-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The existance of GOD
- Thread starter hadeka
- Start date
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
It would depend on which philosophy, or better yet philosopher. Also, is it western or eastern philosophy? Metaphysics or logic? Be a little more specific in your question.
Nga_Believe
Member
Here's what I think about God in terms of my philosophy which has a lot of existentialist influences...
God exists. There are too many things in life and this world that can't be explained such as how the world and life were created etc. Therefore there must be a greater something at work that Christians choose to call "God."
God is dead. This is a phrase coined by an existentialist philosopher (I forget which one) and this simply means that although God exists, he is not present in our lives. We're on our own. God doesn't work miracles or answer our prayers. We're in this life to figure stuff out on our own. Our purpose in life isn't to worship God, be work towards getting into heaven. Our purpose in life is what we make it. We're on our own.
God exists. There are too many things in life and this world that can't be explained such as how the world and life were created etc. Therefore there must be a greater something at work that Christians choose to call "God."
God is dead. This is a phrase coined by an existentialist philosopher (I forget which one) and this simply means that although God exists, he is not present in our lives. We're on our own. God doesn't work miracles or answer our prayers. We're in this life to figure stuff out on our own. Our purpose in life isn't to worship God, be work towards getting into heaven. Our purpose in life is what we make it. We're on our own.
Linus
Well-Known Member
Nga_Believe said:
I agree.
Nga_Believe said:
I do not agree. I don't believe that God is dead to you unless you do not let Him into your life. God plays an active role in our lives by answering our prayers, forgiving us of our sins, and blessing us with all that we have in our lives. But that is just from my personal experience.
But it is hard to answer "yes" or "no" to this question. No one knows for sure if God exists because no one has proof that He does or doesn't. We can only say what we believe and give evidence.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
Well let's take some western philosophers, or linear philosophers... Plato, Yes: and existed in the realm of the forms. Descartes, yes: existed much like the idea of a traingle exists. Neitczche, Yes and No: God existed, but we killed him, he choked on pity for us. Thomas Acquinas, Yes: Of course he was a catholic. And alot of western philosophers believe not due to science and scientific proof that the bible is false and god is not necessary.
Now for some eastern philosophers. The biggest thing is you must not take western and eastern thought as completely compareable. Alot of the times they are like mirror images of each other. A buddhist would say no there are many gods but all are apart of one supreme god. But that god is not the same as the christian god. If you ask a taoist, they would say no, there is only Tao. Or the way of everything, the force that flows through everything and makes everything happen. But again, not the same as the christian idea of god. Shintoists, they have kami, sort of the same. Only can have many faces and identities.
I am a Taoist, I believe in the nature of everything and the force which binds everything. This is the Tao, no personal god. No supreme being with human characteristics. I hope that helped a little bit.
Now for some eastern philosophers. The biggest thing is you must not take western and eastern thought as completely compareable. Alot of the times they are like mirror images of each other. A buddhist would say no there are many gods but all are apart of one supreme god. But that god is not the same as the christian god. If you ask a taoist, they would say no, there is only Tao. Or the way of everything, the force that flows through everything and makes everything happen. But again, not the same as the christian idea of god. Shintoists, they have kami, sort of the same. Only can have many faces and identities.
I am a Taoist, I believe in the nature of everything and the force which binds everything. This is the Tao, no personal god. No supreme being with human characteristics. I hope that helped a little bit.
Pretty stupid theology. God wants us to grow toward spiritual perfection. He doesn't throw thousands of obstacles in our path to try to make us fail, but neither does he provide us with an easy way out. Life is a struggle, and it is a struggle for a reason, for its purpose is to help human-animals transform into true Humans. God set up the challenges in advance, made sure it would not be so hard that those strong enough to survive would fail, and then let us loose. It is our job to meet the challenges and overcome them, and to learn from them so that we might evolve spiritually. God isn't going to do this for us. We may not be as strong as God, but we are not as weak and in need of constant protection and interference as you seem to believe.
Linus
Well-Known Member
[quote="Muad'dib] Pretty stupid theology. [/quote]
First of all, I don't mind if you disagree with me, but please do not mock my beliefs. I do not mock yours.
[quote="Muad'dib] God wants us to grow toward spiritual perfection. He doesn't throw thousands of obstacles in our path to try to make us fail, but neither does he provide us with an easy way out. Life is a struggle, and it is a struggle for a reason, for its purpose is to help human-animals transform into true Humans. God set up the challenges in advance, made sure it would not be so hard that those strong enough to survive would fail, and then let us loose. It is our job to meet the challenges and overcome them, and to learn from them so that we might evolve spiritually. God isn't going to do this for us. [/quote]
Second of all, I don't know why you called my theology stupid when yours seems to agree with it perfectly. That statement is one of the central themes of Christianity. God created us, and God lets us do what we want. Throughout life we face our challenges, and if we overcome the obstacles and still keep our faith, we are rewarded.
