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Featured the existence of god is a scientific fact

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by bondwoman, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. bondwoman

    bondwoman New Member

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    This excerpt called ‘Science Discovers Intelligent Order’ is taken from page 6 of The Yoga of Jesus by Paramahansa Yogananda.

    “The rise of science served to extend the range of nature’s marvels, so that today we have discovered order in the deepest recesses of the atom and among the grandest collection of galaxies,” writes Paul Davies, Ph.D., well-known author and professor of mathematical physics, in Evidence of Purpose: Scientists Discover the Creator (New York: Continuum Publishing, 1994).

    Systems theorist Ervin Laszlo reports in The Whispering Pond: A Personal Guide to the Emerging Vision of Science (Boston: Element Books, 1999): “The finetuning of the physical universe to the parameters of life constitutes a series of coincidences – if that is what they are … in which even the slightest departure from the given values would spell the end of life, or, more exactly, create conditions under which life could never have evolved in the first place. If the neutron did not outweigh the proton in the nucleus of the atom, the active lifetime of the Sun and other stars would be reduced to a few hundred years; if the electric charge of electrons and protons did not balance precisely, all configurations of matter would be unstable and the universe would consist of nothing more than radiation and a relatively uniform mixture of gases … If the strong force that binds the particles of a nucleus were merely a fraction weaker than it is, deuteron could not exist and the stars such as the Sun could not shine. And if that force were slightly stronger than it is, the Sun and other active stars would inflate and perhaps explode … The values of the four universal forces (electromagnetism, gravity, and the nuclear strong and weak forces) were precisely such that life could evolve in the cosmos.”

    Professor Davies estimates that if – as some scientists maintain – there were no inherent guiding intelligence and cosmic evolution were governed only by the chance operation of strictly mechanical laws, “the time required to achieve the level of order we now meet in the universe by purely random processes is of the order of at least 10 to the power of 10 to the power of 80 years – inconceivably longer than the current age of the universe. Citing these calculations, Laszlo wryly observes, “Serendipity of this magnitude strains credibility,” and concludes, “Must we then face the possibility that the universe we witness is the result of purposeful design by an omnipotent master builder?”

    In addition, we found god’s existence in our world fifty-five years ago in the Higgs Boson, ‘the God particle,’ which scientists theorize has the ability to ‘end the universe.’ The Higgs Boson is an elementary particle in the Standard Model of particle physics that is continuously emitted by the quantum excitation of the Higg’s energy field, the field of god’s consciousness that holds our reality together. ‘The Higgs field is tied to the origin and fate of the universe.’ Quantum physics proves that reality is altered by our conscious perception of it; science calls this the ‘observation affect’ which shows that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality.’ Therefore, all reality is psychic; quantum energy is psyche or ‘soul’ energy; consciousness is the only thing that truly exists.

    God is, most basically, consciousness. God is best described as a prism, where a beam of white light (god) goes into the prism and bounces out in a rainbow (the colors being the multiple manifestations of god in material nature). In nature, god, manifests as balance and the cycle of birth-life-death-rebirth.

    Humanity must start acknowledging god’s existence. Science can no longer ignore its own research. We are responsible to something greater than us that encompasses and is all of us. Human beings, as we run our civilization, are responsible for making god suffer through every starving child, every bullied teenager, every bomb victim, every mutilated farm animal, every animal test subject, every bird who dies choking on plastic – all the unnecessary grief and pain we cause from phallogocentric global capitalism. We are responsible for the disrespect and misuse of the earth, the home god gave us. We are responsible for the world that we live in as it is us who create it. We must take after god and honor god’s most basic principles of balance/equality and compassion. We must start teaching our children that all reality and experience is sacred. Alfred North Whitehead saw god as inextricably bound up in the world process. He describes god as ‘the great companion, the fellow-sufferer, who understands.’ He states:

    ‘I affirm that God does suffer as he participates in the ongoing life of the society of being. His sharing in the world’s suffering is the supreme instance of knowing, accepting, and transforming in love the suffering which arises in the world. I am affirming the divine sensitivity. Without it, I can make no sense of the being of God.’ - Karen Armstrong, A History of God, page 384.

    What do you think?
     
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  2. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    I think that Yogananda does not know his science even if he is a spiritually wise renunciate.
     
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  3. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Ok, so it seems to this point that what you are saying is that an intelligence of some type is behind the universe.

    Where does all this come from? Maybe this intelligence doesn't care about human beings at all. Maybe there was such an intelligence which no longer exists. Even if one was to accept the likelihood of the existence of such an intelligence, doesn't mean man has any additional knowledge about the nature of this intelligence.
     
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  4. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    @bondwoman Welcome to the forums. (joke)My supreme God is @Revoltingest, but sometimes I pray to @PopeADope too.(/joke)

    I’ve learned from painful experience that I have to label my jokes, no matter how obvious they seem to me. :D
     
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  5. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I think your saying it is a "scientific fact"
    is funny.
     
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  6. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Welcome aboard.

    What kind of order exists in the deepest recesses of the atom and among the grandest collection of galaxies? In your own words, please.


    You do realize that the "IF" arguments are quite meaningless, don't you?



    If you are interested, I could show you that YOU existing is virtually impossible given the repeated one in a million chance of the right sperm impregnating the right ovum for the past 10 generations of your ancestors.

    Yet, apparently, here you are.

    Are the above words yours or are they copy and paste?

