1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SeekingAllTruth, May 18, 2021.

Tags:
  1. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    19,059
    Ratings:
    +1,435
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe the rational explanation is that the Holy Spirit provided the information just as Jesus promised He would.
     
  2. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    19,059
    Ratings:
    +1,435
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe Matthew, Mark and John were Jewish
     
  3. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    19,059
    Ratings:
    +1,435
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe that they are the literal words of Jesus.
     
  4. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    37,043
    Ratings:
    +32,817
    Religion:
    None

    No doubt, assuming they actually exited
     
  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    44,531
    Ratings:
    +26,835
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Why would you believe that? Especially since there are differences between the Gospels.

    Do you realize that none of the Gospels are based upon "eyewitness testimony"?
     
  6. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2020
    Messages:
    1,570
    Ratings:
    +850
    Religion:
    agnostic deist
    There's nothing rational about that except in a Christian's mind. You're actually saying an anonymous writer sat down and took notes while the HS dictated to him every single word Jesus spoke????????
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Messages:
    52,477
    Ratings:
    +18,676
    Religion:
    None
    Okay, so to summarize your position so far:

    The span of time between the crucifixion and the writing of the Epistles is 25 to 35 years, unless . . .

    . . . we use "simple math" (as opposed to whatever math we were previously using) at which point it becomes 20 to 25 years, although . . .

    . . . It's really more like a 100+ years, since the Epistles were actually written by Macion sometime in the second century, but . . .

    . . . scholars generally agree that they were written sometime between 50 and 56 CE. so let's go with that
    .


    Okay, all caught up. :D
     
  8. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2020
    Messages:
    1,570
    Ratings:
    +850
    Religion:
    agnostic deist
    [​IMG]
     
  9. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2020
    Messages:
    1,570
    Ratings:
    +850
    Religion:
    agnostic deist
    You're off a little bit. No problem. You said epistles written 50-56 CE. I said the generally accepted year of Jesus crucifixion is 30 CE. 50 - 30 = 20. 56 - 30 = 26. Span according to YOUR dating of the epistles = 20-26 years. With me so far? ;)
     
  10. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Messages:
    52,477
    Ratings:
    +18,676
    Religion:
    None
    That isn't actually what you said, but we'll just add it to the long and ever-changing menu. :thumbsup:
     
  11. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2020
    Messages:
    1,570
    Ratings:
    +850
    Religion:
    agnostic deist
    Sure, no problem. ;) as long as you understand the basic gist of my OP: Jesus never said the words ascribed to him in the gospels. They were made up by the gospel writers. They had to be. No way around that historically. :)
     
  12. actsfourthirty

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2021
    Messages:
    146
    Ratings:
    +23
    Religion:
    Roman Catholic
    by the Holy Spirit 2 Tim 3:16

    And they were eye witnesses Jn 1:7 Jn 1:14
     
  13. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    1,817
    Ratings:
    +715
    Religion:
    Not religious
    You're confused with john 1. The "witness" that is referring to is not the author who wrote John 1.
     
  14. actsfourthirty

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2021
    Messages:
    146
    Ratings:
    +23
    Religion:
    Roman Catholic
    there is only one apostle John
     
  15. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    The writers were ' carried along by the Holy Spirit ' . The scriptures are ' God breathed '
     
  16. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    Acts 1
    1┬ÂThe former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
     
  17. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,561
    Ratings:
    +540
    Religion:
    Faithful Jesus believer
    The Bible was planed by Jesus and passed down to the disciples to get it written after his time came.

    Matt 16:18 and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
     
  18. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    1,817
    Ratings:
    +715
    Religion:
    Not religious
    There's no evidence that the author of John is in fact the apostle John.
     
Loading...