[quote="Muad'dib]We may not be as strong as God, but we are not as weak and in need of constant protection and interference as you seem to believe.[/quote]
Third of all, I never said that we are in constant need of protection or interference. In fact God barely protects us at all. We are told that he will not allow us to be tempted beyond that which we cannot bear, but that is about all the "protection" we get. We are left to make our own decisions and learn from the bad ones we make. All I said was the he Forgives our sins (1 John 1:19), answers our prayers (Mark 11:24) and blesses us with all that we have (1 Corinthians 8:6).
First of all, I don't mind if you disagree with me, but please do not mock my beliefs. I do not mock yours.
[quote="Muad'dib] God wants us to grow toward spiritual perfection. He doesn't throw thousands of obstacles in our path to try to make us fail, but neither does he provide us with an easy way out. Life is a struggle, and it is a struggle for a reason, for its purpose is to help human-animals transform into true Humans. God set up the challenges in advance, made sure it would not be so hard that those strong enough to survive would fail, and then let us loose. It is our job to meet the challenges and overcome them, and to learn from them so that we might evolve spiritually. God isn't going to do this for us. [/quote]
Second of all, I don't know why you called my theology stupid when yours seems to agree with it perfectly. That statement is one of the central themes of Christianity. God created us, and God lets us do what we want. Throughout life we face our challenges, and if we overcome the obstacles and still keep our faith, we are rewarded.
[quote="Muad'dib]We may not be as strong as God, but we are not as weak and in need of constant protection and interference as you seem to believe.[/quote]
Third of all, I never said that we are in constant need of protection or interference. In fact God barely protects us at all. We are told that he will not allow us to be tempted beyond that which we cannot bear, but that is about all the "protection" we get. We are left to make our own decisions and learn from the bad ones we make. All I said was the he Forgives our sins (1 John 1:19), answers our prayers (Mark 11:24) and blesses us with all that we have (1 Corinthians 8:6).
Nga_Believe
Member
Linus, you say that God "blesses us with all that we have." I disagree and I'll tell you why. Everything that I have been "blessed" with I have because I've worked for it.
For example, I am going to be attending NYU in the fall which is a very expensive university. There is then in turn often talk of me being able to afford it because I am "blessed." I can afford it because both of my parents went to medical school and work 10 hour days five days a week.
Example 2: I am "blessed" because I'm healthy and I wasn't born with any disabilities. False. I'm healthy because I exercise and eat well. I wasn't born with any disabilities because it isn't in my genes, because my parents don't have any, because my mom didn't drink, smoke, or do drugs while she was pregnant.
We're told not to blame God for the things that go wrong in our life, so then why should we give him credit for the things that go right? Life isn't good or bad, it isn't full of blessings, life is just life, reality, the way that things are and God doesn't have anything to do with that. Therefore God is "dead."
For example, I am going to be attending NYU in the fall which is a very expensive university. There is then in turn often talk of me being able to afford it because I am "blessed." I can afford it because both of my parents went to medical school and work 10 hour days five days a week.
Example 2: I am "blessed" because I'm healthy and I wasn't born with any disabilities. False. I'm healthy because I exercise and eat well. I wasn't born with any disabilities because it isn't in my genes, because my parents don't have any, because my mom didn't drink, smoke, or do drugs while she was pregnant.
We're told not to blame God for the things that go wrong in our life, so then why should we give him credit for the things that go right? Life isn't good or bad, it isn't full of blessings, life is just life, reality, the way that things are and God doesn't have anything to do with that. Therefore God is "dead."
Linus
Well-Known Member
I understand what you mean, Nga_Believe. But when I say that God has blessed us I don't mean that He literally gives us stuff, I only mean that we have been blessed by God, being fortunate enought to own things.
The scripture I quoted supporting my statement (1 Cointhians 9:6) simply states, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
The emphasis being on the "from whom all things came" part. I guess I'm using this verse a little out of context, but I think the point still stands.
No worries. I believe all things come from God, directly or indirectly.
The scripture I quoted supporting my statement (1 Cointhians 9:6) simply states, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
The emphasis being on the "from whom all things came" part. I guess I'm using this verse a little out of context, but I think the point still stands.
No worries. I believe all things come from God, directly or indirectly.
Runt
Well-Known Member
Well, there are basically 3 basic philosophies about the existence of God (warning--this is VERY general):
1)Theist: there is definitely a God
-Monotheism: One God
-Polytheism: Many Gods
-Polytheistic Monotheism: Many Gods as manifestations of one greater God.
