the media,
    who can express their own agendas without limit because
    they don't pay for their own speec.

    But there's a wrinkle....I recall one radio host who was
    dinged for campaign finance law violation because there
    was an "in kind" value assigned to his advocacy.
    This would be a real can of worms for agenda laden
    news sources like NYT, NPR, OAN, Fox, etc. It might
    result in enforced neutrality...as determined by the
    party in power. Selective prosecution, eh.
     
  11. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    The media seems to me to be biased, but equally so on both the progressive and the conservative sides. So, if equal, does it matter how much how much power they have?

    I think the aim should be to take actual money out of the process so that the minority opinion, like the NRA's, could not sabotage the policy-making process. The NRA could spend its money on more ads but I doubt that that would be nearly as effective as the bribery of politicians.

    Do you oppose campaign finance reform?
     
  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    The false hope of bipartisanship? Your hope, not mine.
     
  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    But do the have equal effect on audiences?
    I don't know about that.
    But it's still a lot of relative power to hand them.
     
  14. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I agree to a degree with some of these aspirations, but taken as whole it is chaotic idealistic aspirations.
     
  15. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    I strongly suggest you let that one go because it's never going to happen, mostly due to our astronomically bloated military spending.
     
  16. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    What's wrong with ideals? Too jaded?
     
  17. MNoBody

    MNoBody Well-Known Member

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    the last big push to affect politics in the 60's spiraled out into the weeds due to the drug epidemic the state introduced to curb such pesky livestock from tinkering in their managers affairs.....
    they have played those cards, to the detriment of societal progress, the cancer has become terminal....now it is a virus......hmm
    what could go wrong?
     
  18. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    No, but Utopian ideals of the 18th and 20th centuries have always crashed in the reality of a divided reality.
     
  19. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Screen Shot 2020-09-25 at 9.33.54 PM.png

    Not just Military. Health care gets the prize... but people want to expand that further.

    Pensions are bigger too!

    And look at the interest... someone is making money!!

    Was Government suppose created to give Health Care? or Protection? But plenty to fix all the way around.
     
  20. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    Our health system is so bloated because it's highly inefficient and broken. We would probably pay less if we overhauled it and had a single payer system replace it.
     
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