    God is best described as a prism, where a beam of white light (god) goes into the prism and bounces out in a rainbow (the colors being the multiple manifestations of god in material nature). In nature, god, manifests as balance and the cycle of birth-life-death-rebirth. [/quote]

    According to you. Others may disagree. Please present your evidence.

    I think it's very hard to try to figure out what parts of the above are your own words and what parts are copy/paste. Is that intentional?
     
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  7. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    Audie! I’ve missed you! From now on I’ll remember to put “science” in the title of my threads!
     
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  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    People are always giving us numbers to prove religious beliefs.
    But do they ever show their work? Nah.
    That would bring presumptions up for questioning.
     
  9. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    First, you are not entitled to conclude God is a "scientific fact" from the published opinions of a small group of scientists. The book "Evidence of Purpose" was not written by Davies. He contributed one of ten essays to it. The editor was John Marks Templeton, the creator of the Templeton Foundation.

    I have not read the book so cannot comment exactly on what Davies has to say, thought it sounds a bit like some variant of the "fine-tuning argument". I have come (with some regret, as practising Catholic) to the conclusion the fine-tuning argument is bogus.

    But the point is it is just one of several well-known arguments for the existence of God, which are not regarded as universally persuasive by any means. God remains a matter of personal belief.
     
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  10. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Relying on science as your metaphysics is like eating dirt for nourishment.

    real science dictates that as true.
    Bad science believes that as false. We might as well talk about turning lead to gold aka Newton, or how there is proof that DNA proves black people are inferior aka Watson. Scientists have many goofy ideas regardless of their training.
     
    #10 David T, Jun 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I was in HK for the past ten days.
     
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  12. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    That's saying a lot for a simple, "It's all in your mind".
     
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  13. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Brian Josephson, a Nobel prizewinner for something called the Josephson Effect re:quantum physics, is 80% sure that the theory of intelligent design has merit.

    He didn't explain why and I wouldn't have understood the explanation if he had given it. However, his comment was enough for me to open my mind to the possibility that ID might be more than just creationist baloney.
     
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  14. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Oh, that Josephson...
    Josephson said that Trinity College's tradition of interest in the paranormal meant that he did not dismiss these ideas out of hand.[40]Several presidents of the Society for Psychical Research had been fellows of Trinity, and the Perrott-Warrick Fund, set up in Trinity in 1937 to fund parapsychology research, is still administered by the college.[41] He continued to explore the idea that there is intelligence in nature, particularly after reading Fritjof Capra's The Tao of Physics (1975),[42] and in 1979 took up a more advanced form of TM, known as the TM-Sidhi program. According to Anderson, the TM movement produced a poster showing Josephson levitating several inches above the floor.[43] Josephson argued that meditation could lead to mystical and scientific insights, and that, as a result of it, he had come to believe in a creator.[44]
    If the opinion of a believer in Transcendental Meditation (TM) and levitation could sway you, you were probably already 90% of the way there.
     
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  15. seekingpeace

    seekingpeace New Member

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  16. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I think there is zero objective and verifiable evidence of any gods therefore god or gods are most certainly not cientific fact.

    Your op makes several leaps of faith in order to present a false premise.

    Welcome to RF.
     
  17. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Hope you enjoyed your trip
     
  18. seekingpeace

    seekingpeace New Member

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    Being brought up in a Christian home, I want to say the obvious based on my background, but I don't feel lead to comment with Bible verses anymore due to my doubt. This planet appears to be so unique and so intricate, that one has to wonder about a higher power at some point in their life, even if for a moment. The confusion for me is what is the truth regarding this higher power (HP); if it exists and what are our responsibilities to it. We do seem to have some form of internal moral compass I think, but if the HP exists does the HP truly care and if the HP does care, how does it react to injustice if at all. Heck, how is it reacting to us right now. I would love God to judge justly, but all I have heard all my life is justice is in God's hands and it's severe and horrifying in the Biblical sense. I want peace and what I have read all my life does not reflect that, it just seems to encourage fear and confusion and yes, some hatred. I would prefer to just be nice to people and hope the HP, if it exists appreciates the effort. Yes, perhaps simple and a bit weak, but not scary. Life is scary enough on it's own. Thank you for sharing something that is at least positive about God. In the mean time I will read more about what people have written.
     
  19. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware that Brian Josephson is an advocate for paranormal research in science. It happens that he and I were on the same side in a brief but interesting debate on the Psychology Today website. I realized from his remarks that he was a scientist but I had no idea of his credentials (Nobel physicist) until informed of it by a third party after the debate was over.

    I'm absolutely certain that telepathy and precognition exist from one experience with each. Josephson is quite right that mainstream science is biased against paranormal research which makes funding such projects difficult.

    Josephson is probably right that meditation could lead to scientific insights. I don't practice it but it may be a way to consciously gain access to the powerful unconscious.

    I've never read that Josephson believes in levitation or a creator. What's your source for this information? You're aware that because of the way it's compiled Wikipedia can't be trusted on controversial topics, aren't you?
     
    #19 joe1776, Jun 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  20. dmap

    dmap God is good and beautiful

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    From my experience studying various topics of science, most scientists assume materialism/physicalism. Thus, their science simply cannot prove God, by definition.

    Some scientists want to extend the scope of scientific inquiry to include the social sciences -- basically to include all knowledge, anything knowable. So for them, if they discover "God", they will simply think "it" is a part of the universe.

    For example, if they find evidence of intelligent design, they will postulate a teleological principle that guides matter.

    But God can only be discerned via philosophy. Revealed religions and revealed spiritual paths are untrustworthy sources of truth and knowledge.
     
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