-Pantheism: God is Nature/Nature is God (with or without consciousness)
2)Agnostic: there may be a God, there may not
3)Atheist: there is no God
Personally, I am an acosmist (though I rarely use the term because few people know what it means). Acosmism basically holds that "God" is the universe (nature, the totality of all), and that all individual things in the universe are manifestations of this "God". I put God in quotations because although acosmism is usually defined as a kind of theism (pantheism, to be specific), I do not consider the theist notion of "God" (thinking entity controlling nature) and my Taoist acosmist notion of "Tao" (unthinking totality of nature and all its controlling factors) to be synonomous, so I hold that acosmism is technically atheism because it includes a notion of Universe, not God.
1)Theist: there is definitely a God
-Monotheism: One God
-Polytheism: Many Gods
-Polytheistic Monotheism: Many Gods as manifestations of one greater God.
-Pantheism: God is Nature/Nature is God (with or without consciousness)
2)Agnostic: there may be a God, there may not
3)Atheist: there is no God
Personally, I am an acosmist (though I rarely use the term because few people know what it means). Acosmism basically holds that "God" is the universe (nature, the totality of all), and that all individual things in the universe are manifestations of this "God". I put God in quotations because although acosmism is usually defined as a kind of theism (pantheism, to be specific), I do not consider the theist notion of "God" (thinking entity controlling nature) and my Taoist acosmist notion of "Tao" (unthinking totality of nature and all its controlling factors) to be synonomous, so I hold that acosmism is technically atheism because it includes a notion of Universe, not God.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
A very interesting post, Nga Beleive. What kind of philosophy is "God is dead"? The phrase was coined by Neiztche (sp) right?
What about cancer, malaria, and famines?Linus said:
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
I've heard many people use this argument, but you've gotta be careful with it and think it through. There are indeed many things in this life that cannot be explained, aka, which science doesn't have definate theories for. However, this doesn't mean that what is unknown to us today will remain unknown tomorrow. Back in the days of the ancient Egyptians, they didn't know why or how the Nile flooded, so they attributed it to their god Osiris. Today, this seasonal phenomenon can be rather simply explained using basic knowledge of weather patterns and tides.
Just because we don't have all the answers, doesn't mean they aren't there or that we have no chance in attaining them in the future. What will happen when the day comes where we know everything? Will god just disappear?
To say that god must exist because there are things we don't understand is a 'filling in the gaps' argument. As humans, we have the need to understand our environment and feel secure. Our need is filled by a belief in god, or rather a belief that everything is taken care of and right in the world. Just because we gain certain psychological benefits doesn't warrant the idea of god a spot on the shelf of reality, however.
Nga_Believe
Member
Spinkles, "God is dead" is existentialist and I'm pretty sure that its Nietzche.
Ceridwen, In a way I agree with you. I think that all too often people use God as a catch all to solve answerless question because they fear the unknown and this idea of God helps them to sleep at night. I think that to a large extent thats just being naive and ignorant, taking whats given to you rather than challenging it. However, I still think that there is something greater than science, that science can't prove everything and that while most things can be described with reason(see my previous post) there are somethings that can't, and I believe never will.
"What will happen when the day comes where we know everything? Will god just disappear? " -I also think that knowledge is infinite, we will never know everything because the world is always changing.
Ceridwen, In a way I agree with you. I think that all too often people use God as a catch all to solve answerless question because they fear the unknown and this idea of God helps them to sleep at night. I think that to a large extent thats just being naive and ignorant, taking whats given to you rather than challenging it. However, I still think that there is something greater than science, that science can't prove everything and that while most things can be described with reason(see my previous post) there are somethings that can't, and I believe never will.
"What will happen when the day comes where we know everything? Will god just disappear? " -I also think that knowledge is infinite, we will never know everything because the world is always changing.
Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
Nga_Believe said:
Well said. We are fathomless and that's why I like to stay open.
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Runt said:
I've never heard that term before, Acosmism. Very interesting, and very close to my beliefs (I believe there is a "higher power" or purpose, but I do not think of that which we generally call "God" as a deity that must be worshipped). How does Acosmism differ from Deism?
Runt
Well-Known Member
Maize said:
I don't claim to know much about Deism, but as far as I can tell Deists believe that a purposeful, conscious, thinking God created the universe in such a way that it could run without His/Its interference, then left it alone to do just that. Acosmism differs in that it doesn't differentiate between "God" and "universe"... and does not hold that God thinks or purposely created reality (that would essentially be saying that God created itself, for "God" IS reality).
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Acosmism sounds an awful lot like atheism...I am beginning to think that terms like 'acosmism' and 'scientific pantheism' were made up to avoid being called an atheist. 
If there is no God/Creator!? We just happened, He who has the most, when resources expire, wins!? You and I are SOOOO behind and there is not much likelyhood we'll catch up. So why bother?
There is a Creator, there is a reason for being. There will be an Olam Ha Bah/world to come.
There is a Creator, there is a reason for being. There will be an Olam Ha Bah/world to come.